Anyone Interested in Packraft Training ?

[Dale]

[update 1st Oct - interest registered from 14 people. I have PM'ed everyone who expressed interest and we'll take this to email to figure out dates etc...]


This is for any packrafters, or for those that want to try packrafting and would like specialised training on safety and technique.

Jim Gonski of the Alaska Kayak Academy is up for coming to Oz later this year to run packrafting skills and safety workshops. Jim proposes to run a two day workshop similar to the Packraft River Safety course detailed on his website.

The course would include:
• Flat water paddling techniques, flipping and re-entry
• Eddy turns , locating eddies and how to progress to smaller eddies on Class II water
• Approaching / avoiding strainers
• River swimming / throw bag work
• Self rescue techniques
• How to run Class III water - how to scout, boat scout, run holes, ferry in fast current, catch micro eddies, surf and perfect "spin on a dime" eddy turns.

Logistics

To be commercially viable we’d need a minimum of 25 participants all up, this could be two weekends – maybe one in NSW and the other in VIC (???), with 12 or so people for each weekend. Alternatively if you have around 10 people in your state interested then we could always put it to Jim. I'm not sure of where all the Australian packrafters are

Location / Cost

For NSW the Shoalhaven would be good geographically. Open to feedback and suggestions on location.

Jim reckons that in order to fund himself and another instructor and cover expenses the course would need to be $300 / participant for the weekend.

Timing is around mid – November to mid - December 2012, assuming we get numbers.

Next Steps

If you’re interested then either reply to this thread or email Jim directly: jim (at) kayakcenterak (dot) com Jim may not reply straight away as he could be out rafting or wrestling Moose.

If you have ideas on locations with suitable rivers and reliable water please post.

Once there is enough commitment on numbers and we have location(s) we can tie down dates etc...

Should be a fun course !

PS - this is also under discussion on the packrafting forums.

(Disclaimer: I have no commercial affiliation or interest, although I do expect Jim to buy me a beer if we manage to get him down here )

[SteveJ]

Great work Dale, I hope there is more support for this training, it is so needed in Australia as packrafting becomes more mainstream. The outdoor adventure community are begining to realise the awsome potential of these amazing little rafts for multi sport adventure, but as with all adventure sports it has dangers associated with it and needs to be done safely.

Steve

[Wollemi]

This is for any packrafters, or for those that want to try packrafting and would like specialised training on safety and technique.

The course would include:
• Flat water paddling techniques, flipping and re-entry
• Eddy turns , locating eddies and how to progress to smaller eddies on Class II water
• Approaching / avoiding strainers
• River swimming / throw bag work
• Self rescue techniques
• How to run Class III water - how to scout, boat scout, run holes, ferry in fast current, catch micro eddies, surf and perfect "spin on a dime" eddy turns.

Approaching / avoiding strainers - Some things cannot wait - simply make certain your craft is inflated correctly out on the water. An NDE happened when a pack-raft folded and trapped a person in a strainer a little while back up on the Colo. The craft had been deflated a little by the user while having lunch on a warm beach, then not re-inflated to a taut skin, which they should have been aware of. (From Pers. Comms with that person)

For NSW the Shoalhaven would be good geographically. Open to feedback and suggestions on location.

If you have ideas on locations with suitable rivers and reliable water please post.

Somewhat reluctant to promote the place, yet Penrith White-water Stadium may run their pumps just for this course should their be enough pack-rafters. Consider contacting them.

[Tassiedevil]

Hi Dale, I have tried to reply twice so ignore this if you have received this . I am interested in the course depending when and where. I live in Tassie.
Shane

[Dale]

Great work Dale, I hope there is more support for this training, it is so needed in Australia as packrafting becomes more mainstream. The outdoor adventure community are begining to realise the awsome potential of these amazing little rafts for multi sport adventure, but as with all adventure sports it has dangers associated with it and needs to be done safely.

Steve

Cheers Steve - here's to getting the numbers and having a great time

Approaching / avoiding strainers - Some things cannot wait - simply make certain your craft is inflated correctly out on the water. An NDE happened when a pack-raft folded and trapped a person in a strainer a little while back up on the Colo. The craft had been deflated a little by the user while having lunch on a warm beach, then not re-inflated to a taut skin, which they should have been aware of. (From Pers. Comms with that person)

I'd heard about that incident Wollemi but have certainly never spoken to the person involved. Interesting to know that inflation played a part.

Somewhat reluctant to promote the place, yet Penrith White-water Stadium may run their pumps just for this course should their be enough pack-rafters. Consider contacting them.

A few of us have had a shot at approaching Penrith about packrafting and have been repelled at the gates The Manager told me that he recommends against packrafts any chance he gets. Having said that - money can talk, and a controlled environment would be very attractive.

Hi Dale, I have tried to reply twice so ignore this if you have received this . I am interested in the course depending when and where. I live in Tassie.
Shane

Shane noted - watch this thread for location updates !

[SteveJ]

Here is the lengthy discusion re Penrith from the Packrafting forum. I have also contacted them with very negative response.

http://packrafting.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=524

It ain't gonna happen there.

[justacouch]

I'd be interested in the NSW course, especially if the timing was early 2013. I'll keep an eye on this thread.

[Dale]

Time for an update.

About 10 people have registered interest and Jim is up for coming over for one course but it would be him and no assistant.

We'll see what final numbers are towards the end of Sept and make a call on timing and location.

[andrewa]

" packraft training".......???

I know this is going to irritate some, but I don't understand why we need it. Do we really need "bushwalking/ski touring/mountain bike, etc" training??

I bought a packraft in 2006 - which I think was one of the earlier ones to Melb. I chucked it in the Yarra, had a float, took it to NZ, did some exciting stuff, and have continued to do so. No training. Just got out and used it, (with no kayak experience). Still alive, and enjoying rafting. Do I need someone to tell me how to fall out of a raft. No. Getting in again. Try it in a pool. Chucking a throw bag. No.

Just do it

I'm sorry. I just think we're all getting a bit anal about these sort of things, and it's a bit of an Americanism to need training before you use an item.

Maybe it's me - a very much DIY person, who is very happy to share my experiences with anyone wanting info about anything to do with Packrafting, But I just don't get the "training" concept in this situation....rolling a kayak, perhaps...

Beyond this, I think any group trip is a great idea, but more formal than that is a bit too serious.

With the current exchange rate ( compared with the 2:1 when I bought my first raft), potential users just need to accept that packrafts are serious fun, and get out there and lay down the dosh, and enjoy the extension of trip planning.

A



A

[SteveJ]

Andrew, your post scares me a bit but it does represent an attitude that I have heard from a few packrafters. I thought the same until I came extremely close to drowning myself in what I perceived at the time as a fun piece of water. I came out of my boat doing a high volume drop and was trapped under water in a hydraulic with my packraft being sucked down on top of me, I was under water for over minute, cracked my helmet on the bottom and only just managed to get myself out of what was a dire situation.....and that was just one of several misadventures, I could write a list of them all.... Having meet and talked to a big range of different packrafters (over 20), I can say that many have had 'near misses' in regard to near drownings. There was a packraft drowning in Australia about 6 months ago when a woman’s raft folded on a stopper trapping her underwater, she was very luckily rescued, revived and survived, a credit to those well trained people with her who had kayaking background I believe. There are many many dangers in white-water and they are not always apparent, especially to the untrained eye. I believe that packrafters can feel very overconfident and easily get into very dangerous situations, they are very reassuring boats and a false sense of security can led to people attempting grades beyond their ability, I am guilty of this myself having paddled water well beyond my ability, this comes with pushing boundries as many rafters are now doing. The white water rescue training that we ran on the Thredbo was a real eye opener for me (and the other dozen packrafters that attended) I never realised what a danger to myself I was, it taught me caution and may have saved my life. It's all fun until someone gets hurt....I am not convinced I would paddle with untrained paddlers again.

Steve

[DarrenM]

I'm one of those types Andrew and I hear you. There are those who like to surround themselves with all sorts of gear and training and stick well within their comfort zone. Then there are those who just get out and do it and give it a nudge. It's a difference in genes and risk acceptance, and not necessarily a foolhardy approach in all cases.

But I'm with Steve on this one and as someone that has broken bones while packrafting and had some near misses, a little training wouldn't hurt. I'm not big on the group activity thing but had a great time learning a few extra bits and pieces on the Thredbo training weekend. It was the rescue stuff that had me thinking more. So much can go wrong and those who are less experienced need something if they aren't out paddling regularly.

I hope you guys get the numbers.

[Dale]

With the locations of those that have expressed interest, the NSW snowy mountains is looking about the best for water and access.

I'll PM everyone that's inquired regarding next steps.

[climberman]

Dale, have PM'd you.

[hightower]

Hi guys,

Just back from overseas holiday and saw this. I've only had my packraft a short time so interested. Couple of questions though...

- What's the latest in terms of dates when it might be held? So I can suss out my calendar.
- Do we need some sort of wet suit / dry suit? Are they easy to hire from places?

Cheers

[Nuts]

I assume this guy has the relevant accreditation and insurances (here...)

Either way, you guys and other incidents mentioned on here suggest some training is definitely needed. Flat water (basic skills - canoe Australia) kayak or approaching a rafting company (ragin thunder? sorry not up to date for nsw) may be cheaper with local knowledge ongoing... ? I would bet there would be a local rafting guide well able to do informal training at that level and all kosher?

I do agree with the gadget/formal training part being only a Very basic start, potential trap. A step up from 'no' training but at the end of the day rivers are very dangerous. I have previous WW /sea kayak to instructor level, but only played around with my rafts so far. tbh I have never found anything fun about class 3+ (while in it) perhaps because i take the risk too? seriously, especially where others are following.

[Dale]

Hi guys,

Just back from overseas holiday and saw this. I've only had my packraft a short time so interested. Couple of questions though...

- What's the latest in terms of dates when it might be held? So I can suss out my calendar.
- Do we need some sort of wet suit / dry suit? Are they easy to hire from places?

Cheers

Hightower - starting to figure out dates. I'll PM you today.

I noticed Jim hires drysuits, so could ask him to bring some over for the course.

[Nuts]

I belive he will also need a concession for any public waterway, public liability insurance and a business license to take any payment. Would you like me to ask around the relevant authorities? There are a host of requirements in place to maintain professional standards that we all abide by.

So my question again Dale, have you approached local training providers? I doubt your man would even qualify for sponsorship without local accreditation but it may be one avenue to do things properly.

[Dale]

So my question again Dale, have you approached local training providers? I doubt your man would even qualify for sponsorship without local accreditation but it may be one avenue to do things properly.

There are no local training providers for packrafting. If they do exist then they're keeping a very low profile. Yes there are providers for swift water safety courses and whitewater but no-one who is packraft specific. Hence the appeal of Jim Gonski.

Thanks for the offer to ask around regarding compliance, however one of the rafters is already doing this.

[Dale]

Date update - end of Nov or first two weekends in Dec are looking the most likely. Location is Snowy's NSW.

[Dale]

8th / 9th Dec is set for training at the Snowy's with the possibility of anther course 24th / 25th Nov if numbers are sufficient. Should be a fun time !

[SteveJ]

Good work on getting this up Dale, I am really looking forward to it.

[Dale]

Cheers Steve ! 8/9 Dec class looking fairly full. 15/16 Dec potential fr a second class?