Swimming Pack Across a River?

[corvus]

I asked for a "deceased canine bag" when visiting a vet surgery to procure one of these items. I thought it necessary to be this unusually PC (on my own scale of things) because there were about four dog owners with their animals in the waiting room within earshot.

I think you are just stirring which hurts Animal lovers who have recently lost their loved pets ,not appropriate and please learn sensitivity corvus[
quote]

[Dave Bremers]

I asked for a "deceased canine bag" when visiting a vet surgery to procure one of these items. I thought it necessary to be this unusually PC (on my own scale of things) because there were about four dog owners with their animals in the waiting room within earshot.

I think you are just stirring which hurts Animal lovers who have recently lost their loved pets ,not appropriate and please learn sensitivity corvus[
quote]

I don't have a problem with what he said, in fact this is much better than "dead doggy bag" considering the occupants of the room. It's too hard to infer the tone of voice from some text so its impossible from those two lines to tell if he's stirring or just telling it like it was - so lets not assume. Can we just relax?

[adventurescape]

I think I have missed something somewhere along the line...

There is no reason for anyone to be offended by what I have said. I was careful what I asked for in relation to several pet owners occupying the vet's waiting room. No stirring intended. Losing a pet is tough, I have lost several over the years. Loss is a part of life and so is dealing with it. For my perceived insensitivity, there seems to be an equal amount of oversensitivity.

Anyway, If I was to stir, I would have mentioned a lack of duty of care, as neither my Kathmandu bag or my "body bag" have a safety warning about the possibility of suffocation on them! Especially considering the Kathmandu one has a suggested survival use as a shelter WRITTEN ON IT... Or to remain on topic, NOT TO BE USED AS A FLOTATION DEVICE

Can we move on please?

[ollster]

there seems to be an equal amount of oversensitivity.

This. (And why is it so much more acceptable to call it a body bag!?)

[Dave Bremers]

"This?" I'm not sure what you're getting at ollster.

Back on topic, the Kathmadu bags can be used as shelter, either put it over your legs, cut a hole in it and put it over your head like a poncho, or slit it open like a tarp . But if it doesn't float, then how will it keep water out of my pack? muppets concerned about public liability i'm guessing... or maybe we should hate the people who caused the public liabilty fiascos in recent years ?

[Ent]

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[ollster]

"This?" I'm not sure what you're getting at ollster.

People tend to be quick to be offended, without considering they are making mountains out of molehills. Don't get me wrong, I like mountains, but...

As far as swimming a pack across a river, I find packs are remarkably floaty. I usually carry enough drybags to make sure I can keep everything important nice and dry, and really if I was planning properly I'd be especially careful if there was a significant river crossing during the trip.

[adventurescape]

Seriously,

I was taking the p@#s with the duty of care comment. Good to know I can catch my dinner whilst swimming my virtual pack across a river!
Like I said, if I was going to stir...

[corvus]

Whats wrong with just asking for one of their large heavy duty plastic bags, and who is being sensitive to criticism now.
Yes front up and before of a full surgery waiting list request a dead animal bag please in full voice (insert species) by mentioning dead pets you show insensitivity in the first place and I still suspect your choice of wording was and is cavalier brought upon by a degree of immaturity which dissipates with age
corvus
P.S. This subject was covered many post ago

Last edited by corvus on Fri 20 Nov, 2009 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ollster]

immaturity which dissipates with age

From my experience it is slowly replaced by cantankerousness.

[Son of a Beach]

I don't think the discussion relating to the terms used for the bags is going anywhere useful. Please give it a rest, guys.

[corvus]

Consider me moderated
corvus

[adventurescape]

I'll try to behave too .

I think time would be better spent swimming with my pack on in preparation for next winter, if it is going to resemble the last! I haven't tried it yet as I have not had to cross such significant water. It seems like one of those things better practiced close to civilisation. It would be a good waterproofness testing for my packing setup too. I might take a set of scales with me to the water hole and see how much my pack weighs with a saturated harness, as most walking done this winter gone was with the harness in this condition.

[Son of a Beach]

Just don't literally swim with a big pack on. It doesn't work (apparently). You need to take it off and either hold onto it or pull it by rope.

[adventurescape]

I will try many methods with caution. I won't be jumping off 4 meter rock ledges into freezing mountain rivers Bear Grylls style. I will see what happens with pack on in the water. Even if it is to know what to expect in case of a slip into a river in an unexpected situation. Always good to try these things in more controlled situations first.

[Son of a Beach]

Even if it is to know what to expect in case of a slip into a river in an unexpected situation. Always good to try these things in more controlled situations first.

That's a good idea. I'll be interested to hear how easy it is to get a strapped-on large, heavy pack off, once your in water over your head. It might be good to have somebody nearby with a video camera too. $250,000 up for grabs on Australia's Funniest Home Videos.

[adventurescape]

Video is a great idea!
Here's a set up for the mental picture of worst case scenario:
Exceptionally gangly turtle trying to deal with unexpectedly buoyant shell and inability to turn over to enable breathing!!!

[Darren]

G'Day All
As mentioed ages ago i practiced in my pool with good results. My pack was probably smaller than others, but at the time i had the thought of putting the pack on the front and backstroking . Now i havent tried this, and strongly recommend practicing in a pool if you were going to concider it, But it may just hold your head better than having it on the back. No good for currents though.
Just a thought
Darren

[corvus]

Why not swim across first with a light line which is well secured to your pack then pull float your pack after you ?
corvus

[ILUVSWTAS]

Why not swim across first with a light line which is well secured to your pack then pull float your pack after you ?
corvus

Thats generally the tactic ive considered and thought was the norm.....

[Pedro]

In New Zealand, river crossing is an art form - it has to be with the rivers that come off those mountains. Its worth looking to our Kiwi cousins for advice on this topic as most tramping trips in NZ involve crossing rivers that are wide, deep and swift, not to mention, very cold. These sites might be a good starting point:

http://www.riversafe.org.nz/facts/rivercrossing.shtml

http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Safety ... ossing.asp

It is good to see that this thread has got back on track after some petty bickering. When we start picking at other peoples posts, it might be time to turn off the PC and get back out into the bush - that is what it is all about after all.

[Darren]

G'Day
My original post refered to a crossing i was planning solo with some current. I considered the rope option but there may have been cosiderable drag on a line that may have pulled the pack in before i was across. After weighing up the various options i chose to swim with it on my back then practiced the method.
No matter what method you chose i stongly suggest practiceing in some safe water.
Darren

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Tue 16 Nov, 2010 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[wander]

Or you could cross a river using one of these https://www.alpackaraft.com/store/index.cfm?CategoryID=53&do=list

True a bit heavy for just the odd small creek, but as a group tool for any significant (and that depends on how far you want to swim) crossing.

[tasadam]

I already mentioned this, but due to its recent success and ease I thought I would say again.
At Horseshoe Inlet there are 3 creeks to cross, two of which you can reportedly wade by going out in the bay. Not for us with those large waves due to the wind, so we swam all 3 creeks.
A good view of the creeks here.

Turn pack upside down
Carefully place large orange garbage bag with yellow ties (77 grams each) over the pack, turn pack right way up and pull orange bag up, twist it up a bit and wrap a rubber band around the top a number of times to make a tight seal. I carry a number of size #64 rubber bands, they are great for all sorts of things, including this.
Be careful not to pierce bag on sticks or rocks.
Person 1 swims across without pack.
Person 2 picks up pack and places in creek, bit of a push in the right direction. Allow th +100kph winds to carry the pack across the creek. Person 1 retrieves packs from water.
Take off garbage bag, store safely so it doesn't snag / rip, ready for next crossing, continue and do it all again another two times.

Of course if there is no wind, swimming across with a cord / string / rope would allow the packs to be pulled across. A large quantity of builders line (white nylon string) is a handy thing to carry, lightweight, good for all sorts of things inc. clothes line, emergency bootlace, extra guy line if needed, and pulling packs across creeks.

One other thing I noticed. When I swam the Irenabyss I noticed it felt positively warmer when exiting the water. I noticed this again when I got out of the first of 3 creek crossings a couple of weeks ago. But exiting creeks 2 and 3, it did not feel warmer when exiting the water, and hypothermia was a real danger.

[SteveJ]

What about inflating your sleeping mat and making use of it as a floatation device?

If you have multiple crossings then a Packraft may be worthwhile. I have recently purchased one to supplement my walking activities, seriously good bit of gear and opens up a world of possibilities beyond crossing rivers.....no more scrub bashing around lakes and along rivers, plenty of new routes....walk in- raft out trips and soooo much more.

http://www.alpackaraft.com/store/index. ... 53&do=list

I am a little more than in love with mine.

Steve

[Dave Bremers]

This is what we found on our most recent trip:
1. pack floats very well with everything drybags, no pack liner (internal or external required). we swam one stretch of the river for 30mins easily, resting on top of our packs and butterfly kicking against a mild current.
2. the pack gets friggin heavy without an external pack liner! - ideally make sure using this method that the pack is in the water no longer than a minute. I'm not talking 1 or 2 kg - more like 10-15kg in water that gets through the zips and sits between the drybags.
3. where the current was anything but incredibly slow we swam first without the packs, threw a line then hauled them after.

[Son of a Beach]

Were the dry bags reliable? Ie, no water leaking in after 30 minutes in the water?

[Dave Bremers]

I've come up with a fantastic new invention - a drybag that actually keeps things dry! seems quite a novel concept to todays manufacturers...

It depended where the drybags were in the pack. As I had my food in the bottom, my pack floated with the harness up and the top slightly leaning up. The food was wet (fortunately it was mostly double bagged with ziplocks etc.), one of our guys almost lost 5 days home-dehydrated food Our sleeping bags, which were in those StoS eVent drybags were wet on the small part of the bag that was in contact with the waterproof/breathable membrane. Other drybags of a few different brands (OR, Kathmandu, Exped) all showed varying degrees of moisture inside. Nothing too serious, but they're right when it says on the label "not for submersion". However, they were just as wet from days when it rained and drybags were left out in the rain or wet hands were stuck inside them. So not entirely waterproof but no catastrophe either. I would certainly recommend the method for swims of less than 1 min - we found internal pack liners a nightmare to pack items inside, and external ones a pain to organise for short swims, and possible quite heavy (kathmandu pack liner weighs 230g).
My most shocking discovery was that those clip lid containers with the rubber o-ring that you get from the supermarket were not waterproof. Had my first aid kit in one, it was OK, but was a little shocked.

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Tue 16 Nov, 2010 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.