Camping fees for Victorian National Parks

[Moondog55]

I wonder how long those signs will last?
Not that I advocate such vandalism of course but in over 30 years of walking and camping in that area I have never seen a ranger more than 50 metres from their vehicle. I have however met quite a few work crews doing maintenance on the tracks and clearing timber

[Lophophaps]

I wonder how long those signs will last?

There's a thought. Decades ago, probably in the mid-1970s or early 1980s, the managers put signs on the summits. These were not the subtle signs that are used in, say, Tassie, but were big, ugly and inappropriate. The signs had letters perhaps 150 mm deep on boards a metre or more in width, set on one or two treated pine posts. The one on Bogong had two posts and two boards. It is unclear why having toiled up Staircase a sign was needed. Perhaps the managers thought that the signs would help navigation. Bushwalker comments were scathing, especially from FVWC, aka VicWalk, aka Bushwalking Victoria. The signs fall into the same category as a proposal for an emergency hut under the Bogong summit cairn. I kid you not.

Within a few years and by individual actions, all the signs had disappeared. I was shown a picture of one such sign being tossed from Mt Magdala in the general direction of down. There was no report of a manager descending Hells Window to find it.

[neilmny]

Some articles - from http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewt ... =2&t=71484
Even the cyclists are gettibg cheesed off!
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/clampi ... 30hhb.html
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/unhap ... 2w0wf.html

[paidal_chalne_vala]

HI
I paid 30 clams( so did my fellow VNPA hikers ) to camp at Dibbins hut this weekend. The new "platforms" for tents are nowhere near Dibbin's hut. In Fact they are closer to Cobungra gap and past the new pit loo which is found near pole number 192 on the way to Cobungra gap.These platforms were hard to find and made a mockery of the back to nature concept of camping and hiking in the Vic Alps. We said stuff it! and camped by the hut where the picnic table is . The hut is good for shade from the burning summer sun and escaping the swarms of insects.

The sign at the "Dibbin's hut Campsite platforms" says you must book to use these steel and rock hard plastic monstrosities and that camping near them within 100 M without a permit is not allowed. Nowhere is there a sign saying no camping at the soft green and ant infested grass around the actual hut is forbidden. At the Mt Loch carpark there is a sign explaining the Hotham to Falls creek alpine crossing walk. Nowhere there does it say you must pay and book to camp along this route or shove off. In fact parks Vic. have done the bare minimum to tow the Govt.'s line and then gone back to trying manage the park and not act as tax collectors in the middle of nowhere , where it will cost more to enforce these camping fees than any revenue they might generate.

[Lophophaps]

Might it hence be that whilst the the irrational senior managers and/or government are saying one thing, the people that count - based at Bright and Mt Beauty - are following common sense? The best way to get rid of a bad law is usually to enforce it, and suffer the consequences. Sadly, in the alps this will mean that resources are diverted, compromising other more important management issues. A law that cannot be enforced is by definition a bad law. So maybe managers will in due course advise their bosses that the rules cannot be enforced. Maybe bushwalkers will simply camp elsewhere or not pay. Maybe word can be spread via clubs and logbooks of this.

[Moondog55]

Hmmm Might they be worth using in winter [ without paying naturally]

[paidal_chalne_vala]

These platforms are above the ground so in winter they could have their appeal if you are into x country skiing and pack hiking with snowshoes. IN general I will just feign ignorance about these bad laws for a few decades and carry on doing what I love. Taxes already paid to the ATO are for running these things . Next they will charge us to watch the sun rise or breathe the air at the beach.

[Lophophaps]

Taxes already paid to the ATO are for running these things . Next they will charge us to watch the sun rise or breathe the air at the beach.

Please be careful about even thinking of such things, let alone putting them in writing. You never know who is reading this discussion. My understanding is that the governments on the east coast are reviewing options for taxing sunrise, and WA is looking at taxing sunset. Tassie is looking at taxing sunrise and sunset. ACT, NT and SA miss out on sunrise and sunset, but are reviewing taxing air.

[cherryw]

[sim1oz]

[walkerchris77]

Good luck getting money out of me. If I walk in with my pack and nothing else how are they going to know who I am. I dont have any id on me. Lol

[Lophophaps]

I carry money and identification, but not much spare cash. Suppose you are at a remote (sort of) campsite and the ranger wants to charge you. Then you say nothing. What are they going to do, call in a helicopter? They can't force you to walk out. To do so may mean serious inconvenience, maybe even a false alarm due to the walker not reaching the road head. There may be health reasons for not following the ranger's directions. Does the law provide that you are required to provide your name and address?

Don't get me wrong. I greatly respect what Parks Victoria staff are doing on the ground. It's appalling that they have been placed in the position of enforcing these stupid laws.

The entire idea is badly designed and unworkable. But we knew that, didn't we?

[north-north-west]

[color=#000000]Does the law provide that you are required to provide your name and address?

I would have thought that a Ranger within a National Park would have similar status to official Law Enforcement personnel (ie, Police) and, thus, similar powers.
Track Rangers on the OT have the power to insist on permitless walkers returning to their access point.

[Earwig]

Fees from July 1. Details here

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/forestry-and ... ation-fees

[Moondog55]

Actually I think the law does require you to give your name and address when requested by Parks officials.
I'd be happy to pay it if it meant a hot shower at the end of each day tho, the fee structure as advised is so out of touch with reality that I think they are just looking for an excuse to sell off the land to private enterprise, no surprise there at all.

[tastrax]

In Tasmania It comes down to being found offending (ie failure to pay fees, failure to follow directions of a sign etc etc) and from there it can get quite technical down to the officer having the ability to arrest without warrant

National Parks and Reserves Management Act 2002 (No. 62 of 2002)
Requested: 24 Feb 2014
Consolidated as at: 24 Feb 2014

66. Powers of arrest

An authorised officer may arrest, without warrant, any person found offending who –

(a) fails or refuses, on demand, to give his or her full name and residential address; or

(b) gives any name or residential address that the officer has reasonable grounds for believing is false; or

(c) does not deliver up to that officer, on demand, any thing in his or her possession, or under his or her control, that the officer is entitled to seize under this Act.

[sambar358]

I understand that the VIC NP Fees RIS had in excess of 6000 submissions (and I would expect not too many of those in favour of the new fee structure) and as a result of that it seems that the Govt has posponed the introduction of these new NP camping fees that were due to commence March 1st until July 1st 2014 and some concessions to the original RIS seem to be in the air. So maybe a win here to some degree but time will tell I guess. The link to the anouncement is below. Cheers

s358

http://www.depi.vic.gov.au/forestry-and ... ation-fees

[neilmny]

It will be closer to the elections and probably buried under all the rest of the election hype
and haven't we already paid our parks levy in our 2013/2014 rates which takes us to 30 June 2014 anyway?

[vicpres]

I was advised by a reliable and authoritative source that around 60% of the submissions were from the four wheel drive fraternity using a 'form' submission and were pretty much considered to be a single submission. The 'real' test was to see what level of public (i.e. media) interest and reaction there was to the proposal. As it was only covered in the media, including letters in the papers, for around 2 days, the assessment was that most people weren't too fussed, and certainly not fussed enough to kick up a noise. Bushwalking Victoria asked its 70 member clubs to become involved, including making their thoughts know to us. Only a very small handful could be bothered.

Despite what sambar358 assumed, almost all the comments I have seen on the RIS and indeed many of the submissions were accepting, even supportive of paying for the use and maintenance of facilities. What is not supported by anyone is paying where no facilities or services are provided.

The main reason for delaying the introduction of the fees is due to lobbying by licensed tour operators and camp operators, particularly those that service schools.

As far as the parks levy is concerned, as far as I know/have been able to determine, the levy is only paid by ratepayers in the greater Melbourne area and is used only for metropolitan parks managed by Parks Victoria.

[Moondog55]

I What is not supported by anyone is paying where no facilities or services are provided.

.

My point exactly and generally there are no facillities

[sim1oz]

Will there be anywhere left in Victoria to camp for free?

[Travis22]

Crown land / State forests.

Travis.

[icefest]

Even in the United States you do not need to pay if you are using no services. :/

[Earwig]

:( Will there be anywhere left in Victoria to camp for free?

No.

Travis replied above that State Forest will remain free. While he is correct, the RIS did say that fees will be extended to State forest and other areas so, eventually, fees will apply to all bush camping in Victoria.

[north-north-west]

There are about 680 campgrounds in Victoria's parks and reserves, costing significant public funds to maintain and operate each year. These costs need to be recovered so that Victoria can continue to provide great visitor experiences in nature, with safe, modern campgrounds and facilities.

Now, if this is all they really mean to charge for, it's not entirely unwarranted nor unreasonable. But I wish them luck in trying to charge people for bushcamping when they're out walking. Will they try to hit up AAWT through-walkers with fees for each night they spend en route in Victoria?

[neilmny]

Well have a look at this lot - http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... hedule.pdf

[stry]

There are about 680 campgrounds in Victoria's parks and reserves, costing significant public funds to maintain and operate each year. These costs need to be recovered so that Victoria can continue to provide great visitor experiences in nature, with safe, modern campgrounds and facilities.

Now, if this is all they really mean to charge for, it's not entirely unwarranted nor unreasonable. But I wish them luck in trying to charge people for bushcamping when they're out walking. Will they try to hit up AAWT through-walkers with fees for each night they spend en route in Victoria?

I'm not trying to encourage the revenuers NNW but the obvious progression is a car pass. Find a car without a sticker and Gotcha. They are never going to find walkers/hunters whatever who are carrying a pack and camping in the bush.

[overlandnoob]

Well have a look at this lot - http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets ... hedule.pdf

Ridiculous. Even the OT is free in the off-season - here we'll get a generous 10% discount!! The 10% discount for concessions (not even including students) is surely taking the ****...

Some of this stuff is beyond belief - how exactly do we think they calculate the cost of each kayak down a river ($10, apparently)? As far as I'm aware they don't use the toilet or wear down the roads. How long before they try to charge me for paddling on the Yarra in Fairfield...?

[neilmny]

It's voting time in November.

[sim1oz]

An extra voter in our house this coming state election!