Roger Caffin's Sub 90g Remote Canister Winter Stoves

[Mountain Rocket]

Roger has just finished publishing an extensive set of three articles outlining his development and design process for two sub 90g remote canister stoves. Although the articles and stoves are only available to BPL subscribers I figured his stoves might 'spark' some discussion here /some people may have missed it.

The Evolution of a Winter Stove - Part 1
The Evolution of a Winter Stove - Part 2
The Evolution of a Winter Stove - Part 3

Current price is $125 for post-production models but as I said - only available to BPL subscribers.
I put in my order.

One has the head from the FMS 116T, the other (the one that will be in production) has the FMS 300T burner head.
The rest of the stove (legs,jet,heat exchanger,needle valve,heat shunt) is a custom Roger Caffin job.
I liked the weight and stored size as well as the way they are built enough to order one.
As a bonus it can use the standard Lindal valve as well as the Campingaz and the soon to be forgotten Powermax.

[ULWalkingPhil]

If it had the simmer control on the gas bottle attachment and not on the stove its self, i would have ordered one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Tony]

If it had the simmer control on the gas bottle attachment and not on the stove its self, i would have ordered one.

Hi Phil,

Why do you think Roger's stove needs a controlling valve on the canister.

Tony

[Pongo]

If it had the simmer control on the gas bottle attachment and not on the stove its self, i would have ordered one.

Hi Phil,

Why do you think Roger's stove needs a controlling valve on the canister.

Tony

I can't speak for Phil, but I know myself and cooking in the dark, tired from a days hiking, I would be far more likely to knock a pot off trying to adjust the flame where it is.

I'm eventually going to get a lighter stove, and if I could get something like this with the gas control over the bottle I would be much more inclined to get one of these.

[icefest]

Roger has just finished publishing an extensive set of three articles outlining his development and design process for two sub 90g remote canister stoves. Although the articles and stoves are only available to BPL subscribers I figured his stoves might 'spark' some discussion here /some people may have missed it.

Looks incredible. I might have to get something similar for snow camping. Metho doesn't work too well in the cold and my Whisperlight is quite heavy.

[ULWalkingPhil]

If it had the simmer control on the gas bottle attachment and not on the stove its self, i would have ordered one.

Hi Phil,

Why do you think Roger's stove needs a controlling valve on the canister.

Tony

The sole use I would want to use the stove for is for my Bemco Backpacking Oven. Anything with a adjustment on the stove is not suitable for the Oven. The simmer adjustment has to be located on the adapter that screws onto the bottle.

[Tony]

I can't speak for Phil, but I know myself and cooking in the dark, tired from a days hiking, I would be far more likely to knock a pot off trying to adjust the flame where it is.

I'm eventually going to get a lighter stove, and if I could get something like this with the gas control over the bottle I would be much more inclined to get one of these.

Interesting, my (myog) winter stove has a controlling valve at both the burner and canister, all I ever do with the one at the canister is turn the gas on and off, I do all of the controlling at the burner and I have never had a problem with knocking the pot off or burning my hand.

The reason I like the main controlling valve at the burner is that with remote canister stoves with the control valve only on the canister, they are much slower and harder to adjust and I have found this to be frustrating in the field.

Tony

[Maelgwn]

My subscription has lapsed but I am definitely interested. Is roger making these himself?

+1 on Tony's sentiments. Valve at the canister end is very slow to adjust and annoying to use.

[nq111]

I followed the articles on BPL too - very cool.

The guy must really like building things! The amount of investment in tools and work involved for this small scale production relative to the price - he would be better off waiting tables for pocket money if that was the aim.

BPL should start a vote - what should Roger spend the next 3 yrs developing?

I think the valve on the burner as he has is the superior option.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Is it only me?, I've owned gas stoves in the past with simmer controls on the stove and canister mount and never found a difference between the two. Current stove I use for my Bemco Oven is a MSR WindPro 2 Stove and it's a dream to control with very precise adjustments. I'll stick with controls on the Canister mount.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Roger, is a great bloke. Love the work that he does, Stove looks great, but for me a simmer control away from the stove is very important. If Roger had of placed the simmer control on the canister mount, I would jump for the opportunity to purchase his stove design.

[Tony]

Is it only me?, I've owned gas stoves in the past with simmer controls on the stove and canister mount and never found a difference between the two. Current stove I use for my Bemco Oven is a MSR WindPro 2 Stove and it's a dream to control with very precise adjustments. I'll stick with controls on the Canister mount.

Hi Phil,

Roger's stove has been designed to be a winter stove, it has been designed to be used in the snow in the Australian Alps. Have you ever used your WindPro at -10C or lower, things might be a bit different with the control of the WindPro at those temps as in warm temps like QLD the liquid gas evaporates to gas in the fuel line which makes control easy, in very cold temps this does not happen the liquid gas stays liquid until it is heated by the heat sink, Propane/Butane liquid expands some 400+ times to become gas, so at very cold temps if a remote canister stove only has a valve on the canister then control can be very slow.

I would not call the Bemco Oven and MSR WindPro 2 Stove a Ultra light cooking setup.

Tony

[ULWalkingPhil]

I never said it was a UL setup. I use the oven when car base camping and at home.

According to MSR the WindPro 2 is designed for cold climates. Is this not true in regards to the Windpro 2 handling the cold?

[rcaffin]

Hi All

Yes, I am making a number of 'beta-test' models of my stove for field testing. I am selling them rather than giving them away as it would be nice to try to cover some of the costs - 5 years work and I had to buy a CNC machine in the end. OK, it has also been just a trace of fun.

They are US$125 to members of Backpacking Light, or $140 here in Australia to non-members. Post&packing costs are ordinary mail within Australia: $9 Express mail: $13. I have a small number of the ones with the FMS-116T burner available now. When they are all gone the stove will have the FMS-300T burner, which is an interesting unit by itself. These are still being made on the CNC right now. If you are interested, contact me at roger@backpackinglight.com - do not rely on PMs here as I tend to miss them.

Regarding the position of the control valve:
If you run any remote canister stove with the canister upright, you can have the control valve at the canister with no trouble at all. But if you want to use the stove in the snow or below 0 C you will have problems down the line when the propane is preferentially all used up, leaving mostly butane in the canister. Butane is a liquid below 0 C and the stove will die. So this stove is meant to be used with the canister inverted, giving a liquid feed. This is good to below -20 C if the canister is at ambient. If you can keep the canister a bit warmer, the ambient can be lower still. The point is that valving the liquid flow is very tricky compared to valving the gas flow, so the control valve is at the stove in the gas flow. There IS a safety on/off valve at the canister as well.

LOTs more details about the whys and wherefores in the article at BPL.

Cheers

[Tony]

According to MSR the WindPro 2 is designed for cold climates. Is this not true in regards to the Windpro 2 handling the cold?

Hi Phil,

Yes the WindPro2 is designed for cold temps, have you ever used yours in cold temperatures like -10 or below with the canister inverted.

Tony

[ULWalkingPhil]

According to MSR the WindPro 2 is designed for cold climates. Is this not true in regards to the Windpro 2 handling the cold?

Hi Phil,

Yes the WindPro2 is designed for cold temps, have you ever used yours in cold temperatures like -10 or below with the canister inverted.

Tony

No, have not, I don't think I ever will.

[Tony]

No, have not, I don't think I ever will.

Hi Phil,

You do not know what you are missing.

Tony

[ULWalkingPhil]

No, have not, I don't think I ever will.

Hi Phil,

You do not know what you are missing.

Tony

I been down to -5 but I did not have a gas stove with me. That was cold. It's amazing to be somewhere that's colder than my fridge.

[Mountain Rocket]

Welcome back Tony (have not seen you post in ages?).

[Mountain Rocket]

Oh and Franco which model did you buy? 300T or 116T, central support or not and 0.8mm or 1mm?

[Franco]

yes, nice to see Tony back here...

I purchased the 116T and left the leg bit to Roger .
My plan is still to use the Caldera Cone but switch to this one in winter so I would have a larger pot on it.
I do have several gas stoves but nothing this light in a remote set up so at the weight and size there is no reason not to use it even for an overnighter.
The next purchase should be one of those refilling plugs to transfer fuel from one canister to the other.

[Strider]

Does anyone recall what was causing the gas flow issues with the 300T's? Hopefully nothing to do with the burner head.

[corvus]

G'day Strider,
I think I read about the sintered brass filter in some FMS Stoves being problematic,have had no problems with mine even in cold conditions.
I would contact FMS direct if I were you they have a good customer relations dept from memory.
corvus

[Mountain Rocket]

Yeah I am not sure which burner head I should try and order - the extra width (bigger pots) or better CO2 control.
Are you going to use yours just to boil water Franco or for cooking/re-heating too?

[Mountain Rocket]

I do not want to jump the gun and buy a sub-par version. :/

[Franco]

"sintered brass filter in some FMS Stoves "
That was one of the problems fixed by Roger.
I had a similar problem with another stove.

[sim1oz]

Well, I am looking forward to my new stove from Roger, which will *hopefully* arrive before our first ever snowcamping trip. Really, Roger's timing in developing these stoves (five years ) has been perfect for me.

[Franco]

I have received the Roger Caffin stove.
90g on my scale.(could be 88 to 92 g...)
Looks very well made and can hold a 2L pot.
I am about to move house so my stuff is packed up , because of that tests will have to wait.
Note that just like with my Kovea you need to make sure that the arms are correctly folded out.
One at random tends to fold in as you move it about.

[Mountain Rocket]

Do you know if they are the 'improved' new legs Franco?

[Franco]

The original version had the center support and that was fine with me.
Roger than decided to fiddle again with his legs (...) so that is the latest version.
This would be easier on uneven ground , in winter I plan to use a piece of plywood under it.
It works with about 2kg on top but realistically I don't see myself having more than 1.2-1.4 kg so no further improvement is required at this stage anyway.