Is Ultra Lightweight Bushwalking Too risky?

[flyfisher]

Hey Climberman, did you feed those grommets in between posts.
ff

[Macca81]

* if my waist belt breaks I have a spare buckle

i keep seeing this, and i cant keep quiet on it any more!

has ANYONE ever broken a belt buckle on a walk? i have had breakages a few times, on a cheap pack i had a number of bits of hardwear break over a few walks, but i have NEVER seen a belt buckle break! the little adjusters on shoulder straps, the zips, the toggles on drawstrings, the stiching, even an internal frame rod pop out, but never the belt buckle... it is always the most sturdy bit on a pack IMHO!

[north-north-west]

the Rugby League

For god's sake when are the mods going to step in and remove this filth?! Consider this flagged!!!

Slimeys fan!

[photohiker]

has ANYONE ever broken a belt buckle on a walk?

Nope. And even if it did, nothing a bit of spare tent line wouldn't patch.

I've thought about carrying a spare tent in case the main one gets struck by lightning... How about a complete spare pack in case yours gets lost in the river or snitched while you're off peak bagging...

[north-north-west]

Do you believe it is OK for someone to have to risk their life for you because you have pushed the boundaries and made mistake and failed??????

To be really technical here: no-one has to risk their life to attempt a rescue. For one thing, the first principle of rescue and first aid is to ensure one's own safety first. Logically, if the rescuer is suitably efficient, their own life is not at risk. Also, they are, one way or another, volunteers - either civilians or personnel who have applied to join, and been specifically trained for, rescue teams. It's their choice.

[Swifty]

no

[climberman]

* if my waist belt breaks I have a spare buckle

i keep seeing this, and i cant keep quiet on it any more!

has ANYONE ever broken a belt buckle on a walk?

I broke one in the rear door of the station wagon on the way home from a walk once.

[kanangra]

Really happy to see all these Sea Eagle fans coming out of the closet. GO THE MIGHTY MANLY!!

K

[climberman]

Really happy to see all these Sea Eagle fans coming out of the closet. GO THE MIGHTY MANLY!!

K

No closet is big enough for the Manly-Warringah supporter. We threw off the shakles of the Beagles and march onwards to future glory. Or something like that.

[Nuts]

I snapped the big one on my WE pack once. It would still hold with one edge of what remained, popping open occasionally. Lasted another year or so like that ...
These are always the sort of topics that get responses but the questions have been mostly answered before. Im supprised by the amount of energy that some put into responding.

My old wilderness equipment pack would have had to weigh 3kg. It was necessary for loads of 30+kg.
While some of the 3kg first aid kit was useful (perhaps not 'necessary') I consider those sort weights just too risky these days

Roosters!

[alliecat]

This is essentially an argument from ignorance. You "suspect" and you "fear" but you have presented precisely zero evidence to support your opinion. Are you aware of a single instance in Tas (or elsewhere in Australia) where a bushwalkwer has got into difficulty because they had lightweight gear? What's your definition of lightweight anyway? Until you actually present some facts your argument has no substance at all and you are just making noise.
Alliecat

You are making lots of assumptions here and generalisations. You have miissd the point of a forum as being a place where issues can be raised without fear of being ridiculed!

There are no assumptions or generalisations in what i wrote. You used the words "suspect" and"fear" - I just quoted your own words. You have still provided zero evidence to support your (incredibly patronising) view. Plenty of people have provided their own experience that contradicts your views, so you really haven't contributed anything except an unsupported opinion.

Here's a hint - if you want to start a discussion rather than an argument, try starting with a post that doesn't insult a group of people!

Alliecat

[ollster]

Ultra/lightweight doesn't necessarily mean "stupid gear choices". Just like carrying 30kgs doesn't ensure you haven't left stuff behind, and 5kg of that might be some rubbish car camping tent.

However, sacrificing equipment performance and durability or even leaving items at home in order to save a few kg will eventually get found out when the your-know-what hits the fan. I would expect the people I walk with to take appropriate equipment in order for they as individuals to survive for a few days or extract themselves with no outside assistance (assuming a multi-day walk). If this minimum standard isn't reached then they shouldn't be in the field.

[Azza]

I think you need to consider both extremes - and be sensible about it.

If you can cope with a bit of discomfort going ultra-light then thats fine as long as you cover the minimal survival requirements and know what your signing up for.

The flip side of that is that I've seen so many people over pack with 30kg of crap - which has lead to injuries due to being overloaded.
Then rest of us end up carrying their junk and then there is the potential need for a helicopter rescue - I think this probably occurs more often the ultra-light case getting into trouble.
Usually the person that gets caught out is the inexperienced in over their heads and under preprepared.
Inexperiened + ultra light + SW/W Tasmania = disaster waiting to happen.

[Bush Walker]

Thanks Azza. I agree with your point of view

Nice to see some balance to the discussion.

[Bush Walker]

Dear Thread

I posted this topic because I felt it needed some genuine discussion and open mindedness. Thank you to those who have responded. If you have not yet read my original post, please do so before you comment

I was expecting some intensity in the discussion but I was surprised that some took the discussion so personally. I could reflect on why they took it so personally, but that would be another topic and require a brave person to start it.

I certainly didn't intent by implication or otherwise to "insult" those who quite rightly aim to reduce their weight but are not prepared to compromise on safety to achieve it.

It is a pity that it appears to be "politically incorrect" to suggest that some ultra-lightweight walkers may be taking things a bit too far and that some may need to think of the consequences of pushing the boundaries.

As I said earlier, I agree wholeheartedly with the concept of trying to reduce pack weight and achieve this myself by carefully evaluating the risks in each walk and choosing appropriate gear, depending on the circumstances.

[Bush Walker]

Ultra/lightweight doesn't necessarily mean "stupid gear choices". Just like carrying 30kgs doesn't ensure you haven't left stuff behind, and 5kg of that might be some rubbish car camping tent.
However, sacrificing equipment performance and durability or even leaving items at home in order to save a few kg will eventually get found out when the your-know-what hits the fan. I would expect the people I walk with to take appropriate equipment in order for they as individuals to survive for a few days or extract themselves with no outside assistance (assuming a multi-day walk). If this minimum standard isn't reached then they shouldn't be in the field.

Well said!

[Lizzy]

I think nearly everyone is heading down the lighter pathway- look at all the people on this forum trying tarptents, neoairs, sleeping bags such as Westeren Mountainering or other brands using higher quality down or lighter fabric. We may not all be UL'ers but most of us are trying new things as we find a reduced load increase enjoyment, reduces strain and opens up options such as longer trips, taking along kids etc. We must remember that a person with a 4 season tent does not necessarily know how to put it up properly or protect their 2 kg winter bag from getting wet & useless.
I have found by weighing things I really take a good look at what I have- recently I reduced my first aid kit. I was carrying a ridiculous amount of stuff just because that was what I was used to and I just hadn't bothered to go through it. By reassessing and weighing items I could better judge what I might really need.
So my opinion- like any bushwalking you are taking a risk and people need to use their own good judgement & experience to make their own decisions or advise members of their group (if they are the leader or have more experience). So in the right hands UL bushwalking is not too risky at all and lighter bushwalking can be enjoyed by all with these people pioneering the way, testing equipment & giving us all a chance to more fully enjoy our walking.
Thanks UL'ers
Lizzy

[alliecat]

There is a inverse correlation between the degree of risk you take and pack weight. The lighter your pack the more likely you are to be ill prepared!

(Personal attack removed by admin)

I certainly didn't intent by implication or otherwise to "insult" those who quite rightly aim to reduce their weight but are not prepared to compromise on safety to achieve it.

Contradiction much?

I could reflect on why they took it so personally, but that would be another topic and require a brave person to start it.

(Personal attack removed by admin)

[Son of a Beach]

This topic has been degenerating for some time. Although some of the topic matter is worthy of discussion, it is difficult to see any such valuable discussion coming from it at this point, and it appears that it will only degenerate further, therefore it has been locked.

If people wish to continue the discussion of such issues, please post a new topic with a slightly different slant... If doing so, please consider being more specific about the nature of the contention. For example, stating which specific items should never be left behind in order to be safe, or what qualities/properties/characteristics a particular item must have to make it safe enough.

Although a consensus on such things is never going to materialise, it does have potential for informative discussion, provided people are able to control their emotions and keep the personal attacks and insinuations out of it, and keep everything polite and friendly. (This comment is not aimed at any one person, as there are a number of transgressors in this topic, provoked, or otherwise.)