What should you do if...

[davidm]

I had my first solo overnighter a few days back and wanted to get advice about a few things. So...

What should you do if you lose the track?
I walked from Blackheath to blue gum forest, and at Beauchamp Falls there had been a landslide (quite a few years ago I think) which had totally covered the track.
I knew the track basically followed the creek down, but I didn't really want to just start following the creek in the hope that I saw the track later on and potentially get myself more lost.
In the end it wasn't a big deal, I dumped my pack and wandered around for a bit before I found it, then went back and got my gear. But it did make me wonder what the best thing to do is if you get lost. Keep moving? Try and backtrack?

What do you do if you're on a schedule you won't be able to make?
I was finishing my walk on Friday, which was forecast to reach 33deg by late arvo in the Blue Mountains, but in fact hit 44 deg by min morning! I managed to keep to my schedule and get back on time, but again it made me wonder. It was a *&%$#! hard slog getting up out of the valley in that heat and I was very tempted to wait out the heat and stay another day. But I had lodged my trip intention and didn't want my wife to get freaked out when I didn't come home that night. So how do you get around this? Should you

Running out of water - to drink untreated or not?
I ran into a couple of German backpackers who had taken 5L of water for 3 days between them and had no purification
They told me they realised they were going to be short (especially given the unexpected heat and the fact they had their ENTIRE luggage for their 6 month holiday with them - 30kg each!!!), and asked if i thought they were better off drinking the water untreated, or just rationing. I didn't know what to tell them. What would you do?
I guess if I was them I would probably have broken the fire ban and boiled water? I dunno.

There were a few other questions I had which I was going to try and remember to post here, but they've slipped my mind! If I remember I'll post again.

Cheers in advance!

[wayno]

What should you do if you lose the track?
all comes down to how experienced you are or arent. if you're a novice, and your navigation skills are minimal you might have a quick look for the track, but you shouldnt stray too far from where you know the track is, and dont ditch your gear if you are going to loose site of it looking for the track...
if you're more experienced and you are able to establish your direction as you move around, yeah you'd have a bigger go at finding the track and pushing on, also depends on your familiarity with the area... and how treacherous the terrain is.

What do you do if you're on a schedule you won't be able to make?
far better your wife worries when you're late than you expiring in the heat, wait it out if it looks touch and go for you being able to cope.. plenty of people would have come off worse trying to persist in those temps.
being a kiwi, i';ve already wilted by the time the thermometer gets into the thirties.... i doubt i'd move anywhere at 40 degrees.

Running out of water - to drink untreated or not?
depends just how dehydrated they are, better to drink untreated water on the whole than suffer severe dehydration, the hotter it is, the harder it is to avoid heat stroke, and heat stress when you're dehydrated, at least use untreated water to wet your skin to help reduce sweating...

[ryantmalone]

What should you do if you lose the track?

Depends on where the track is. Is it following a spur crest? A river? A gully?

I will always locate myself on a map using a compas, landmarks, and so on, and that will give me an idea of where to look for the track. If I am confident of my location and ability to find the track again, I'll go hunting for it, that said, if I am not confident in my ability to backtrack, I will not.

A good contour map can tell you a hell of a lot about where you are.

A good example - in the late 80's, we got lost descending Helicopter Spur. Ended up heading into a deep gully too far left when descending. When we got to the bottom of the gully, we couldn't go back up. We were confident enough in our navigation skills though, so we were able to locate where we were, and where we needed to go to get back to a track. Even though it was the most painful few hours of my life in scrub that would put the best Tasmania has to offer to shame, we were able to use our nav skills to find a way out.

What do you do if you're on a schedule you won't be able to make?
I was finishing my walk on Friday, which was forecast to reach 33deg by late arvo in the Blue Mountains, but in fact hit 44 deg by min morning! I managed to keep to my schedule and get back on time, but again it made me wonder. It was a *&%$#! hard slog getting up out of the valley in that heat and I was very tempted to wait out the heat and stay another day. But I had lodged my trip intention and didn't want my wife to get freaked out when I didn't come home that night. So how do you get around this? Should you

I always pack extra food for a day or two on longer hikes, and always say that if I am not back/made contact by 9pm on the night that I am due back, to notify police, but also notify that I am self sufficient for x days.

If I have not made contact by 9pm the following day, then thats when it gets serious.

There is always a chance that a walk may last longer than you think. If youre unfamiliar with the terrain, using a locator beacon may help as well, as it might help distinguish between being lost or being late.

Running out of water - to drink untreated or not?
I ran into a couple of German backpackers who had taken 5L of water for 3 days between them and had no purification
They told me they realised they were going to be short (especially given the unexpected heat and the fact they had their ENTIRE luggage for their 6 month holiday with them - 30kg each!!!), and asked if i thought they were better off drinking the water untreated, or just rationing. I didn't know what to tell them. What would you do? !

Depends on the area. I ran out this weekend, and drank untreated. As you can tell, I am perfectly fine.

That said, I research the areas that I go to, and I listen to what people tell me. I know that if I were to camp at Mcallister Springs, I'd need a filter, as they have had Giardia there for years.

I also know that it is silly to drink untreated at the main range, because there is also Giardia in the water there.

That said... if worse comes to worse, you can always boil the water for 60 seconds, just to be sure.

You could also invest in a Steripen. I don't use one myself, however for the size that they are, and the fact that they kill off as much bacteria as they do, it may be a good fail safe, just in case your only choice is to drink water that you know is bad.

Last edited by ryantmalone on Sun 20 Jan, 2013 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[wayno]

drinking untreated water us usually hit and miss,
in Nz DOC tell you to treat the water.. but to a certain extent its official dept's covering themselves
i've never treated a drop of water since i started tramping thirty years ago. i dont personally know anyone who treats their water in nz and i dont know of anyone getting giardia or anything else.. theres only one park i can think of that i would treat the water from a stream....
i'm not saying aus is the same, but dont assume you will get sick automatically from drinking untreated water,
i've heard giardia is only one organism per thousand litres of water on average. and it sinks in still water pools.... you need a reasonable no of diardia organisms to make you sick. americans are adamant about treating all their water, someone i know did the 300km john muir trail and he never treated a drop. the americans thought he was nuts but he was so far up the water sheds he didnt see how the water could be contaminated.

[Gusto]

I'll keep my comments brief as the previous two responses were fantastic.

Firstly, sometimes there is a significant difference between not knowing where one currently is and where one needs to go. You may be in a position were not matter where you are as long as you walk north you'll hit a track for example. Another good technique can be to walk uphill, hopefully you'll get a better view and features on the map will be more obvious


Secondly, the water one can be tricky. I'd rather have giadia than die of dehydration. Yes, diarrhea may lead to the similar fate, but I'd buy a little more time alive. other ways to filter water without Chemicals or Fire can be to just use fabric from a t-shirt etc. Also mixing half clean water from reserves with half untreated water. Also following the water source upstream may assist in obtaining cleaner water.

[nq111]

What should you do if you lose the track?
I walked from Blackheath to blue gum forest, and at Beauchamp Falls there had been a landslide (quite a few years ago I think) which had totally covered the track.
I knew the track basically followed the creek down, but I didn't really want to just start following the creek in the hope that I saw the track later on and potentially get myself more lost.
In the end it wasn't a big deal, I dumped my pack and wandered around for a bit before I found it, then went back and got my gear. But it did make me wonder what the best thing to do is if you get lost. Keep moving? Try and backtrack?

Look at your GPS Really depends on the situation and person, what you know about the area etc. No one answer. But in general, stop before you get really lost or tired.

What do you do if you're on a schedule you won't be able to make?
I was finishing my walk on Friday, which was forecast to reach 33deg by late arvo in the Blue Mountains, but in fact hit 44 deg by min morning! I managed to keep to my schedule and get back on time, but again it made me wonder. It was a *&%$#! hard slog getting up out of the valley in that heat and I was very tempted to wait out the heat and stay another day. But I had lodged my trip intention and didn't want my wife to get freaked out when I didn't come home that night. So how do you get around this? Should you

Hopefully your contacts are prepared you could be late and won't panic. If you know search parties are going to be called and you can't otherwise communicate you may as well pull the EPIRB - save everyone time and hassle. (you may be fine but 10 guys may be tramping the area looking for you). Not a good situation but the best outcome at that point.

Running out of water - to drink untreated or not?
I ran into a couple of German backpackers who had taken 5L of water for 3 days between them and had no purification
They told me they realised they were going to be short (especially given the unexpected heat and the fact they had their ENTIRE luggage for their 6 month holiday with them - 30kg each!!!), and asked if i thought they were better off drinking the water untreated, or just rationing. I didn't know what to tell them. What would you do?
I guess if I was them I would probably have broken the fire ban and boiled water? I dunno.

I would drink the water untreated rather than go really thirsty. Lessor of risks (dehydration will kill you in hours / days + weaken you significantly in the meantime).

[ILUVSWTAS]

Same in Tassie luckily. No need to treat the water. You hear of the occasional person getting gastro (myself included once) but even that's pretty uncommon.

[nq111]

BTW 0- i didn't quote that properly

[tasadam]

Great topic, looking forward to reading properly and possibly replying (properly) when I am not on the iphone.
My first experience at losing a track was 2 decades or more ago, a solo attempt at Anne, didn't summit but when returning I found myself on a defined track that wasn't familiar, and cloud was obscuring landmarks.
Taking a dump seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Digging up there is not easy.
After that, Lots wife came into view for just long enough to get a bearing, all good.

More later.

[Hallu]

For the water thing, just ask yourself if there is cattle and/or farms nearby, if there isn't, then it's usually safe to drink. As said, the worst thing that could happen is diarrhea because your stomach isn't use to drinking this water. I don't know about Tassie or in the Australian Alps, but in France with villages in the mountains, the running water in homes etc... is usually untreated. It's not dangerous, but when you first drink it, you get diarrhea for the first couple of days, no big deal and then you're sort of "immune" to it.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Taking a dump seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Digging up there is not easy.


More later.

Lol, this has to do with what? Or did you just feel like sharing?

[ollster]

Taking a dump seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Digging up there is not easy.

More later.

Lol, this has to do with what? Or did you just feel like sharing?

Curious. I probably would've knocked one off to fill in the time, but each to their own.

[Earwig]

Losing the track isn’t an issue if you know where you are. I have lost many tracks but have only been “lost” on a few rare occasions. I always carry a map and keep track of where I am so if the track disappears I have a reasonable idea of my whereabouts and where I need to be.

Being home late depends on what sort of message you leave with those at home. If I’m on an extended walk then they know that I have planned for crappy weather changing things (route and timing). I also use my mobile whenever I can to let whoever is waiting for me know what I am up to – just made the summit of X, headed to Y for lunch, sort of thing. Text messages can often get through where a call can’t.

As to the question of water; this is where walking solo is a problem. In a group you can get the most expendable person to have a drink and then wait and see how they fare. I usually consider what is upstream – bush, farmland, camping area with pit toilets – and make a judgement as to whether the water is probably safe or not. Park managers will never say water is safe – their lawyers won’t let them.

[Davo1]

tasadam wrote:
Taking a dump seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Digging up there is not easy.


More later.


Lol, this has to do with what? Or did you just feel like sharing?

I'd say fair chance seeing it was two decades ago he had a real dose of the S$%^tS for losing his way

[andrewbish]

I take a SPOT 2 with me on my solo hikes. It gives me a PLB for when TSHTF and let's me send "I'm ok" messages to my wife if I'm running late.

[MrWalker]

I take a SPOT 2 with me on my solo hikes. It gives me a PLB for when TSHTF and let's me send "I'm ok" messages to my wife if I'm running late.

This illustrates the major flaw in the standard beacon system. It really should have a second message that says, in effect,
"I am at this lat/long and I am having trouble, but do NOT send out the search party yet."

The SPOT system does this nicely but does not transmit in some forest and gullies, so is less reliable for rescue. A Sat phone can do the same, but is relatively expensive. I always carry a beacon and there has been an occasion when I would really have liked to send a message to indicate I was delayed but still making progress.

[Rob A]

This illustrates the major flaw in the standard beacon system..

The beacon system is a "rescue me" system.
Its not an Im running late and Ill be embarrassed if someone organises a search after me, its not an Im in distress and I want to get out, or Im hungry or tired or scared.
Its not an I need to let my loved ones know.
Its and end of the line, absolute come and get me mayday and doesnt need to be diluted with options.
Buy a spot or a sat phone if the situation warrants.

[ILUVSWTAS]

This illustrates the major flaw in the standard beacon system..

The beacon system is a "rescue me" system.
Its not an Im running late and Ill be embarrassed if someone organises a search after me, its not an Im in distress and I want to get out, or Im hungry or tired or scared.
Its not an I need to let my loved ones know.
Its and end of the line, absolute come and get me mayday and doesnt need to be diluted with options.
Buy a spot or a sat phone if the situation warrants.

Spot (pun intended) on.
Although a, "im sick to death of dehydrated crap", fly me in a pizza button would be a nice touch.

[andrewbish]

Spot (pun intended) on.
Although a, "im sick to death of dehydrated crap", fly me in a pizza button would be a nice touch.

Haha A hot pizza at the end of a long day on the trail would certainly hit the spot!

The good news is that you can do this - with a SPOT Connect, which lets you send custom messages.

[johnh]

Just an interesting note on the untreated water thing.
It is now thought that there may be a genetic pre-disposition making some people more susceptible to giardia than others who drink from the same water supply. Foxes and wild dogs ( and other animals ) carry it and contaminate streams and springs, so a lack of human presence in an area may not be a good guide to water purity. My wife got giardia and she hasn't set foot in the bush in years . . Melbourne tap water perhaps?
A little container of Betadine in your first-aid kit has multiple uses, weighs very little, and 4 drops per litre of water ( wait 20 minutes ) kills giardia and most other bugs and can hardly be tasted! Wonder if whiskey works too?
Good health.

[FatCanyoner]

I had my first solo overnighter a few days back

Awesome. Always great to see more people heading off into the bush!

What should you do if you lose the track?

This is why I always carry a map and compass, even for "on track" walks. I always encourage others to do the same. Tracks make life easier (you can escape the scrub and they usually follow the path of least resistance) but they are not a necessity. Put the effort into knowing where you are at all times (at least roughly), so even if you lose the track you can continue on to your destination / a likely spot where you'll encounter the track again. Although if you're nervous then what you did -- stopping and looking for it rather than wandering off wildly -- is probably a good call.

What do you do if you're on a schedule you won't be able to make?

A lot of people get in trouble because they try and push for unrealistic deadlines. There are also a lot of unnecessary rescue operations because loved ones freak out. Personally, I always give myself plenty of time. Even for a day walk, my wife knows not to call in a rescue until at least lunch time the following day (so I can spend an extra night if there are problems). For longer walks I will give myself 24 hours or even longer as a buffer. She'd rather me home on time, but understands the need for flexibility. I don't carry a PLB, but if you do then it can be handy to simply say "I'll be home when I'm home. If there is an emergency I'll set off the PLB".

Running out of water - to drink untreated or not?

I have never treated water in the Blue Mountains, and I certainly don't carry the water for the whole trip from day one! My general recommendation is to only drink from side creeks etc where you know the whole catchment is in national park. That's especially the case with the Grose, where there is a lot of heavy metal contamination from the old coal mine. Even with the heavy metals, I'd be telling the Germans to drink it. In extreme heat you can die quite quickly from a lack of water (read up on David Iredale), which is far worse than a very minor risk of tummy bug.

[jonnosan]

To Fatcanyoner's point, tracks have generally evolved along 'natural' routes, meaning they will typically follow "something", whether it is the bank of a creek, or the top of a ridge, or the bottom of a rock wall, such that if you lose the track, it will generally be possible to work out what feature the track was following, and follow that instead.

But your enemy here is panic - if you have confidence walking off track, then next time you are in that situation you are more likely to make good navigational decisions, and therefore be more likely to end up hitting the track again anyway.

I would suggest you do a bit of intentional off track walking, e.g. get out the topo, find an area with say, two fire trails, and find a good spot to cross from one to the other (paying close attention to the contour lines, so you have some idea how steep the terrain will be!).

One suggestion in the upper Blue Mountains would be - redledge pass (bit of exposure) - you start on the fire trail on Narrowneck, follow a very distinct footpad along a ledge and down through a gully the base of the cliff, but from there you need to find your own way. There is an obvious ridge line to follow down to the ruins of an old mine, but as long as you head down hill (in whatever direction) you will eventually intersect the 6 Ft track. So it would be impossible to get lost.

[madmacca]

Just a few points on untreated water.

1. Diarrehea is better than heat stroke. If you must choose between the two, drink the untreated water.
2. The issue of contaminated water in NP's and State Forests is overblown beyond the actual level of risk presented. Most water in NP's is probably safe, but contaminated sources certainly do exist. As a rough guide to the safety of water, if it drains through farmland, or is downstream from a popular campsite, then the risk of contimination is higher. Flowing water is generally safer than still water. It is generally preferable to drink from a side stream, rather than the larger stream along the valley floor.
3. Even with suspect sources, there are ways you can use it to extend your existing treated water. Keep your treated water for drinking, but use the untreated stuff to pour over you at regular intervals to keep cool without sweating. Boiling kills nearly all bacteria/viruses/etc, so cooking (assuming it involves boiling) with untreated water is in fact treating it.

[Wolfix]

I would never drink untreated water unless I thought I might die. In 35+ temps with limited fresh water, that risk would be realised. I have seen the permanent damage Giardiasis can do to someone's digestive system and mine is dodgy enough as it is.

[blacksheep]

Taking a dump seemed like a good idea to me at the time. Digging up there is not easy.

More later.

Lol, this has to do with what? Or did you just feel like sharing?

Curious. I probably would've knocked one off to fill in the time, but each to their own.

Still giggling several days later

[Nuts]

Ahh, one I missed? I thought that meant the same thing as adam.. I guess it could mean 'the next walker coming down the track'.. tricky use of words.. I suppose in NZ it may have an entirely different meaning again.. anyhow..