Running and bushwalking

[Taurë-rana]

OK, I'm sure there's a discussion about this somewhere, but I can't find it! Is running a good way of getting fit for bushwalking? If I can walk comfortably for an hour most days, then I train so that I can run a fair bit of that hour, does that improve my bushwalking fitness? Am I training the same muscles? I'm sure it improves my overall fitness, but would I be better walking for two hours (supposing I have the time). What are your thoughts?

[ILUVSWTAS]

A very wise man once said, The only way to get fit for lugging a heavy pack uphill, is to lug a heavy pack uphill.

[volcboy]

A very wise man once said, The only way to get fit for lugging a heavy pack uphill, is to lug a heavy pack uphill.

Quoted for truth. As I can't always get out to walk up hills with my pack, I have another method of getting used to the weight of a pack. Before going on a longer walk, I fill my pack up with gear at home and do squats while wearing it (2-3 sets of as many as possible).

Sometimes I keep an eye out for the men in white coats while I'm doing this

[photohiker]

Running is good cardio, but it subjects your joints to impact stresses. I've basically given it up in the hope that I'll get good use out of my original knees and hips for the things I'd rather be doing for longer.

[Son of a Beach]

I have found running to be very good training for bushwalking. It doesn't exercise exactly the same set of muscles in exactly the same way, but it does exercise a similar set of muscles to the ones that I find troublesome on bushwalking without any recent training. In particular (for me) it is the calves that really hurt me after bushwalking if I've done nothing for months beforehand, especially if the walk involves any significant uphill sections (and they almost all do).

I find that jogging for only a short distance strengthens my calves much more than walking for a longer distance. I also have a steep hill near home and I jog up that hill for a couple of weeks before going on a walk (if I'm out of condition, which I usually am). This helps a LOT, and now that I have all this worked out, I don't get the post-bushwalk calf muscle pain anywhere near like what I used to.

Jogging barefoot puts even more stress on your calves, but this requires great care to avoid actually tearing the calf muscles if you're not used to it.

[ILUVSWTAS]

As photohiker said though running is pretty bad for your knees and joints which are quite vital to prolonged walking. I'd probably give running a miss myself, but I know it does work for alot of people.
Swimming or Riding a bike is good for general fitness, or just do aerobic exercise as volcboy suggested

[alliecat]

From an earlier thread, I'd have a look at this article. It looks like a really good set of exercises to help with bushwalking specifically.

For the record, I've been going to the gym for the last couple of months. I do 30 mins of cardio (either on the bike or the cross-trainer) and then 30 mins of weights, balance, and core strength exercises. Having just come back from a 4 day trip I can say that this training has definitely helped my bushwalking. While I still have a long way to go with the cardio side of things, my balance has definitely improved, as has the strength and stamina of my legs.

I don't run cos that leaves my knees and hips pretty much stuffed, but there are lots of low-impact exercises that can help. If you don't want to be stuck in a gym, I reckon bike riding would be a good place to start.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[ILUVSWTAS]

Totally agree alliecat!
Where did you spend the 4 days away a?? We were up on the king william range, got caught camping at over 1200mtrs in the strongest winds I have ever felt! Could barely walk in it!
also had snow, hail rain.... etc etc......

[alliecat]

Totally agree alliecat!
Where did you spend the 4 days away a?? We were up on the king william range, got caught camping at over 1200mtrs in the strongest winds I have ever felt! Could barely walk in it!
also had snow, hail rain.... etc etc......

I'll try and write up a full trip report soon, but we spent 3 nights at Pine Valley. Walked up to the Labyrinth on a beautiful sunny day (Tuesday) - clouds came over a bit later. Didn't make it up the Acropolis because of too much snow on the ground Apart from a bit of drizzle overnight we had really good weather. Mind you, there were some strong winds even down in the shelter of Pine Valley, so I can imagine that it would have been a tad breezy up on the heights You must have got all the snow/hail/rain before it got to us - thanks for that!

Cheers,
Alliecat

[ILUVSWTAS]

Cant wait to read it!!
Yeh we had everyones share of the weather and scrub! Moved about 500mtrs in 2 hrs at one point....
But we did have 2 gorgeous days!!

Photos will be on the Gallery page soon....

[Taurë-rana]

alliecat, I had some anecdotal evidence about someone who used to ride a bike from Margate to Sandy Bay every day, who you would think would be very fit, who struggled on a walk up Mt Anne as it was very different muscles so I have been a bit sceptical about using bike riding as preparation, other than for cardiovascular training, ever since. I would that think that the weights, balance and core strength exercises would be more useful, but I can't cope with gym work!
I don't run on the road but on a bush track so I hope that helps protect my knees etc, but now I have got to a level of fitness where I feel that I need to do a bit of running to burn some energy off. Maybe if I had some good steep tracks nearby to walk up it would slow me down and probably be better preparation. I can imagine the gorge in Launceston would be good for that, some lovely steep tracks there.

[Phil]

alliecat, I had some anecdotal evidence about someone who used to ride a bike from Margate to Sandy Bay every day, who you would think would be very fit, who struggled on a walk up Mt Anne as it was very different muscles so I have been a bit sceptical about using bike riding as preparation, other than for cardiovascular training, ever since.

I agree with the bike comments Annie. One of my bush walking mates who does A LOT of mountain bike riding (he's doing the Wildside next year) struggles to keep up with me, especially the up-hill sections when we go walking together. There is absolutley no way I could possibly keep up with him on a bike, but as you said, it's a very different fitness.

I don't run on the road but on a bush track so I hope that helps protect my knees etc, but now I have got to a level of fitness where I feel that I need to do a bit of running to burn some energy off. Maybe if I had some good steep tracks nearby to walk up it would slow me down and probably be better preparation. I can imagine the gorge in Launceston would be good for that, some lovely steep tracks there.

I'm lucky enough to live about a 60 second drive from Duck Reach Power Station and have the pleasure of running through the Gorge and Trevallyn Reserve area quite regulalrly. In preparing for the Triple Top Mountain Run in 2 weeks time, I did a 20km course on Saturday (took 2hrs 15min) with 75% of that spent on the tracks in these areas (HEAPS of hills!); the other 30 minutes or so were along some roads. It's certainly MUCH more enjoyable running along tracks in areas like this than along footpaths or roads if you can find a nice spot close to home.

[alliecat]

alliecat, I had some anecdotal evidence about someone who used to ride a bike from Margate to Sandy Bay every day, who you would think would be very fit, who struggled on a walk up Mt Anne as it was very different muscles so I have been a bit sceptical about using bike riding as preparation, other than for cardiovascular training, ever since. I would that think that the weights, balance and core strength exercises would be more useful, but I can't cope with gym work!
I don't run on the road but on a bush track so I hope that helps protect my knees etc, but now I have got to a level of fitness where I feel that I need to do a bit of running to burn some energy off. Maybe if I had some good steep tracks nearby to walk up it would slow me down and probably be better preparation. I can imagine the gorge in Launceston would be good for that, some lovely steep tracks there.

Yeah, fair enough. I don't ride a bike outside the gym so it was just a guess that it would be helpful. Maybe riding up steep hills would be good - but then you might as well put a pack on and walk up them

Off road running is definitely going to be useful and, as you say, less stressful on the joints than road work. Trail running will definitely help your balance as well. In the gym I work on balance by doing various exercises while standing on one of those "bosu" things (like half a fitball with a solid base - sort of a squishy dome if you can picture that). Doing the same sort of exercises as a part of a trail run might help with core and balance - eg. stand on an uneven rock and do some squats, or do bicep curls with a couple of (full) water bottles while standing on one leg, or find a rock step and do the old aerobic "step up, step down" thing. So you could make the bush track into your own personal gym and avoid the whole sweaty noisy gym vibe. Just a few thoughts anyway.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Tue 16 Nov, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Will]

Interesting to see the immediate reaction to running. I know lots of people that run quite a bit and most have reasonable leg joints still. Those that don't are more mobile than a good 80% of people their age...
The point is there is good and not so good ways to run, not directly based on any evidence that I know of anyway, but to me it seems the lazy way(s) to run use the joints as shock absorbers (which they don't, much), the lower impact and harder way uses much more muscle. Unfortunately damage in the making is what I generally see on my usual loop around Knocklofty.

Trail running is so much better than running on the road, mainly because it in the bush! Also you pay much more attention to foot placement/stride and the stabiliser muscles are worked as well. This means you will actually have functional strength (unlike what gym equipment offers, but I'll not get started on the uselessness of isolation machines).

I've not tested this on a lot of people, but just out of curiosity, find a park with one of those horses/motorbikes etc that are mounted on a single spring. (if that makes any sense!)
Stand on it, two legs. See how much you wobble. Now do a squat or several, try to keep it relatively still.
Now try one leg, this is where most people seem to struggle. If you can do this on either leg no problem then go for a few pistol squats (one legged squat). I do sets of 5 pistol squats, each leg, without too much wobble (more on the left). Would expect hikers to be a little better at this that the average Joe.

Another vote here for the train the way you compete, cross training is very useful but shouldn't replace the primary objective.
Also with Alliecat on the bush gym, the only limit is creativity. Parks and schools offer fantastic sources of playing, err training equipment as well.

[Kinsayder]

I've been thinking about the notion of training quite a bit lately. I have a planned trip up a sizeable mountain (just under 4,400m) in two years time, which has given me the sort of time to consider my own physical capacity. This is coupled with readings that suggest I need to be in ideal physical condition for this climb. Of course, Australia is not the ideal place for suitable practice runs. So, I've been running lately which consistently buggers my feet when I go for too long (over an hour; curiously hiking for days leaves them fine but multi-day hikes are a rarity (only three or four a year) when you have a young family). I'm thinking that weekly hill running, yoga, my continued hiking-when-I-can and maybe a cross trainer might be my best options.

I'm not sure if this is best with what is sadly limited time but I'd really hate to get to have to turn back because of a lack of physical preparedness. Do others have training regimes to have them in shape for those planned dream trips?

[ULWalkingPhil]

From an earlier thread, I'd have a look at this article. It looks like a really good set of exercises to help with bushwalking specifically.

For the record, I've been going to the gym for the last couple of months. I do 30 mins of cardio (either on the bike or the cross-trainer) and then 30 mins of weights, balance, and core strength exercises. Having just come back from a 4 day trip I can say that this training has definitely helped my bushwalking. While I still have a long way to go with the cardio side of things, my balance has definitely improved, as has the strength and stamina of my legs.

I don't run cos that leaves my knees and hips pretty much stuffed, but there are lots of low-impact exercises that can help. If you don't want to be stuck in a gym, I reckon bike riding would be a good place to start.

Cheers,
Alliecat

Same here, I've been going to the gym every 2nd day for hour and a half. Working on Weights and Cardio, and I try to fit in 3 hikes a week with a loaded pack, distances range from 4km to 17km. Depends how I feel on the day and how much time I have.

[DarrenM]

I've been thinking about the notion of training quite a bit lately. I have a planned trip up a sizeable mountain (just under 4,400m) in two years time, which has given me the sort of time to consider my own physical capacity. This is coupled with readings that suggest I need to be in ideal physical condition for this climb. Of course, Australia is not the ideal place for suitable practice runs. So, I've been running lately which consistently buggers my feet when I go for too long (over an hour; curiously hiking for days leaves them fine but multi-day hikes are a rarity (only three or four a year) when you have a young family). I'm thinking that weekly hill running, yoga, my continued hiking-when-I-can and maybe a cross trainer might be my best options.

I'm not sure if this is best with what is sadly limited time but I'd really hate to get to have to turn back because of a lack of physical preparedness. Do others have training regimes to have them in shape for those planned dream trips?

2 years is plenty of time IMO. With your feet issues, have you bought shoes specific to your foot shape and terrain? I started trail running for fitness some time ago and found that this area played a major factor in how my body coped day after day with training. Allowing your body to get used to new types of exercise can take time.
Hill running has definitely helped me gain cardio and strength, and I find that trail running over road running is slightly more forgiving on my legs from an impact perspective.

Mixing up the training is good. MTB, trail running and hiking form the core of my fitness. The single most important thing I like to work on above all the physical stuff, is mental hardness. Make a conscious effort to think about what it takes to go the extra mile. Most people have such a large untapped reservoir of strength that goes unused at the end of training. On the days that I feel good physically, I push as hard as I can, when I get to the end of a run or ride, I'll occasionally force myself not to stop and do another lap.

Get your body ready but work on your mind.

[Kinsayder]

That's both humbled and inspired my current efforts, Phillip. I'm not sure if I could possibly do 3 hikes a week but I realise that surely my efforts could be improved markedly.

Thanks for your response, Darren. I went for a nice hill run last night, hopefully something I can build upon or make circuit of three or four times a week.

I've had countless tests and doctors look at my feet but they can't find anything wrong with them. All I know is that it's not psychosomatic and there is a fair bit of pain. I sort of hope as I push through it all that something might snap and they can diagnose and fix it then. I've tried different shoes and prescribed soles and all that. My hiking boots are the only ones that don't seem to make it worse, which means I can still hike (but struggle with training to a degree) so at least there's that.

The mental side is a good point. I think I might be all right on that front. I'm not quite sure how to put it without seeming conceited but I've got healthy reserves of inner fortitude.

[puredingo]

Yep, I can totally relate to foot issue thing, it's been a thorn in my side since the time i took my first step. In the late 90's while I was playing football for a Sydney club I had some pretty decent "footmen" look at the problem, prescribe orthodics/suitable joggers etc but it always ended up the same. For a few days it feel cured but once the wear set in the product the pain would return. Last weekend that pain was back with vengeance, we only did a fairly easy overnighter that totaled up to about 22klm's but by the time I got back to the car my feet where shot. The next day worse.

Nothing more annoying than feeling fit and eager to motor but your natural equipment is falling apart around you. It ended my football career, hopefully it wont do the same for my bushwalking interest.

[sim1oz]

The Melbourne suburb where I live the is fairly flat but I love bushwalking in hilly terrain. Personally, I jog up to three times a week, usually as part of an interval training program to increase my ability to cope with exertion. I walk every other day of the week, and do weight training a couple of times a week as well. When I go for day bushwalks - every couple of weekends - I often put extra weight in my pack to make sure I have the upper-body strength for week- long treks. With this regular exercise over the last 2 years, my ankles are much stronger despite past injuries... though my knees are still a bit of work-in-progress. I get far less puffed on the climb up now and rarely need to stop, unless I want admire the view!

I just got a copy of The Outdoor Athlete which discusses training for a range of outdoor sports (see http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wktClSSadc4C&dq=OUTDOOR&ie=ISO-8859-1&source=gbs_gdata&redir_esc=y.) Once I read the above-mentioned book, I'll probably fine tune my regular exercise routine some more.

[madmacca]

I agree with the suggestion that the best way to train for bushwalking, is to walk with a pack. But depending on where you live, in urban areas, it can be hard to find hills steep and long enough to really give you a good workout and get your heart rate into the "cardio zone", and running may actually be better preparation. In these circumstances, running during the week, and finding a nearby bushwalk for a couple of hours on weekends may be a pretty good training program overall.

Strength training should also be part of your bushwalking preparation. Squats are an obvious one, but calf raises are also good. If you can move up to doing the single leg variants of these, then it really introduces the balance aspect. I am a big believer in doing these barefoot, as your foot and ankle muscles are working much harder to keep you upright and balanced than when wearing shoes. Strong foot and ankle muscles can be the difference between a slight mistep, and falling on a rougher trail. Back strength is also important for carrying a pack all day - planks and side planks are great for this, as they work a wide range of core muscles. 15 minutes 3 times per week for these exercises should be all that is required.