Bushwalking Clubs: the good, bad and the ugly

[Bush Walker]

Thanks so much for your very thoughtful and interesting insights into bushwalking from a teenager's perspective.

My Friends
Those people who do nothing are in most cases a minority, and maybe in some circles it may take younger people years to discover the beauty of the outdoors but im fortunate this is not my case. I find if i want to go bushwalking with friends (the sort who are happy to be in the outdoors in moderation but dont find it natural to them) I have to be NICE to them and help them into the whole outdoors thing.

This is a very reassuring statement and one which people who work with younger people eg Scouts, schools should take on board.

I find when I have been on trips with older people ( and this is just on SOME trips, but it dosent take much to discourage a young person) a young person might complain about something trivial and get bashed on by a older person, I was on my first hike on the Bibbulmun with my school and one of the older people looking after us just made it hell for the younger people there and i could just tell that they weren't going to be hiking again anytime soon, my brother was extremely discouraged a swell and It has taken me a long time to get him to go on another hike. If i go on a hike with friends I give them very specific instructions on what to bring as to make it more comfortable so that they might like to go again.

This unfortunately is the attitude of a minority of older people who can't tolerate or adapt to the different ways of thinking that younger people have. Many organisation are trying to tackle this problem and one that comes to mind is the CFA (Country Fire Authority) in Victoria.This is also one of the reasons that bushwalking clubs need to set up "clubs within clubs' for younger people as several Clubs have already done so.

But with young people you do really have to be patient or they will lose interest easily.

This is the value of a Club having a Facebook page so that potential new and younger members can be welcomed by the FB "host" and other young members and encouraged to come to an introductory meeting with other young people. Young people on first Club walks need to have a young "mentor" assigned for the reasons you mention above and perhaps encouraged to bring a friend.

Thanks for your contribution to solving the problem of a lack of young people in Clubs and for fitting it around your busy gaming schedule, which I suspect had just finished when you wrote this. Any other suggestions you have would be most welcome.

[Bush Walker]

But you still havn't answered ANY of my queries?? why the one way information traffic??

I have given a detailed response to your questions in a previous post on January 10

[Bush Walker]

Thanks wayno for your detailed response and perspective from that of new Club member.

there are more sports now that barely existed or didnt exist decades ago, theres a lot more disciplines to choose from now i've seen one club take off through facebook, redirecting younger people away from a main club, it was a less structured setup

Using social media to find new members is the way to go IMHO!

just observing clubs it's obvious that there are far less young people in them now. i'm 43 and am often the youngest person at club meetings....
i've seen clubs that do little to nothing to encourage young people. they turn up and don't come back, they arent that interested in putting on trips for them that meet their needs and lack of fitness, ...theres little focus on the needs of the budding tramper,other sports look at more how they can do things the way the new comers want.... they encourage everyone no matter what they want to do.
everyone has to start somewhere, and how you treat those starters makes all the difference to how your club will thrive or otherwise.

Total agreement with you. See my comments to mattmacman on this point.

...clubs need to think about initiatives for younger people. selling them gear as cheaply as possible so they can tramp in the first place.

Many Clubs hire gear which is great for new walkers who are unsure whether they want to continue.

[davidmorr]

This is the value of a Club having a Facebook page so that potential new and younger members can be welcomed by the FB "host" and other young members and encouraged to come to an introductory meeting with other young people. Young people on first Club walks need to have a young "mentor" assigned for the reasons you mention above and perhaps encouraged to bring a friend.

There you go again. A couple of people make very interesting comments and the answer is..... come on, try to guess.... yes, it's Facebook!!!!

But interestingly, mattmacman didn't even mention social media as a factor. What he wants is to be accepted as an equal and helped when he needs it. And this is exactly the same thing new members of any age want.

I have no doubt that some clubs are full of prats, but equally some clubs are welcoming and supportive. However, the clubs that are full of prats will often have a few good people, and the good clubs a few prats. Just like any subgroup of society. So it is a case of finding the good people, or finding a better club.

Don't give up mattmacman! I didn't start walking until I was 30, and wish I had started many years earlier. All those things that I missed out on.....

[wayno]

there are some smaller clubs that impose high joining fees, up to $200, the reason being in NZ a group of about a dozen people can get together in a small club and vote the curent executive out and vote themselves in and take over the club, there has been the odd case of this happening where small clubs have had valuable assets such as vehicle and huts at desireable locations....
obviously it's a double edged sword, it stops a lot of people from joining the club , keeps out the people you want as well as the ones you don't... but if numbers werent increasing anyway and you're worried about being taken over by outsiders....

[wayno]

http://www.meetup.com is another site that is geared towards activity groups organising events online, some groups will use the site as their main means of organising trips... seems to attract a lot of people, i've seen much bigger groups for hiking on there than on facebook.
I havent been to any of the events myself. from what i've heard you have high membership no's and a much smaller no of people attenting trips.
a club i've been asociated with had limited success on facebook and the no's seem to have stalled but a younger offshoot group had more success, perhaps because younger people were more familiar with the internet and facebook

[Bush Walker]

Thanks wayno for the input

http://www.meetup.com is another site that is geared towards activity groups organising events online, some groups will use the site as their main means of organising trips... seems to attract a lot of people, i've seen much bigger groups for hiking on there than on facebook.
I havent been to any of the events myself. from what i've heard you have high membership no's and a much smaller no of people attenting trips.
a club i've been asociated with had limited success on facebook and the no's seem to have stalled but a younger offshoot group had more success, perhaps because younger people were more familiar with the internet and facebook

MeetUp works well for some walking groups but I've heard comments that many of the bushwalking meetup groups listed are inactive. Your comment about younger people being more involved in Facebook supports my intuitive feeling and the proposition that Club's using social media could attract more younger members.

[north-north-west]

So history tells us that participation in bushwalking peaks at ages 45-54.

So I'll be walking less and less from now on? Good thing I got the kayak in that case.

[ULWalkingPhil]

So history tells us that participation in bushwalking peaks at ages 45-54.

So I'll be walking less and less from now on? Good thing I got the kayak in that case.

if these statistics are true, I'll be walking more.

[wayno]

Thanks wayno for the input

http://www.meetup.com is another site that is geared towards activity groups organising events online, some groups will use the site as their main means of organising trips... seems to attract a lot of people, i've seen much bigger groups for hiking on there than on facebook.
I havent been to any of the events myself. from what i've heard you have high membership no's and a much smaller no of people attenting trips.
a club i've been asociated with had limited success on facebook and the no's seem to have stalled but a younger offshoot group had more success, perhaps because younger people were more familiar with the internet and facebook

MeetUp works well for some walking groups but I've heard comments that many of the bushwalking meetup groups listed are inactive. Your comment about younger people being more involved in Facebook supports my intuitive feeling and the proposition that Club's using social media could attract more younger members.

possibly, if you run your facebook page the right way,, a club i was involved with, didnt get much repsonse, but i've seen another club in the area that is for under forties has taken off, they are associated with a tertiary institution so word of mouth might have helped there as well. they tried to bring people into the main club for all ages, they were started as a recruiting wing for the younger people. but hasnt worked, the young want to stay with the young it seems....
one thing of note, a lot of immigrants have trouble finding local bushwalking groups because they are looking for "hiking, backpacking or trekking groups" use the name tramping for your groups and you stand to have the immigrants not find you on the internet.

[Wolfix]

I'm 28 now so not really a young person any more, but I straddle Gen-X and Gen-Y so I guess my input could help.

There is no greater turn-off for youth than old people trying to think like a young person. Regarding social media, the success of this media has been the ability for the target audience to establish and propagate the sites and generate popularity amongst themselves. Unless you're a huge marketing firm who can mimick the target audience, you don't have much of a hope in designing an online campaign to appeal to those 20 years your juniors.

That said, social media can be effective if the language is genuine and appropriate for the author. Gen-Y (let's face it, Gen-X is not today's youth) isn't entirely ageist, ignorant or lazy. Many of them are keen to participate with their learned elders to gain skills and knowledge and have a great experience. As it keeps being said, all they need is not to be patronised.

Having a committee member in your club who is younger (and young-minded, not a 15-going-on-60-yr-old) to advise on recruitment and to represent the youth in your club.

***

Now, the other "good, bad and ugly" of clubs for me:

GOOD
* likeminded people
* women only
* experienced leadership
* gentle leadership
* comprehensive reports and calendar
* range of walk grades
* range of rambles, walks and treks
* walks mid-week (I work retail!!)
* scaled fee structure or no fees

BAD
* cliquey members
* disorganisation
* lack of sense of community
* poor communication
* limited range of walks

UGLY
* lack of women
* only hardcore walks
* inexperienced leaders
* snobbery
* only easy walks
* flat rate fees (can't make most walks)

[Bush Walker]

Thanks Wolfix for your input.

Your points about the difficulty of a social media recruiting campaign for Club membership are particularly relevant.

Hopefully, there would not be many clubs who would not welcome any "young" person volunteering to be a committee member, as there is no doubt in my mind that a youth focus, initiated by one or more younger committee members, is essential in any club which is going to continue to grow. Whether younger committee members would be patronised would more likely depend on the inadequacies of individual committee members, and the ability of other committee members to support new committee members. Ideally, each club should be positively discriminating to encourage a diverse committee with nominal positions retained for women and younger members.

I have elsewhere supported the need for "Clubs within Clubs" such as under 35, women only, retired etc as I believe these allow like-minded members to increase their social interaction and enjoyment. Not everyone wants to mix with a diverse range of walkers on every walk.

Your other "good, bad and ugly" likes/dislikes, should be reviewed by all club committees to see if they apply and need to be addressed.

Thanks again for some great new ideas and for reinforcing others.

[clarence]

Outdoor recreation has changed hugely in the last 20 years. There has been a very distinct move away from purist/traditional pursuits towards more extreme "quick thrill" adventures. The outdoor industry has had to evolve to stay relevant to these changes, catering more to a fashion/trend market than down-to-earth functionality. The increase in popularity of sport climbing (vs trad climbing) and adventure sports generally is testament to this. When I bought some natural climbing gear recently it had been on the shelf for months. In the 90s the same shop sold a set every few weeks.

Some walking clubs are failing to stay relevant by recognising these shifts in outdoor activities. It is not just an age-specific issue. Go to any adventure race and you will see a fair chunk of competitors over 40.

The outdoor industry is forced to stay relevant by the market, if they didn't they would soon be dead.

Walking clubs which do not stay relevant will eventually end up dead too (as some should be).

I have been involved in two walking clubs over the years, but for the majority of my 20+ years of outdoor acitivites have operated as a free agent.

In the last club (which I left mid 2011) I was involved in a bid to bring some changes to it to make it more relevant. The club has complained about increasing average age and decreasing membership for years. Yet the opposition to change from the "old guard" was huge. The club operated on essentially the same model it has used for over 30 years. It has a constitution of some thirty pages, a list of executive officers and committess as long as your arm (including a "data officer" and librarian), the walks commitee programs the activites up to five months in advance with no flexibility at all, and it regularly takes trips with over 20 people. Hardly a modern and flexible system.

For a coordinator/leader, a written trip preview and review is required for every outing for publication in the club magazine, a verbal presentation before AND after the trip must be given at a meeting and then calls must be taken from any prospective walkers leading up to the trip and a trip participation list must be sent to 2 out of three nominated reps prior to the trip departure. Monies from the walkers must be collected and then submitted to the treasurer after the trip with the trip participation list, which is then given to the data officer for collation. It does not matter what age or demographic we are talking about, most people just don't want to be bothered with all this crap.

If an outdoor business operated on a business model from 1980 stocked full of Lowe Cerro Torre packs, petzl zooms and skinny XC touring skis they'd last about five minutes. If businesses do not adapt quickly, they're history. One or two seasons of buying stock the market doesn't want and you're quickly finished. Walking clubs can get away with an outdated operational model a bit longer (depending on how long the "hangers on" keep hanging on), but the fate will be the same. A basic matter of supply and demand.

Clubs need to ask what is their "core business". Is it walking or is it something else (like hanging on to the memory of what the club once was)? If the core business is walking, there are far better models to acheive the results (such as person hours spent walking) than the models some clubs use.

When the BADs and UGLYs are so entrenched, there have to be a lot of GOODs to offset them. The bureuacracy and inflexibility of the clubs are the well recognised UGLYs (to at least some degree). One of the key GOODs is upskilling members to make them self sufficient. This last club (despite having a safety and training officer) took trips with huge numbers in a "follow the leader" style, with only a handful that were even capable of reading a map. Another important GOOD is hire/loan gear. Again, apart from a skanky old coat in the back of the bus, this club had no hire gear. I wonder how many other clubs fit into this category of several BAD/ULGYs and few GOODs?

I now operate again as a free agent with an email list of eager participants. I am doing far more walking, and the only paperwork I do is for my business. I can do the trips I want, with the people I want, and we are always teaching and learning skills from other regulars. Furthermore, there are no drongos I have to tolerate (and lets face it, all clubs have drongos to some degree, which is usually a greater proportion than the national average).

Clarence

[Bush Walker]

Thanks Clarence for your thoughtful input.

Your analogy between the fate of an outdoors shop selling outdated gear and a bushwalking club offering activities or organisational structures that people no longer want is very true. It is indeed disappointing when the "old guard" insist on retaining organisational models and hierarchies, which as you indicate, have been used for the last 30 years. Busy people want to belong to a "club" which is more responsive, pro-active to their needs and in which they can participate and contribute, in their own way.

Many people like you are discouraged from participating in walking clubs by the bureaucracy that membership often requires. From this have evolved many ad hoc "clubs" where activities are arranged using social media, often with no hierarchical structures and usually with minimal notice. Social media can help bring ageing bushwalking clubs into the 21st century.