Lowest Temperatures and Conditions at Altitude

[ILUVSWTAS]

Lakes as big as the great lake or Melaleuca Tony??

Boy this is fun....

[north-north-west]

Clear proof that Tasmania gets colder that -13C would be good way to prove your point.

The only way to do that would be to get an official met station placed somewhere like .. . oh, I don't know, how about up on Crater Peak? Or Legge's Tor.
As I've said I've seen the thermometer at the Windy Fridge Hut reading lower than -13 but that, no doubt, would be considered just anecdotal evidence and, therefore, not reliable.

[WarrenH]

In your youth if you played hockey in Laggan, Crookwell or in Goulburn, during winter? ... I doubt that you will ever father your own children.

Suffering from exposure at Charlotte's Pass in the dead of winter is mere child's play ... but being in Laggan in winter is actually being in hell on earth. I live in Canberra. Canberra is mild, -4°C here is biking weather and its just perfect to enjoy the effect of the bracing wind chill.

Warren.

Last edited by WarrenH on Mon 28 Jun, 2010 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Clear proof that Tasmania gets colder that -13C would be good way to prove your point.

The only way to do that would be to get an official met station placed somewhere like .. . oh, I don't know, how about up on Crater Peak? Or Legge's Tor.
As I've said I've seen the thermometer at the Windy Fridge Hut reading lower than -13 but that, no doubt, would be considered just anecdotal evidence and, therefore, not reliable.

Actually, it'd be interesting to put on eon Legges, Cradle, and Mt Anne. Compare what parts of Tassie gets the coldest. I reckon Cradle would be lower, then it'd be close between Anne and Legge

[north-north-west]

In your youth if you played hockey in Laggan, Crookwell or in Goulburn, during winter? ... I doubt that you will ever father your own children.

I most certainly won't. How many times do I have to remind you that I AM NOT A MALE.

[north-north-west]

Clear proof that Tasmania gets colder that -13C would be good way to prove your point.

The only way to do that would be to get an official met station placed somewhere like .. . oh, I don't know, how about up on Crater Peak? Or Legge's Tor.
As I've said I've seen the thermometer at the Windy Fridge Hut reading lower than -13 but that, no doubt, would be considered just anecdotal evidence and, therefore, not reliable.

Actually, it'd be interesting to put one on Legges, Cradle, and Mt Anne. Compare what parts of Tassie gets the coldest. I reckon Cradle would be lower, then it'd be close between Anne and Legge

Still air temperature, yeah, Cradle could well win out, but once you factor in the windchill Anne or Ossa might beat it. Or some of the more exposed edges of the Western Tiers.

Come to think of it, hasn't there been a photo posted here at some stage of Meander Falls frozen solid? That would have taken some seriously cold weather.

[ILUVSWTAS]

yeh theres lots of photos of frozen waterfalls, we saw one on pavement bluff a couple of weeks ago, actually my fellow walker and i both agreed that was some of the coldest we had been in. we had all clothes on and still had some concerns about our safety until we were out of the wind.

Mr Dombrovskis has a shot of a frozen fall somewhere in the Walls.

[BarryJ]

Great Lake was almost completely frozen over late July 2009. I had intended launching my boat but the bay at the ramp was frozen over so I ventured up to the look-out at the dam and could see the whole lake was virtually frozen over. Temp would have only been about -5º overnight. About 5 weeks ago, the temperature at Liawenee got down to -9.8º and the lake hardly had any ice on it.

Last edited by BarryJ on Mon 28 Jun, 2010 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ILUVSWTAS]

-5?? I find that hard to believe!! We have -5 to -8 here regularly and im sure it wouldnt freeze the great lake....

[north-north-west]

If it was -5 for long enough, maybe, but it would have to be an extended period without getting any warmer. Weeks, probably. Even at lower temperatures, it takes a while to freeze right over.

[BarryJ]

SNAP

You only need minus temps overnight and very low temps (3-4º) with wind chill on top of that during the day over a sustained period to cause the freezing.

[BarryJ]

I have just checked my records. I was trying to launch my boat at Great Lake on 19 July 2009. Weather obs for the month of July 2009are here:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/20090 ... 0907.shtml

[Tony]

Just been doing some research on highest wind speeds

The strongest wind ever recorded in Tasmania is 200 km/h on Mount Wellington.

I am unable to find a lot of information about wind speed in the Main Range Australian Alps but I did come across one article that mentions that “persistent wind speeds of 75kph are common, with top speeds reaching in excess of 150 kph”

Severe tropical cyclone Vance that devastated the northwest town of Exmouth, produced a measured wind gust of 267 km/h, which is the highest wind speed ever recorded on mainland Australia. The gust was recorded at 11.50 am (WST) 22 March 1999 at Learmonth Meteorological Office, 38 km south of Exmouth, as Vance passed nearby.

Tony

[ILUVSWTAS]

i'd take a 300kmh tropical wind over an 80km roaring fortie wind........

EDIT, as long as i had a sturdy pole to hang onto...

Last edited by ILUVSWTAS on Mon 28 Jun, 2010 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[north-north-west]

No offence, Tony, but tropical cyclones aren't really all that relevant when talking about windchill at altitude.

[Tony]

No offence, Tony, but tropical cyclones aren't really all that relevant when talking about windchill at altitude.

I put it in as I thought it was an intersting fact, if actual facts upsets you I can remove it.

[north-north-west]

No, actual facts are fascinating. It's just that that particular actual fact is as relevant to the discussion as the destructiveness of Tasmanian scrub is.

[ILUVSWTAS]

'Hey stop bringing the scrub thing up, ONE OF THE ORIGINAL POSTS was someone saying you tasweigans always think your island is the coldest place, has the hashest scrub........

[whiskeylover]

Our avatar is frozen Meander Falls. Doesn't have to be super cold for that to happen though, just a few consistent days of around -2 in Deloraine, and maybe less rain than we are currently getting. If you start walking very early you can catch the sun on it before some of the ice starts falling later in the day. There is usually a fair amount of water still running behind the ice sheets too. You need to get to the falls before about 0830.

[Ent]

Content removed by poster.

Last edited by Ent on Wed 15 Dec, 2010 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lindsay]

Well, of course, we had it tough when I were a lad.....walking through a raging blizzard wearing nothing but second hand speedos and each night we had to kill a feral cat and climb inside its stomach cavity for warmth...

[Azza]

Lowest temperatures I've experience has been in the minus twenty something in Japan.
What I've noticed about extreme cold ignoring wind chill is that once you go below about -10 or so,
you really don't notice it being colder except you can actually feel the cold penetraiting your bones.

Wind chill is obviously the things that makes the difference.
I took my glove off to film a run while snowboarding and within a minute or so I had the first stages of frost bite.
It literally took 10 minutes or so for me to regain normal dexterity in my hand.

The harshest thing about Tassie is maritime weather, marginal zero degree temperatures and windchill.
You get wet, then you get blown alway. You've been out in it all day, soaked through and absolutely miserable.

I generally don't mind extreme cold - its fine as long as you're dry and your shell + insulation layer is up to the job.

I reckon areas around Ossa, Pelion and Walls of J probably give the snowy mountains a reasonable run for its money temp wise.
Further south, but I reckon the min and max temperature variations are greater.

[alliecat]

I've trawled through Hydro's admittedly limited data and I haven't found anything lower than the -13.0C at butlers Gorger in 1983 that the BoM report as the lowest in Tas. Lots of days around -10C at Liaweenee, but only a handful below -12C.

Now for the mini-lecture

The main determining factors in still air temp are latitude and altitude (and the presence of large bodies of water). But local topography (the siting of the measurement station) can also play a big part in the values recorded.

The average lapse rate (ie. how fact it gets cold as you go up) is around 6.5C/km. So, all other things being equal, you expect the average temp to go down by 6.5C for each 1000m of height gained. The lapse rate increases if the air is wet. Liaweenee Canal Offtake is around 1050m above sea level. Charlotte Pass in the Snowy Mtns is around 1800m (not sure where the BoM station is exactly).

Still air temp is useful to know for when you're in your tent, tucked up safely out of the wind, but other than that, the wind chill is really important. The BoM use a formula for "apparent temperature" that has a wind chill component of -7C at 10m/s wind speed; ie. for each 10m/s of wind, it feels 7 degrees colder than the still air temp. 10m/s is 36km/h, which isn't a really strong wind at all. The other thing that really matter is how wet you are. Being wet will drastically alter how cold you get. I haven't found any hard data on how quickly being wet chills you down - I'll post it if I find it.

As far as frostbite is concerned, if you google "frostbite chart" you'll easily find some tables that relate air temp and wind speed to the time you can safely be exposed to the air before being in danger of frostbite. Worth looking at for anybody going snow camping I would suggest.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Tony]

Hi Allicat,

Thanks for doing all of that hard work. I would imagine that there would not be that much difference in conditions that you would experience if you where in a storm in the Tasmainian highlands or the Australian Alps.

Below is a metric frostbite chart that I down loaded from Wikipedia.

Tony

800px-Windchill_chart.gif (71.88 KiB) Viewed 17589 times

A wind chill chart I made in Excel using the formulas provided in the wikipedia article. This is based on the new formula for wind chill. The colour coding relates to the likelihood of frostbite. I will update the article with a break down of what the colours mean. Philbentley 19:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[north-north-west]

I can't believe this is still going on.

Absolute lowest air temperature, sure, it's quite possible that it's up in the Snowies somewhere, measured or not. But if we're talking harshest overall conditions (which is where I thought this debate started), Tassie trumps the lot easily. Just consider how much alpine terrain there is in Tassie compared to the Mainland - and I mean genuine alpine country, not the sub-alpine inversions that make up so much of the Australian Alps. Then have a look at how much lower the treeline is in Tasmania. There's a reason for both, and it has something to do with the climate.

[BarryJ]

What would be the highest BOM measuring station in Tassie? I think it might be Mount Read but a looking across from the various mountains suggest Cradle / Ossa might be a lot colder, or at least more inclined to get snow. Kitchen Hut would have to rate as a very cold place. The Snowy Range might be helped by having the BOM measuring point near the top but -13 is allegedly the coldest I could find when looking what I needed for a sleeping bag in Tassie but the measuring station is around 1000 metres me thinks so 600 more metres to Ossa and yes hardy souls have been known to camp up there in winter time.

Still the Snowy Mountain range would have to be highest and coldest place in Australia but in Tassie you can be in shorts and T-shirt and two hours later wandering in knee deep snow.

Cheers Brett

Liawenee is generally regarded as the coldest BOM measuring station in Tassie.

From Wikipedia:

Tasmania has a cool temperate climate with four distinct seasons. Summer lasts from December to February when the average maximum sea temperature is 21 °C (70 °F) and inland areas around Launceston reach 24 °C (75 °F). Other inland areas are much cooler with Liawenee, located on the Central Plateau, one of the coldest places in Australia with temperatures in February ranging between 4 °C (39 °F) to 17 °C (63 °F). Autumn lasts between March and May and experiences changeable weather, where summer weather patterns gradually take on the shape of winter patterns.[1] The winter months are between June and July and are generally the wettest and coolest months in the state, with most high lying areas receiving considerable snowfall. Winter maximums are 12 °C (54 °F) on average along coastal areas and 3 °C (37 °F) on the central plateau, thanks to a series of cold fronts from the Southern Ocean.[2] Spring is a season of transition, where winter weather patterns begin to take the shape of summer patterns. Although snowfall is still common up until October. Spring is generally the windiest time of the year with afternoon sea breezes starting to take effect on the coast.

And

The highest recorded maximum temperature in Tasmania was 42.2 °C (108.0 °F) at Scamander on 30 January 2009, during the 2009 southeastern Australia heat wave. Tasmania's lowest recorded minimum temperature was −13 °C (8.6 °F) on 30 June 1983, at Butlers Gorge, Shannon, and Tarraleah.

[north-north-west]

Coldest met station is not necessarily the same thing as coldest place.

[NickD]

I think that referring to weather stations or at all statistics is most irrelevant for this arguement. Air temperatures alone don't really capture the true feel of cold weather. I'm pretty sure that NSW would record consistently cold temperatures, but its the extremes, from day to day in Tasmania that make it unusual. Seeing a 30 degree day turn into a snow storm by night is not out of the question, especially in the South West. I've seen the weather turn from pearly blue to stormy in the time it took to pick a decent campsite and set up the tent at Square Lake on the Western Arthur's. We never saw it coming.
The fact is that Tasmania is the first peice of land, for 2 Oceans, the Atlantic & Tthe Indian oceans, with Antartica just south. This creates the extreme patterns that sweep across the state with intense moisture and high winds, however weather readings don't capture this truely, our only South West weather station sits at just 300m. Mt Anne stands 1100m higher.

The scrub is definately like no where else, although I have heard the many stories of the TNQ, it sounds equally gnarly. I think maybe the reason why Tasmania collects more recognition for it, is because around 35% of the State is covered in the nasty stuff. STS probably say that such a large percentage of their returns come from Tasmania because more Tasmanians use Gaiters than Mainlanders.

But back on the track of the argument, any about 800m in Tasmania should be considered 'altitude' and anything above 600m in the South West. I've been to over 6000m in the Himalayas before, whilst the weather there at times of the year are very vicious, its the fact that other times of the year you can expect cold but clear days. Almost guaranteed. When I was in Nepal, it was as low as -20 degrees, but I've been colder in Tasmania at 0 degrees with the wind chill.

Peace

[ILUVSWTAS]

Beautifully written and some wonderful points NickD!

[north-north-west]

Well said, Nicky boy.
Someone give that man a beer.