Bushwalk Australia

A while ago on the American gear testing blog outdoorgearlab, you could see for some of their gear review that it could be used for "fast hiking". And now gear brands are launching a whole new geartype just for "fast hiking". According to this video by Millet : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQTCNgBIb8w it's basically clocking the best time on a given hike with breathable gear, hiking poles and low shoes, similar to trail running shoes, but you're not supposed to run. I've seen it now mentioned on some French websites.

I honestly don't see the point and think it's rubbish, or borderline dangerous. It seems to come from the US, but if you've been to Yosemite or any mountainous national park in the US, you know their walking tracks are in very good condition, and are very wide. Have you ever seen it in Australia or NZ ? I haven't, and I haven't in Europe either. To me it's a dangerous practice if done in Europeans mountains : our tracks are in poor nick, often really narrow, vertiginous, or unstable like in boulder fields. A group of fast hikers there would erode the track more quickly that regular hikers, and on steep boulder fields and moraine, there's a chance of rock falling on other walkers below them. But Millet, Merrell, Salomon, La Sportiva and others jumped on the occasion, launching "fast hiking shoes", or new breathable jackets and shirts... I wonder what's next : fast snowshoeing ? Maybe dozens of deaths by skiing-triggered-avalanches in the Alps each year isn't enough...

My thought on it is that's it's been basically made up by gear brands and that it has no base in reality. I've never seen a fast hiker like on Millet's youtube video, never heard of people joining a "fast hiking club" or anything like that. And if you google it, you'll barely find anything else than gear webshops. Have you guys ever encountered fast hiking enthusiasts ?

you've got the likes of killian jornet who is sponsored by Salomon putting out videos of him running up mountains to break records including the matterhorn with very little gear, he had to be rescued once in a storm when he got hypthermic and the weather was too bad to continue, there is a trend for speed from an element of outdoors athletes. margins for error are much slimmer without full overnight hiking gear, if you get imobilised, your margins for survival are thin or non existant

Wayno, strongly agree. Tramping, bushwalking, hiking - the name is unimportant. What they have in common is a generally slow paced journey to appreciate the environment, often in sharp contrast to the rush and nervous haste that many of us are required to undertake in our daily lives. Running in the mountains is not tramping et al; it's closer to a sport.

A few years ago I camped on the summit of Mt Bogong, Victoria's highest peak. It was a little windy but very managable, with a lovely sunset and a murky start to the next day, 1 January. As I was descending, a short distance below the summit I met a lady running up, very lightly equipped. She summitted and caught up to me just before I reached the road. At the time I thought that she was enjoying the mountain as much as me, in her own way, and that it was not bushwalking. While I was a little concerned about her lack of gear I thought that on a well travelled track someone would soon find her body.

Lophophaps wrote:A few years ago I camped on the summit of Mt Bogong, Victoria's highest peak. It was a little windy but very managable, with a lovely sunset and a murky start to the next day, 1 January. As I was descending, a short distance below the summit I met a lady running up, very lightly equipped. She summitted and caught up to me just before I reached the road. At the time I thought that she was enjoying the mountain as much as me, in her own way, and that it was not bushwalking. While I was a little concerned about her lack of gear I thought that on a well travelled track someone would soon find her body.

Dunno about that - to each their own. There's no reason why someone lightly equipped couldn't run down the mountain if their weather turned gruesome. if they slipped and broke their leg they would likely die, but the same thing could be said about rockclimbers, fast alpine climbers, cyclists... It's all a risk management strategy.

i've come across people running in the mountains in NZ and Australia a few times and i admire their endurance, even if I would prefer to walk it, I'm not convinced that they aren't getting a similar enjoyment to the outdoors that i do - with the added fun of testing their endurance.

i agree with Hallu and Wayno, though - 'fast' tramping/hiking/bushwalking makes no sense to me - sort of like 'yogacise'. My opinion is do one or the other: run foor the sheer pleasure of testing your endurance and skill or dawdle and refelct on nature. But 'fast hiking'? makes no sense.

This is an age old debate. The only thing new is that some companies have given it a name.

Hallu wrote:
My thought on it is that's it's been basically made up by gear brands and that it has no base in reality.

I agree, but some of their gear is very light and very good quality and is suitable for most of the walks that i choose to do. Whats more, i like the option to take light, safe, compact gear on daywalks or overnighters that has a high survival, low durability, low weight factor for the occasional, unpredictable but possible severe conditions that you may encounter.

i'd prefer to take lightweight gear for the 10 short duration trips where I might need them and keep my heavy, ultradurable, ultradependable gear for the times when I will encounter adverse conditions or when I'm out long enough that durability is a massive factor.(which is not very often I might add).

there's a place for this stuff even if 'fasthiking' is an absurd notion.

I had some Salomon Fastpacker boots a couple of years ago. Really good boots, and light!

Fast hiking isn't my thing, but if it gets some people out of their daily life and into the outdoors then I'm all for it.

Well, I like competing in events like The North Face 100 and trying to walk them as fast as possible, and I train for this by doing long, fast walks, so I guess I could be called a "fasthiker"....... but yes, it sounds like marketing BS ......

Nothing wrong with it, just another outdoor activity....a slower version of trail running I suppose.

Yep, market segmentation. Seriously, it's all just a part of bushwalking/hiking. With a 6-8kg pack, few wants to do any significant running but can certainly walk a bit faster. As for gears, not as if those lightweight, UL gears can't be used by slower walkers.

Fast hiking is an oxymoron
The word "Hike" means to most of us oldies "To walk fast to arrive as quickly as possible" totally different to bushwalking; but there have always been those who simply love to cover distance quickly and it is a recognised sport category EG the Karrimor Marathon but taking no minimum kit is simply stupid; gear these days is so light and functional there isn't any real reason not to carry the 10 Essentials and a little bit more

I don't know about anyone else,but,when i am panting & struggling to walk up an incline(any incline) & someone zooms past at 100 plus ,I think "*&%$#! showoff".....I then realise I am just showing the green eye as far as my former ability........when it's all set & done,if you want to walk up backwards,or on your knees/hands,so what? it's your hike/walk,just do it

I do a mix of trail running and walking. The ultra light / fast packing thing is definitely a marketing tool. However, as a runner I know all about the marketing targeted at trail runners. The main benefit though is that there is definitely some ultra cool gear that has been developed that works equally well for walking and running. WIN / WIN. What I use now is so much better and lighter than what I used years ago. I am happy to go wandering slowly and camping, as well as a leisurely day stroll. If I have a race approaching, I ofet scout out the course with some easy wanderings. However, I am also happy to lace up the runners and run about the Blue Mountains for a day, or set out on a long fast walk, made possible by some of the amazing light gear. However, I do get a bit worried by some I know heading out without enough warm protective gear, food, basic first aid, maps, space blanket...etc in part to do with inexperience, but also to "save weight" - a big mistake when getting about in the bush. I know many have come into trail running without a real appreciation of what can happen out on even the best trails (especially when you get lost, don't know where you are, howto get back, and night is falling...)

Two words- Adventure racing?

It happens It's quite a thing at the moment. Mandatory equipment must be carried at all times. You have a base & sign in, and if you are very late, people will look for you. Safer than you think, but you still get the raw nature experience as well as the aerobic high.

Sounds like adventure racing has a new name. Kind of like Hiking, bush walking, tramping.... are all kind of the same thing. Walking pace.

There is a massive movement from gym fit to outdoor fit at the moment. That is a good thing. Only thing funny about it is my gym decided to put fake grass into the stretching area.

Robertoman. As someone who is just getting her first pair of trail shoes and hydration vest I am thirsty for knowledge about trail running!! I can't seem to get enough info. Feel free to tell me what you do pack

Whilst wandering around on Roland for a few days, I passed a young couple who were doing the whole range - from Olivers Rd to Kings Rd - in a day, wearing running shorts, short-sleeved tops and running shoes, and carrying just water. No jackets, no emergency gear, no snack food, no cameras, no nothing. On a cool breezy day.
OK, there was a time I could have done that, but what is the point? Bragging rights?
Meh, I'm getting old. But seriously, it only takes one little thing to go wrong, and you're in all sorts of strife. I'd rather slow down and feel the scoparia.

north-north-west wrote:Whilst wandering around on Roland for a few days, I passed a young couple who were doing the whole range - from Olivers Rd to Kings Rd - in a day, wearing running shorts, short-sleeved tops and running shoes, and carrying just water. No jackets, no emergency gear, no snack food, no cameras, no nothing. On a cool breezy day.
OK, there was a time I could have done that, but what is the point? Bragging rights?
Meh, I'm getting old. But seriously, it only takes one little thing to go wrong, and you're in all sorts of strife. I'd rather slow down and feel the scoparia.

I've done that traverse as a day trip. It's not that long, and I wasn't flying along at my usual pace. I like to move quick, but I would never do it at the compromise of safety. Anyone who heads out without emergency gear is asking for trouble. No raincoat, first aid, food, and the like is just plain foolish.

north-north-west wrote:Whilst wandering around on Roland for a few days, I passed a young couple who were doing the whole range - from Olivers Rd to Kings Rd - in a day, wearing running shorts, short-sleeved tops and running shoes, and carrying just water. No jackets, no emergency gear, no snack food, no cameras, no nothing. On a cool breezy day.
OK, there was a time I could have done that, but what is the point? Bragging rights?
Meh, I'm getting old. But seriously, it only takes one little thing to go wrong, and you're in all sorts of strife. I'd rather slow down and feel the scoparia.

Hi, I believe that couple you passed was my friend and I - although I may be mistaken. If I am mistaken I still think this post serves a purpose in this thread. We did the Triple Top Run (this is actually a recognised running race: http://www.kentishlions.org.au/ ) on the 18th of Sept. I assume you were the solo lady we went by just before the summit of Roland. We had indeed run from Oliver's Rd through to King's rd in a number of hours.

For the record I would like to point out what equipment we were carrying (I have listed my kit here, and my friend was carrying virtually the same - it is essentially the mandatory gear from races like TNF 100 or Tarawera 100).

I have attached two photos, one of the exact kit I had on this run fully packed and one with it fully unpacked.

All within my running pack (and shown in the photo) I had 2.5L of liquid mostly electrolyte mix (1.5L bladder and 2x 500mL soft flasks on the chest - complete overkill for this run), Macpac thermal top and pants (top left), a TNF Flight Series fully seam sealed hooded rain coat (the little fluro green thing in top left of photo), TNF flight series fully seam sealed rain pants (the little black thing in top left), Macpac merino pullover (top center), merino beanie, lightweight gloves, PLB device, Silva compass, AyUp head lights, Petzl back up LED head light, space blanket, conforming bandage, heavy crepe bandage, triangular bandage, diclofenac and paracetamol, a small rubbish bag, whistle, map and photocopy of guide book and food (gels and chomps shown, plus a sandwich and choc/whatever we want).

Of course we carry our phones which we use to take photos as we go and which we did on multiple occasions (two on Roland summit from this run attached).

I would say the weather was quite warm - but we were running so it maybe just seemed that way, however we were standing around on the summit of Roland for a good 15 minutes in just our shorts and short-sleeved tops!

By trail running standards this run is very tame; perhaps our minds are completely warped and we fail to understand the danger we place ourselves in, however I do not believe this to be the case. I completely understand your sentiments regarding slowing down and feeling the scoparia, however we both enjoy trail running and also bushwalking (along with a whole range of other outdoor pursuits) - so we do them all frequently.

I completely accept that trying to move fast is a risk. So we practice risk management. For example yesterday an adventure racing mate and and I run the Mt. Anne circuit in a number of hours. As this circuit is more remote and dangerous we carried a Macpac equinox down jacket and Outdoor Research alpine bivi bag between us so that if someone went down hard the other could walk out for assistance, saving the PLB and the tax-payer. Just so happened that two other blokes were also doing the Mt. Anne circuit run yesterday... what are the chances!

Thanks for that reply. Of course not everyone has put as much thought and preparation into it, whether going fast or slow. It's funny, you carry more first aid and emergency gear than I often do on a 10 day "slow" trip.

Just out of curiosity, how long do people who run the Anne Circuit typically take. And how much of it do you actually run?

you've got ultralight shells now that are 7 denier nylon, i've got a windbreaker made of it. it literally feels as thin as a shopping bag and about as fragile, although it's proven to be stronger than that. tents are being made out of 10 denier nylon, theres some potentially flimsy materials being used in utralight gear and its often more expensive than heavier gear.

awesome set up creeping moses !! I have a Salomon pack/ vest and they are the bomb. I think you touched on something important that a lot of my friends (non running) don't always appreciate is that events usually have a mandatory gear list, and that we after a few events we usually tweak some first aid in their as well. Working within the parameters of these mandatory gear lists has changed a lot about what I carry on a day walk. I do hear a lot of complaints about "why do we have to carry so much" without an appreciation of what can go wrong very quickly. Hilarious that "so much" usually weighs in at about 1kg, with most of the rest of the weight we carry simply being liquid - for an overnight camping trip that 1kg doesn't seem so bad. and those big heavy AYUPS you have. I just borrowed a friends set and they were a weight with a spare battery as well (I had to carry them for 15 hours or so which didn't help). But they are brighter than the sun !!

And anything that gets us out and about in the great outdoors - walking, tramping, hiking, overnighting, adventure racing, trail running...etc is not a bad thing

I'd just like to know how you did that route without getting any mud on your shoes. Not that I would ever accuse anyone of bog-dodging . . .

north-north-west wrote:I'd just like to know how you did that route without getting any mud on your shoes. Not that I would ever accuse anyone of bog-dodging . . .

Much faster to just go straight through. Photo is my friends shoes after the Roland run, soaked in mud and water but the mud doesn't stick due to brushing off/falling off. When using running shoes you do have to be mindful to be drying them off quite fast after the day otherwise they deteriorate quickly, even with these synthetic fibres.

Orion wrote:...Just out of curiosity, how long do people who run the Anne Circuit typically take. And how much of it do you actually run?

Anne is a rough *&%$#! so it's mostly just a fast scramble. I was actually going to post about the terrible state of the track down in the Anne River valley (very overgrown - I have walked it 3 times in last 3 years and it has been getting consistently worst every time and on Sunday felt like we were offtrack in sections). These overgrown tracks make for slow progress and a tiring effort. Obviously fastest part if the run along the road between the end of the track and the trail head (8km) then you climb for next 4-5km straight up Mt. Eliza. This section is actually fast as you're still very fresh and it's a nice track (much faster up this climb than across Mt. Lot). Once through Shelf Camp pace is slow all the way through to Lake Picone. From Lake Picone across the back of Mt. Sarah-Jane is better as its open track but then it's super slow again once on the grim descent to the Anne River and along to the car - this section would be much faster if the track was in good repair.

Took us 6 hours for the full 30km (its 5h20m for the actual 22km trail and 40min for the road section).

robertoman wrote:those big heavy AYUPS you have. I just borrowed a friends set and they were a weight with a spare battery as well (I had to carry them for 15 hours or so which didn't help). But they are brighter than the sun !!

I never thought they were that heavy! Such a quality piece. TNF100 require a spare battery as mandatory, but happy to carry it when the race actually requires most participants to use them - this year I thought I was going to finish without needing to but didn't quite make it.

a lot of running shoes use polyester, I find it is far more prone to rotting than nylon, plus its thinner than hiking boot material. I think polyester absorbs more water than nylon, making drying it out hard as well.

5:20 for the circuit, excluding the road. That's at the low end of what I was going to guess.
What's the record?

It's inspiring to me. And it sounds like a lot of fun.


The Anne valley was the scene of my deepest mud plunge to date.

Orion wrote:5:20 for the circuit, excluding the road. That's at the low end of what I was going to guess.
What's the record?
It's inspiring to me. And it sounds like a lot of fun.
The Anne valley was the scene of my deepest mud plunge to date.

Not sure on the record, but there are other locals around who would do it considerably faster mostly because they would be able to absolutely sped up Mt Eliza as they are super fit.

RE mud, I went in up to the waist on Sunday. Fortunately was just near one of the little creeks you cross near the track to Lake Judd, so I could just wash off as we went. Anne Valley is the new Sodden Lodden now the Frenchmans track has been diverted

creeping_moses wrote:RE mud, I went in up to the waist on Sunday. Fortunately was just near one of the little creeks you cross near the track to Lake Judd, so I could just wash off as we went. Anne Valley is the new Sodden Lodden now the Frenchmans track has been diverted

That sounds like where I went in too. Also waist deep.
I didn't mind. When we did Frenchman's Cap it was an unusually dry year and I felt cheated.

Thank you so much for showing me your pack! I looked at the solomon packs, but went with the Ultimate direction Jenny. I also have a pair of solomon shoes on their way. I think gortex is a brilliant material for trail shoes, and my daughters shoes have been brilliant at keeping her feet dry. They should arrive any day & I am excited. My first trail run for a longer distance was the Walhalla wound up 10km. It was BRILLIANT! Yes, even with that 2.5km hill! I'm a bit hooked. Anyway..... now I am looking at doing the 21km event here - http://adventurefestival.com/trail-running-2/

I've got to say. I'm a little scared. Obviously I didn't need anything for the 10km at Walhalla. There were water stations along the way, I wasn't running alone, and it's only 10km.

I do train. I do run. I do cross train. I'm still fairly new at this, but not old hat. But I still have a whisper of doubt. I have never had to have mandatory gear on me before, because we run in town, or around town, or from town to town, rail trail, pine plantation trails.... but mostly always in groups.

The one thing I think you are missing is TOILET PAPER. I can't not pack it! It's kind of important. When training for my first 1/2M one of the women I run with had terrible tummy trouble. Loo stops are a must. Running does weird things to your body.

If anyone wants to have a little INSPIRATION... check out Brian Glover (old man in orange) on Facebook. He is AMAZING!

Alittleruff wrote:I think gortex is a brilliant material for trail shoes, and my daughters shoes have been brilliant at keeping her feet dry.

If running on tracks like those around Roland or Mt Anne, the only way to actually maintain dry feet is to wear proper hiking boots with gaiters (+/- waterproof pants with a snow cuff). I've used numerous types of running shoes with Gortex and they won't keep you dry unfortunately!

Alittleruff wrote:The one thing I think you are missing is TOILET PAPER

Yep, it's a must if you tend to need it. Of course, you must also take a light trowel (can get super light hard plastic ones) and it is preferable to have a ziplock bag specifically for used toilet paper and take that out with you also. Once you know your body and eating habits you can go for longer without needing to go to the toilet.

Alittleruff wrote:I'm a little scared

You'll be fine - the race looks to be on well defined trails without any huge ups or downs. In a race like this everyone tends to help each other so you shouldn't be without support. Just run hard and have fun

Orion wrote:Minor point: A misquote.

Fixed!