Bushwalk Australia

Hello all,

What are peoples experiences with driving to tracks/campgrounds? Will I be severely limited to where I can travel if I have a 2WD? I am new to Australia and am researching buying my first car here. I am purchasing this car solely so I can hike and camp throughout Australia. I get 3 weeks off at a time so plan to travel all over Australia, however, I live in Adelaide. I really don't want to spend more than 12k on a vehicle so if I purchase a 4WD I would have some concerns about reliability whereas I can purchase a much newer 2WD in that price range. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

ajl492

Hi there. In my view there aren't many places in Australia that you can't get to with a reasonable 2WD vehicle. Twenty/thirty or more years ago things were very different, but there has been a dramatic change in road/track quality throughout Australia, and in the capabilities of modern 2WD vehicles. Some people want to perpetuate the myth that a 4WD is required once you are off the bitumen, or past the end of the tram tracks, but it is a fallacy.

As far back as 1995, our family travelled around Australia in a Volvo 245 station wagon when parts of the Stuart Highway were still rough dirt, with not so much as a flat tyre, and again in 1996 we traced the route of Burke and Wills from Melbourne to Burketown (as close as we could) in a Subaru Leone, then across the Gulf etc with no problems.

I don't think you'll be limiting yourself getting to the start of any walk by buying a 2WD vehicle.

alanoutgear wrote:Some people want to perpetuate the myth that a 4WD is required once you are off the bitumen, or past the end of the tram tracks, but it is a fallacy.

Interesting point of view to a city folk like me. I think you are right. I have driven some unsealed roads around the country through the years with FWD vehicles (private or rental) and each time I have been filled with trepidation but have all turned out well, with worthwhile rewards at the end of those roads. Thinking back, the "myth" was to blame. I am sure there are many roads/tracks that are truly unsuitable for 2WD vehicles but they aren't all run-of-the-mill unsealed roads. Obviously prevailing weather condition needs to be considered too.

I think alot of people compromise by getting smaller 4wd type vehicles. Subaru 4wds seem to be pretty popular.
You might be able to find one of these in your price range. Would be handy to have something you could sleep in when required too.
A 4wd toyota hilux with a canopy on the back might be another option.

GPSGuided wrote:

alanoutgear wrote:Some people want to perpetuate the myth that a 4WD is required once you are off the bitumen, or past the end of the tram tracks, but it is a fallacy.

Interesting point of view to a city folk like me. I think you are right. I have driven some unsealed roads around the country through the years with FWD vehicles (private or rental) and each time I have been filled with trepidation but have all turned out well, with worthwhile rewards at the end of those roads. Thinking back, the "myth" was to blame. I am sure there are many roads/tracks that are truly unsuitable for 2WD vehicles but they aren't all run-of-the-mill unsealed roads. Obviously prevailing weather condition needs to be considered too.

I think you can get a decent 2wd down most tracks if you're careful. The problem is that 1% of situations where you do get stuck.
Being on your own 15km down some dirt track with a non-functioning car would be a massive pain to deal with.
The NRMA/RACV etc dont go down these tracks ; ) I guess having a 4wd improves your chances that little bit more.

In the past I owned a 4wd and in reality the biggest benefit was ground clearance and the robust
construction. These days I drive a VS Commodore Station Wagon on dual fuel and there's
not many places I can't go. When it gets so tough I can't get there it's probably time I started
walking anyway. I suggest looking for a shorter wheel base non sporty type (not low slung) with
good ground clearance and strength. Some good tyres and maybe snow/mud chains just in case.

Never ceases to amaze me how many Subaru Foresters you see parked at trail heads.

Having driven a Forester on wet dirt roads the difference in handling between it and a rear or front wheel drive is significant.

I agree with nelimny if the road is too rough for a car maybe it is time to get out and walk.

Years ago I worked with a guy who drove his Ford Telstar to Cape York. As the old proverb says: you never know the capabilities of your vehicle till it breaks.

Funny I was thinking that a Forrester would be a good choice
but I thought the price tag might be a bit high.
Even the old Brumby isn't a bad bush basher from what I understand.

I have no affiliation with caresales.com but here's one just show you
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/deta ... 5464/?Cr=5

I have owned a few older model 2wd vehicles. Since they were old, I didn't care about pushing them to their limits on dirt roads - if I owned a nicer, newer 2wd, I probably would be a bit more hesitant. We had many fun trips out to Newnes and Colo during wet weather with a 2wd!

You can expect to get more flat tyres because most 2wd tyres aren't designed for the repeated impact of stones and corrugations. Lowering your tyre pressure is an option but can be dangerous for lower profile 2wd tyres.

I now have a small 4wd (Daihatsu Feroza) and will never go back to a 2wd. I don't think I would be up-sizing to a larger 4wd either due to the fuel economy issues.

You will also be doing less damage to main roads (like Kanangra Walls Road, Glowworm Tunnel Road, Megalong Valley Road etc.). Skid marks and ruts are a common sight on these roads during wet weekends. (This would only apply if you engage 4wd earlier rather than only when absolutely necessary).

A Subaru will get you most places. The extra ground clearance and low range gearbox of a larger 4wd opens up a lot of options for some really fun trips to amazing places. There are also regulatory benefits for when venturing to the alpine areas.

michael_p wrote: I agree with nelimny if the road is too rough for a car maybe it is time to get out and walk.

I agree to an extent, but if there's still a further 30km+ of rough track, I think I'd prefer the driving option.

Agree with some other comments.. I own a forester and its brilliant .. not many places i cant get in it.. the only thing is water crossings .. then i struggle.
You could easily pick yourself up a very nice Foz for under 12g..
Another option would be a mitsubishi challenger . they are a very capable 4x4 , ive been right across the Victorian high coutry in one , never once with a problem .
They are slightly smaller than most your big 4x4's but this shorter wheelbase can be an advantage .

noodle07 wrote: not many places i cant get in it.. the only thing is water crossings .. then i struggle.

If you're really keen, you can pack a tarp to make a temporary water shield over the grille (a "water bra"). This works for small crossings as long as you don't stop!

neilmny wrote:I suggest looking for a shorter wheel base

I wouldn't. The only thing SWB have going for them is a good ramp-over angle. Apart from that, they ride rough and have an increased propensity to do 180 degree turns unexpectedly.

Hi all, lots of good points from members there. I own a heavyweight 4wd and use it on bush tracks such as Adamsfield, but I also own a Hiace van and with good tyres and a bit of weight in the back it will go anywhere its possible to get a 2wd. Used for many fishing trips where an advantage is the room to sleep in the back plus carry plenty of gear. I can't think of a walking track in Tassie that I couldn't get to. A Tirfor winch or similar is always good for extra insurance, as is an axe or bowsaw in case a tree is across trhe road either coming or going.
FF

Strider wrote:

neilmny wrote:I suggest looking for a shorter wheel base

I wouldn't. The only thing SWB have going for them is a good ramp-over angle. Apart from that, they ride rough and have an increased propensity to do 180 degree turns unexpectedly.

I hope that's not personal experience there Strider.. ...but theres an awful lot of rally drivers who would disagree with you.
I think if a car gets spun around in the bush it's because it's not being driven appropriately for the conditions.
Bush driving requires a lot of concentration and skill, the ground clearance is the most important element for getting you along rough tracks.

neilmny wrote:

Strider wrote:

neilmny wrote:I suggest looking for a shorter wheel base

I wouldn't. The only thing SWB have going for them is a good ramp-over angle. Apart from that, they ride rough and have an increased propensity to do 180 degree turns unexpectedly.

I hope that's not personal experience there Strider.. ...but theres an awful lot of rally drivers who would disagree with you.
I think if a car gets spun around in the bush it's because it's not being driven appropriately for the conditions.
Bush driving requires a lot of concentration and skill, the ground clearance is the most important element for getting you along rough tracks.

Personal experience at 100km/h in the wet!

Ground clearance is important, but not worth sacrificing other areas for IMO.

Strider wrote:

neilmny wrote:

Strider wrote:[quote="neilmny"]I suggest looking for a shorter wheel base

I wouldn't. The only thing SWB have going for them is a good ramp-over angle. Apart from that, they ride rough and have an increased propensity to do 180 degree turns unexpectedly.

I hope that's not personal experience there Strider.. ...but theres an awful lot of rally drivers who would disagree with you.
I think if a car gets spun around in the bush it's because it's not being driven appropriately for the conditions.
Bush driving requires a lot of concentration and skill, the ground clearance is the most important element for getting you along rough tracks.

Personal experience at 100km/h in the wet!

Ground clearance is important, but not worth sacrificing other areas for IMO. Want more clearance, fit bigger tyres[/quote]

Holy mackerel Strider, I hope that wasn't on a rough bush track
I've got the feeling it's not something you'd ever forget!

Strider is definitely correct about the rampover angle, my van is the shorter hiace and has surprisingly good under body clearance (for a 2wd)
To do a 180 was not driving to the conditions, but tyres are a big factor, some light truck tyres for commercials have so little grip as to be dangerous.
Take care, know your vehicle and if needs be slow down. But the bottom line is trat almost all tracks can be reached in a properly set up 2wd.
(And I am a 4wd club member)
FF

I have a Subaru Forrester XT. Lift kit, replaced the plastic sump guard with aluminium plate and a set of snow chains for really muddy tracks. Explored mny old mining tracks on the west coast with it. Great car to get groceries then head scrub.
Shane
wildaboutoutdoors.com

Tassiedevil wrote:Lift kit

I thought Forester's had torsion bars all round?

More than 4WD or 2WD, in most situation it's about 3 factors : ground clearance, the suspensions, and the tires. Ground clearance helps you with potholes and big rocks. The suspensions help you smooth out corrugations : on my last trip in WA, I had a flat tire at Karijini, and had to switch from a toyota corolla to a camry with Hertz. The camry had much better suspensions (and bigger wheels), the difference was immense on corrugations, people often forget about that. Subaru tend to have very good suspensions, and good build quality, as most Japanese cars. Tires are also key : you need to monitor air pressure, and lower it before going on unknown unsealed roads. Fat tires help prevent punctures as well. The thin tires you see on sport cars would be useless on rough unsealed roads.

Now when would you really need a 4WD with high clearance ? There are a couple of famous places : Purnululu in the Kimberley, some tracks at Kakadu, the Simpson Desert, Rudall River, the Canning Stock Route etc... But many 4WD tracks can be used by vehicles like the Forrester, the Impreza, or the Legacy Outback : Francois Peron, the Gibb River Road, the Flinders Ranges, the main roads on Cape Yorke Peninsula, etc...

My suggestion is that you look for common vehicles found in Australia on your budget : the Forrester, the Outback, then a big 4WD like a Toyota Hilux or a Nissan Patrol. Then make your choice depending on what's available.

There are some amazing places in Australia that you can only get to with a 'proper' 4WD, but on the other hand, there are a multitude of wonderful places that a 2WD can get to. Perhaps you should check out some 4WD publications and see what you would be missing out on and decide whether it's worth buying one. You are right, they are can be more expensive to get an equivalently reliable one and expensive to maintain, but they can take you some amazing places, but then there are a lot of wonderful places you can get to with a 2WD as well, especially if you're willing to walk. You could always get an all wheel drive or high clearance 2WD and see how frustrated you get by its limitations. You just can't get quite as remote as you can with a 4WD.

Hallu wrote:My suggestion is that you look for common vehicles found in Australia on your budget : the Forrester, the Outback, then a big 4WD like a Toyota Hilux or a Nissan Patrol.

Unsure if English is your first language or not, but the correct term is THAN. The word THEN would mean you to say he should look for a Hilux/Patrol in addition to, though after, looking for your prior suggestions.

One of my pet peeves!

I have a Forester that I love, but that my wife steals, leaving me with an old Ford Falcon for most trips. It's done some truly brutal dirt roads over the years. There are very few roads other that actual 4wd tracks that can't be done with a decent 2wd (assume it has reasonable clearance).

Strider wrote:

Hallu wrote:My suggestion is that you look for common vehicles found in Australia on your budget : the Forrester, the Outback, then a big 4WD like a Toyota Hilux or a Nissan Patrol.

Unsure if English is your first language or not, but the correct term is THAN. The word THEN would mean you to say he should look for a Hilux/Patrol in addition to, though after, looking for your prior suggestions.

One of my pet peeves!

my pet peeve is people having a grizzle over nothing

Hah yep...

4WD's I have owned a Toyoya Hilux and now a Landcruiser as well as various 2WD's and an SUV.

For bushwalking tracks 2WD is always fine, best feature for a bushwalkers car is to have one you can sleep in, a wagon/van/ute, very handy for when you arrive at a track head late and are doing your walking the next day or traveling around. A 4WD just helps you get that bit further and to some more unusual places. Many forestry/hydro roads aren't suitable for a low clearance vehicle or 2WD so a 4WD can save literally days of boring walking and gets you to the good bits quicker. For 'real' 4WDing you need to know what you are doing or they will get you in more trouble than they are worth, a lot of people think they can go anywhere/do anything and come unstuck very quickly.

Strider wrote:

Hallu wrote:My suggestion is that you look for common vehicles found in Australia on your budget : the Forrester, the Outback, then a big 4WD like a Toyota Hilux or a Nissan Patrol.

Unsure if English is your first language or not, but the correct term is THAN. The word THEN would mean you to say he should look for a Hilux/Patrol in addition to, though after, looking for your prior suggestions.

One of my pet peeves!

Well yeah that's what I meant. Look for the so called AWD vehicles THEN the big *&%$#! high clearance 4x4s.

I wouldn't let 2wd vs 4wd be the determining factor between which car to buy. If you car get a far better value 2wd car go for it. I recently changed from an old POS 2wd car to a AWD Outback and it hasn't made to many differences where I can and cant go. The times I struggled (but still made it) in the 2wd car was in snow, where the AWD would have been advantageous but a pair of chains would have been just as good (if you an get a Toyota Tarago with chains up some of NZ's club ski fields then you don't need AWD for snow). And then the times ive struggled in the Outback its been because of deep water crossings/potholes which would have been the same in my 2wd car.

Strider, Short wheel base cars spin out? Mate, following on from the other talk of RWD/FWD, I think you need to stop watching TopGear and realise that if a car spins out because of either its wheelbase being short or RWD vs FWD then its not the cars fault, the blame lies purely with the driver

frenchy_84 wrote:Strider, Short wheel base cars spin out? Mate, following on from the other talk of RWD/FWD, I think you need to stop watching TopGear and realise that if a car spins out because of either its wheelbase being short or RWD vs FWD then its not the cars fault, the blame lies purely with the driver

Or with the conditions, or the state of its suspension and/or tyres...

FYI, I don't watch Top Gear.

Nope that's still the driver, it's up to the driver to read the conditions and adjust speed accordingly. And if the driver is driving unroadworthy vehicle than that is also his fault he would also be a dick