Cattle in the Alpine National Park

[north-north-west]

you argue well NNW, but when you see how much other damage has been done by people ( SECV : Forests Commission and clear fell logging: Skiing with all of its associated roads, hotels, sewerage farms to service the hotels and ski lodges) the little extra done by a few cattle is nothing much.

There is x amount of damage done by current usage of the NP, let's make it worse by letting people graze their cattle up there?
Fine. And then we can cut down a few trees. And dig up a bit of gold. And plant a few acres of wheat. And drive our ATVs anywhere we want. And never mind digging catholes when we need to have a dump. After all, each extra bit of damage is only one teensy weensy little bit of extra damage. Not like it all adds up, . . .
Cattle do not do 'a little' damage. They do a lot. There is plenty of scientific research that supports that. Maybe you should read a bit of it.

I'd rather shoot the idiots that planted South American privet on Bogong or deliberately released foxes in Tasmania than worry about a few cows that fill the ecological niche left by the extinction of the indigenous mega fauna like Zygomaturus as recently as 14000 BWM

Oh dear. It's a wonder that the alpine and sub-alpine ecosystems managed to survive at all once the mega fauna disappeared. And cattle are exactly the same sort of animals, too - with the same eating habits and all.

[Moondog55]

Considering it's only been in existence for 11000 years you mean??

The Alpine area will suffer far more from a rise in global temperature than from a few cattle and we stand to loose far more of the ecosystem to the dams we will have to put in if we keep getting a bigger population, I would rather a thousand cattle than a hydro dam filling Pretty Valley with water.

[Mog]

Walk in ungrazed area, and it's pristine. It's beautiful, and populated with plants that are slow growing and evolved for that particular altitude and geography. It's an immersion into something unique, and a major strength of the area.

Cross into a part that's had cattle through it. The difference is noticeable. There's weeds and grass sprouting everywhere that you recognise from the suburbs. There's blackberries laying claim to creeks. The indigenous plants, with their subtle coloring, stunted forms and habit of growing slowly and meticulously between snows, are being pushed back and out-competed by these more aggressive, introduced plants.

And the introduced plants are starting with a huge advantage: their seeds are hitting the ground packed in an envelope of cattle manure. They're getting a nutritional head start that's just not found in the soil in that area. Alpine plants are a result of completely different circumstances.

Nobody's saying choose between cattle and a dam. Nobody's suggesting that there's not other introduced problems. If we remove cattle, we stop feeding the onslaught of these aggressive plants that are taking out a very important part of something we all love and appreciate enough to write here about.

[photohiker]

The Alpine area will suffer far more from a rise in global temperature than from a few cattle

So why would we propose to add these impacts together? These are additive, not either/or?

[cdg]

i have come across (many years ago) cattle grazing while hiking in the Alpine areas. it was quite strange. the cows seem fairly nonplussed. i took the time to stop, have a cuppa and observe them. it was most relaxing. there seemed to be more flies around than normal, from memory, but at least they werent biting.

i think that in certain sensitive areas, perhaps cattle shouldnt be allowed, but there is plenty of room up there for man, nature and beast to co-exist. much of the appeal of the high country is its heritage, and that heritage includes cattle, cattlemen and horses.

and hikers.

deer are another thing. visit scotland - know why the highland is green grass? because the deer have eaten everything! trees cant grow when deer are around. i reckon that since the gun buy back ferals of all species have grown in numbers. i dont think shooters can really keep them under control, so perhaps another method like calici virus is required.

[photohiker]

visit scotland - know why the highland is green grass? because the deer have eaten everything! trees cant grow when deer are around.

Actually, this is one of the reasons the trees have failed to regrow. The reason the trees are no longer there is that they were cut down by man. Mature forest is far more resistant to deer than new shoots. You're right though, deer don't belong there either, and both deer and cattle can be pleasant to watch grazing. Unfortunately viewing pleasure is not a good measure of environmental impact...

[JohnM]

Man, I member the bad old days of walking in the Vic Alps in summer after cattle grazing season. The masses of cow pats would attract so many flies, your pack would be a teeming mass of black all day long. Disgusting.

Still, the bumper sticker says "mountain cattlemen care for the high country" so I guess it must be true. But I never could quite figure out exactly what sort of "caring" went on. Building huts, driving cattle, making tracks... Perhaps it was more about "taming" than caring for the high country.

I'm surprised anyone outside the graziers themselves think this is a good idea.

[Moondog55]

Actually Scotland highlands are tree free not because of the deer but because of sheep, sheep are low grazers and bite very close to the ground.
The highland forests were cleared by English landholders and the residents moved to unproductive and on the coast. It was the sheep eating the small growth that kept the Scottish Highlands tree free after that. Given a choice deer like to browse. The same thing happened in Europe, the high meadows were kept tree free by the practice of driving sheep and goats to the Alpine meadows in summer and as the sheep grazed over many generations; the tree line moved down hill and the high meadow areas became larger, feedback ensured these larger meadows allowed more sheep to graze and the alpine meadow areas enlarged.
This was followed by a vicious cycle of avalanches and ever fewer trees, only now with the erection of the first avalanche fences about 120 years ago are the high forests returning

[photohiker]

Actually Scotland highlands are tree free not because of the deer but because of sheep,

Yes, that is a part of the history, but deer are a large part of the recent history and present:

Larger mammals found in the pinewoods include the wildcat (Felis silvestris), badger (Meles meles), fox (Vulpes vulpes), roe deer (Capreolus capreolus) and red deer (Cervus elaphus). Both roe and red deer browse on Scots pine seedlings, eating the needles and leader shoot of young trees, and the overgrazing pressure from their expanded numbers in the last 150 years has prevented the natural regeneration of the native pinewoods throughout the Highlands. Red deer also damage or kill sapling Scots pines by de-barking or thrashing them with their antlers, particularly in late spring when the new season's antlers are shedding their velvet. In a natural, healthy forest ecosystem, the deer numbers would be in balance with the regenerating trees in the forest, but the imbalance in our pinewoods has created a 'generation gap' in the Scots pines, with no trees younger than 150 years in most locations, until fencing or intensive deer-culling measures were initiated in the last 10-20 years.

From here



Rats with antlers. Shoot em.

[Moondog55]

Very interesting link, thanx for that.
They were just starting the re-afforestation project in the Cairngorms when I was there, the deer numbers must have exploded since the 1970s. Hunting deer was very expensive in those times and only wealthy people and landholders could afford to shoot and hunt

[photohiker]

Still is, I think.

Queenie apparently likes to take the head shot on a 12 point stag.

This was told to me after more than several highland malts, so it could be fiction but it sounded plausible at the time...

[Moondog55]

I heard the same story when I was there

[PeterJ]

If you live in a place where are no cattle in the high country then you find it hard to believe anyone would want them there.

[photohiker]

Its official: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-31/a ... nt/3802440

Alpine grazing by cattle will be banned in the Victorian high country, Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke has announced.

The Victorian Government introduced about 400 cattle to the Alpine National Park in January last year to fulfil an election promise.

It was part of a six-year trial to see if grazing reduced bushfires.

But Mr Burke says the trial is "clearly unacceptable" under national environmental law and will not proceed.

[anne3]

Great news !!!

[dplanet]

Just been to this thread and no time to go through the thread and here is my viewpoint as a bush walker experienced seriously with water finding while out there. Please please try as much as you can, keep the cattle away from water courses, creeks, rivers, lakes, and walking tracks and walk-in camp sites.

[andrewp]

With the change of Federal Government, it's back on again. The Vic government wants to do another 'scientific trial' to see if cattle reduce bushfires. They made a request to the Commonwealth Government last Nov. The Commonwealth Government has just made a decision that the project requires approval under the EPBC act before it can proceed.

So if you want to help keep cattle out of the Alpine National Park I suggest that you make a submission. There isn't much time. Submissions are required by 25 Feb. You should send it to:
wv.trial@depi.vic.gov.au

You can find all the official documents here:
http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/epbc/epbc_ap.pl?name=current_referral_detail&proposal_id=7069

In making the request for the trial, the Vic government has decided to ignore exisiting research done by the likes of the CSIRO and rely on the evidence of the Cattlemen Association (because they must know better and of course they're not an interested party).

The VNPA website has further information and help you with ideas for making a submission.
http://vnpa.org.au/page/nature-conservation/parks-protection/alpine-cattle-grazing-%E2%80%93-it%E2%80%99s-a-park,-not-a-paddock

Here is the notice about making a submission.

[north-north-west]

Well, butter me on both sides and colour me stonkered - who woulda thunk it?

[Jaala]

Ugh. Just ugh. Why they insist on doing things like this I'll never understand. I for one will make a submission.

[cherryw]

Looks like they now have the green light for this farce.

[url]http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/greg-hunt-approves-victorian-alpine-national-park-cattle-grazing-trial-20140306-348do.html
[/url]

[Jaala]

Mmm. I just saw this on the news also.

[north-north-west]

The Napthine government has pursued the trial saying it is necessary to test whether grazing reduces the risk of bushfires by removing fuel loads.

Oh, right!
"We had cattle grazing last summer and the place didn't burn - see, it works!"
How totally unscientific and illogical. There have been major fires while cattle grazing was permitted, and while it wasn't. Putting the cattle in there isn't going to prove anything one way or the other. Farcical. Stupid.

[neilmny]

They plan to charge someting like $18.00 per night for us to dispersed camp in the Alpine National park, I hope they charge the cattle owners the same per head per night
for the total time they dispersed "camp" there. They will be using the same facilities as we do .... ie. None because there isn't any!

[bigkev]

They plan to charge someting like $18.00 per night for us to dispersed camp in the Alpine National park, I hope they charge the cattle owners the same per head per night
for the total time they dispersed "camp" there. They will be using the same facilities as we do .... ie. None because there isn't any!

+1

[cherryw]

There back!!!
http://www.theage.com.au/environment/cattle-return-to-alpine-national-park-20140320-355tc.html
60 for the first year and then up to 300 each year for the next two years.

[Stew63]

I was up at King Hut today and there were also cattle there - within the Alpine National Park.
The cattle were all black and had newish green ear tags. I thought the cattle 'sample' was in the Wonnangatta only?

Also saw 2 wild dogs and 2 cats in various parts of the National Park - Upper Howqua/Bluff area

[andrewp]

I believe King Hut is in State Park/Forest. The Alpine NP starts east of the King River. There have always been cattle along the King River around here. It's nothing to do with the trial. They make a real mess along the banks. Walk further up the King River to where the cattle can't get to and it's pristine again. Just goes to show what damage they do.

[vicpres]

They plan to charge someting like $18.00 per night for us to dispersed camp in the Alpine National park, I hope they charge the cattle owners the same per head per night
for the total time they dispersed "camp" there. They will be using the same facilities as we do .... ie. None because there isn't any!

+1

It's a trial, so actually the cattlemen concerned will be getting paid to have their cattle there.

[icefest]

It's a trial, so actually the cattlemen concerned will be getting paid to have their cattle there.

Oh wow. We are paying for the privilege of sharing campsites with cows.

[Lophophaps]

They plan to charge something like $18.00 per night for us to dispersed camp in the Alpine National park, I hope they charge the cattle owners the same per head per night for the total time they dispersed "camp" there. They will be using the same facilities as we do .... ie. None because there isn't any!

An excellent observation. Conservation interests such as ACF, VNPA, TWS and many others need to make the link to costs. If a government has poor economic credentials then the electorate will tend to vote against them. Mr Negative Abbott had this perfected. Keep the message short, sharp and consistent. Stop the boats. Big tax. Cattle cost. Keep citing the economic reasons, big dollars, big picture. Forget the detail. Say something like "Cattle will cost the taxpayer $2 million." Most people do not care about endangered species; the quality, quality and timing or water; the utter inappropriateness of cattle or logging or mining. Voters and politicians can see simple clear messages relating to money and economic management. If we all sent one email or letter every other week it would work far better than pleading the likely demise of the lesser known hooded tree climber. (Never been seen)