Bushwalk Australia

Hi all,

I have a few old injuries, dodgy right hip, Pes Anserine Bursitis in both knees and a bad back with a herniated disc in my lower spine from 20 years ago. I'm 43 Male.

I have just started doing a little walking in local bush tracks near where I live, and walk about 6km on Sat and Sun each weekend, without aggrevating my injurys. I'm only carry a light backpack at the moment, perhaps 2.5kg of weight, including a 600ml bottle of water.

If I can continue doing these short walk's without aggrevaing my injury's for another 3 weeks, I'll start carrying a bit more weight, perhaps adding an extra 1 litre of water. Just for the weight. And if that goes well without injury, I will try increasing my walking range by a few 100m's every 3 weeks or so, depending on how I feel. Any thoughts on my un educated training would be appreciated, is there a book on hiking training i should get ?

I'd like to start doing a little overnight solo camping + short range hiking when I'm fit enought.

Due to my back problem, I'll be interested in getting very light weight gear. And only taking the bare minimum.
A light weight tent like the http://www.tarptent.com/double-rainbow.html
A light weight air bed, perhaps a thermarest.
A light sleeping bag - no clue, I've got a 25 year old one I've had since i was a teenager.

Due to my bad back, I have to be rational and only take as much food and water as I can carry without causing more injury, so it will be overnight trips at first, just to test the waters so to speak, perahps even in my local council forest (not technically permited, but I'm not a litter bug or pig) to begin with.

Eqiupment advice would be great, what do you all think of the tent I've picked out ?

Thanks for any advice and all comments are welcome.

Peace

Hi remus and welcome

Sounds like you have knocked the body around but slow strength and conditioning like you are doing is the right approach.

Tarptent make a good product and there are plenty in use. Franco is a member here and hands Oz Tarptent enquiries, so I'm sure he will be along to help with any questions.

If it's gear related type questioning then I recommend the search function. There are so many threads with information on just about everything and they make for great reading. Also trip reports a good to search as you can see what people are using under certain conditions or where you may be planning a walk.

Gets yourself strong and the rest will be easy


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Where you are located will help advice of what you need.

I have similar issues. Stretch and rest early and before you need to (do as i say not what i do;)).

Going light is as much about attitude as it is about fancy expensive gear. Depending on where you are a tent fly, cord, cheap light synthetic sleeping bag and foam pad will get you a long way in knowing what you want to purchase.

Trekking poles work, i resisted these/ poo pooed them for a long time, largely because I felt like a bavarian tourist in ledderhosen but they work well for me.,

Hi

Once you've put in three or four weeks of initial training, have a week off and give your body some time to recover.

Then, as you've indicated, work on slowly building up the weight you carry. If it goes really well and your injuries are feeling good, force yourself to slow down and give your body recovery time.

Yes, yes and yes on hiking poles. Lightweight carbon ones will give you the extra support you need and protect your back and knee injuries, while being light to carry.

Props to you for getting out on the trail. I'm sure the walks will do you a lot of good in the long run. You're easing into it at a pace that suits you, and that's definitely the best way to roll.

Regarding resources to check out and books to read --
I'd suggest browsing the following websites for up to date info on ultralight backpacking and hiking techniques:
- http://www.cleverhiker.com
- http://www.sectionhiker.com
- http://www.hikelighter.com
- http://www.backpackinglight.com
- http://www.andrewskurka.com
- http://www.sticksblog.com
- http://www.briangreen.net
- http://www.adventurealan.com
- http://www.pmags.com

Plus the super useful https://lighterpack.com or https://www.geargrams.com -- where you can input all your gear (and weigh it all, of course), and thus see where weight can be saved/upgrades made/items to get rid of or replace with multi-purpose ones etc etc. An Excel spreadsheet is also reasonable too. I think this step is really the key to getting your pack weight down initially.

Check out the following books as well:
Ultralight Backpacking Tips by Mike Clelland > http://amzn.com/0762763841
The Ultimate Hikers Gear Guide by Andrew Skurka > http://amzn.com/1426209207
The Backpacker's Handbook by Chris Townsend > http://amzn.com/007175489X
Trail Life by Ray Jardine > http://amzn.com/0963235974
(physical books may be cheaper to purchase @ https://www.bookdepository.com)

Regarding equipment, along with the above suggestions (which will point to you to endless gear), further searching on this subforum is definitely a worthwhile place to spend some time learning about different gear options and hiking techniques suitable for you. If money is no object, I'd opt for cuben material (aka Dyneema Composite Fabric) where ever you can as that is the lightest option for shelters, stuff sacks, backpacks, etc. It does come at a high expense but given your situation, I'd say it'd be worth it for sure. It has various other benefits too.

The tarptent is a good call, though lighter options are available. Probably the absolute lightest shelter manufacturer about right now is http://www.zpacks.com so I'd suggest browsing their site thoroughly (they also offer ultralight backpacks, accessories, clothing, etc and have some great gear lists to view from various long distance hikes they have undertaken).

The Thermarest XLite is a good choice regarding UL sleeping pads. I have a 3/4 length one (230 grams) and it is comfortable. Another company to check out would be Klymit, who also offer affordable and fairly lightweight pads. I have their Insulated Static V Lite (555 grams or so -- http://www.klymit.com/index.php/insulat ... -lite.html), which is insanely comfortable but does come in at more than twice the weight of my 3/4 Neoair Xlite, their non insulated version weighs less. Another way to go entirely would be hammock camping if plausible. This could prove beneficial for recovery given your past injuries - though I may be totally wrong with that statement. If this sounds of interest, check out Tasmania based Tier Gear (http://www.tiergear.com.au) - I have a custom lightweight hammock w/ integrated bugnet (373 grams) from Simon (the owner) and it's truly fantastic. No matter what, I always sleep better in my hammock than on the ground. Typically hammock camping comes in at a weight penalty, but SUL and UL weights are totally possible. Here's an example hammock gear list Alan Dixon of Backpacking Light Magazine posted on his site - http://www.adventurealan.com/practical- ... ian-trail/
If hammock camping is a potential option for you then check out the book 'The Ultimate Hang' by Derek Hansen > http://amzn.com/1466263687
See his website too: http://www.theultimatehang.com/
And check out youtube user Shug for some informative (and entertaining) videos on hammocking: https://www.youtube.com/user/shugemery

Instead of a traditional sleeping bag I would opt for a quilt instead. These come in at a significantly lighter weight and I find them way more snug and comfortable than a sleeping bag, just as warm too. Enlightened Equipment (http://www.enlightenedequipment.com/) offer very lightweight options, as do ZPacks (http://www.zpacks.com/quilts/sleepingbag.shtml - kind of a hybrid sleeping bag/quilt). Simon @ Tier Gear also makes synthetic top quilts. See this thread too if quilts take your fancy, a member here is custom making down quilts > http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21674
Quilts are best used w/ a balaclava, beanie or something of the like if you expect cold temperatures/excessive winds.

I concur with the above folk too - Hiking poles are soooooo good! Black Diamond make some nice ones available here in Aus (wildearth.com for example). I have the BD Trail Ergo Cork's and they're going strong after 1400-1500kms.
Lighter weight options are the Fizan Compact Poles (available on massdrop right now for cheap: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/fizan-compact-poles), Locus Gear CP3's (http://www.locusgear.com/items/cp3/?lang=en) or Gossamer Gear's LT4's (http://gossamergear.com/lt4-trekking-poles-all.html)

Despite all my rambling about gear I do agree with davidf - keeping your pack light doesn't have to come at drastic expenses and it is definitely as much about your approach and mindset as it is about gear. It can be done on the cheap, but then come issues of quality and durability. After considerable $$$ wasted as a truly frugal beginner, I now realise that buying quality gear once is better than investing once, twice or thrice in a similar item later down the line. I suppose it depends how committed and able you'll be in the long run - on the flip side most UL gear options typically have a great resale value whereas your budget options do not, and not to mention they also rarely generate interest if trying to sell.

A quick note about food: try aim for 502kilojules / 120 calories per 28 grams / 1 ounce. The more calorie dense the food is the better, as you can get away with bringing much less food than usual. Good nutrition can also aid recovery mid and post hike too. Another quick note about water: an electrolyte powder or tabs are useful, something like staminade is a great move as it contains magnesium (of which aids and relaxes ones muscle functions etc).

Hope this helps somewhat! Apologies if it's overwhelming or too long winded Feel free to message me anytime too if you'd like to talk further.

Hey remus (do you realise you're the only peak near Cradle that has thus far eluded me?)

A couple of thoughts.

Going lighter - absolutely. I've done it pretty successfully through a few bits of posh gear (gradually), changing dozens of cheaper little things, and changing the way I think and do some things. On the wrong side of 50, and lacking your average vertical stature, it's made a massive difference carrying 10-14 kgs instead of 18-23 kgs!

Some people with back problems go for Aarn body packs, as they don't strain the back in the same way as a normal pack does. The go-to place I know of is Backpacking Light in Melbourne (backpackinglight.com.au), where Tim is the Aussie expert in fitting the things. He does it by Skype for interstaters. BUT, I'm one of the few people who couldn't get it comfortable. I think it's a dodgy SI joint that didn't like the hip strap, no matter what adjusting we did. I knew ahead of time, from using lots of different packs, that it was the most likely issue if anything was going to be a problem.

I compromise with a large bum bag I wear at the front. On a recent 8 day trip, I had 1.5 kg in that (water, camera, scroggin, map, compass etc), and about 12.5 in my main pack. Made SUCH a difference in the Western Arthurs having such a light pack on my back. I guess it depends on where exactly your shot disc is, but it might well be worth trying this. Less weight on the back means better centre of gravity, better balance, so not only less strain on your back just walking, but even more so when negotiating rocks, creeks etc.

Some thoughts on the Aarn packs Tortoise mentioned... Whilst I don't use one, I got to handle one a couple weeks back on the trail and it sure is a nice concept and the build quality is excellent. Though they do balance the weight supremely well in all instances, they always seem to add weight to your overall load when comparing to SUL to UL Packs. Typically SUL to UL backpacks weigh somewhere between 450ish grams (frameless - i.e MLD Exodus http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/sh ... cts_id=103) to 1.2kg or so (internal frame - i.e http://www.ula-equipment.com/product_p/circuit.htm). I think the lightest full featured Aarn is somewhere in the region of 1.1kg and that's for 33L (Marathon Magic), then its 1.8kg or so for their 62L (Featherlite Freedom). Compromises as always, but the guy I met swore by his Aarn and I know many others do too. They're super popular and for good reason it would seem. Still, I sense that the least weight possible overall is the go in your situation. A bum bag as Tortoise notes, or shoulder strap pockets or even a small shoulder bag (see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5oi1VQsEdE) to balance some of the weight more evenly definitely makes a difference. I often carry 1.5L of water upfront in 2x 750ml bottles stored in their own shoulder strap pockets.

Just a quick thank you to everyone writing advice and links.
Ive some reading and learning to do.

By the way im located in the logan area south of brisbane.

Advice about trek poles and bum bags, shoulder strap pockets to even out weight is a good idea.

By my guestimate a short range over night only walk and camp could be as little as

Bag
Tent
Sleeping mat
Sleeping bag or quilt
Few liters of water
Lunch dinner and breakfast. Ready to eat without cooking.

I could pull this off in my local council forest in logan with no chance of getting lost. Just to get started.

Once I have a little confidence id like to go on an adventure... a greyhound bus somewhere near a widlerness. Maybe get a taxi a few miles out of town. Walk a km or two off the road and camp for one to two days.

I know its a modest goal. But it would be awesome still. Since my hip went in 2010 there have been days I couldn't walk at all without strong pain killers. Im doing better now and would love to do this.
Sorry to ramble on and on.

no worries about the rambling, its what forums are for. Even if all we can offer is encouragement, its worth it.

there are some good resources mentioned, and with a go-slow mentality, you should really be able to help yourself build that strength back.

Something I can start with now, is a decent pair of shoes.

What would you guys recommend for bush/track walking ?

I'd like to not spend the family savings if I can help it

remus wrote:Something I can start with now, is a decent pair of shoes.

What would you guys recommend for bush/track walking ?

I'd like to not spend the family savings if I can help it

Shoes that are comfortable and fit well. it really depends on the tracks and weather, but normal sandshoes work well for starting out on well-formed tracks

I have a cycling analogy.
Cycling performance is vastly improved by a reduction in body weight rather than a reduction in bike and gear weight.
How is your body weight?
These days it's not a popular suggestion but an enormous number of health problems can be reduced, if not cured with a good diet and moderate exercise, especially joint problems.
I'm trying to be polite but I'd hazard a guess you might be carrying a little extra bulk, most of us are.
Lean down, gradually increase the workload and buy some good gear.
Calorie restriction reduces weight far more effectively than exercise. I have to cycle for nearly two hours to burn off the energy in a meat pie. Better off eating an apple.

performance is vastly improved by a reduction in body weight rather than a reduction in bike and gear weight.

Honesty opinions are welcome, delivered with dipolmacy even more so

I'm 185cm tall, and on the very lean side. I currently weight about 78KG.

When I was 17 years old I was same height as I am now and only weighed 68 KG. But I was slightly above average endurance fitness wise, I did ok in almost every endurance sport i tried. I've never done well in any sports that required strengh above all other attributes.

By the time I was 30, I was 130kg of lard, sitting in an office stuffing myself with crap food, and no longer exercised at all.

I lost a fair bit of weight in 2012 and got my weight down to 75 KG.

Doctores said I was too light for the BMI, and to put on a few KG, so I got stuck into ice cream and crap food until I got to 78, which is where I am now.

All the docs and nutritionali'st dont want to hear about my claims that my body's natural weight is below the BMI, I guess they are covering their *&%$#!'s for insurrance and employment security.

I gave up on trying to find someone to help me with a diet to get down to at least 70kg, so have not worried about it for years.
The diet I used to loose most of the weight in 2012 was a diy starvation diet, I had to stop cause i was loosing muscle mass and getting dizzy all the time.

Any suggestions on a safe way to loose a few kg welcome.

Regarding footwear:
It's quite a personal thing but generally speaking trail runners are the norm w/ a light load. I have around 1100km's on my pair of La Sportiva Ultra Raptors. They have been absolutely awesome (super comfy + breathable) and as with most trail runners, they required little to no break-in time. Wading through streams and rivers with them on, then for them to dry in the next hour or so is pretty special (never kept track exactly but they dry quick time). By this stage, they're holey and the tread is quite worn out so it's probably time to retire them. Salomon trail runners are widely available in Aus so it could be worth looking into their line up as well. The Salomon XA Pro 3d's are very popular. The only problem I see with trail runners is longevity. Boots are definitely far superior on this front.

In terms of socks, I cant say enough good things about the Injinji toe socks. They are so epic and well worth the investment. Mine typically last 500-600km before wearing out. Their lightweight option actually outlasted their midweight option

Personally, I now hike in Xero Sandals most of the time w/ injinji toe socks. Their Amuri Z-Trek are real nice:
http://www.xeros.com.au/amuri-z-trek-for-men/
They're a barefoot style sandal though and thus offer no support whatsoever.

if that's where your body wants to be, then you should be alright, as you walk, and if your diet is balanced, you'll be where you need to be. I think highercountry was on the right track, in so far as its fairly common for guys in your age bracket to not have as good a judge of their actual condition, they think they are leaner than they really are, but you've been down that road.

As far as shoes, given knee and hip problems, its going to be whatever you are comfortable in. Traction is good too, but you probably already know what sort of shoes you are used to. anything that laces well, starting nearer to the toe is better than not, since it allows you to control the tension all the way up your foot. apart from underwear, shoes are about as personal a choice as it gets. And to be honest, a lot of outdoor shoes are sold more on marketing than any actual benefit, at least until you get into the really high end stuff. A bad fitting shoe, no matter how fancy its supposed to be, will still be miserable. I know guides who walk in volleys. I do most of my walking in nylon upper doc martens, and have a pair of non-goretex merrel moab hightops for "real" bushwalking.

I agree with jake above about getting good gear. But. You need to know what you want. A simple tent fly with cord and pegs is about 700g and cheap. A cut wheelie bin liner for a ground sheet. There are lots of very god light to tent systems at various budgets. I have borowed a rainbow a few times ans it is a very good tent but it may not be the one for you. A short walk with a fly wont kill you. Most walking i do in the blue mountains I take a 0C light synthetiic bag. I do own and use other bags for other things. My point is the best tent in the world may not be right for your needs and mid range does add up quickly in $.

Shoes, a good stifish par of runners that fit are fine. I agree withe the above comparison with shoes to undies but you can always throw the jocks in your pack, you HAVE to wear the shoes nearly al the time.

Merino underwear is gold. Worth throwing the money at. Youll wear it whenever its cold all the time.

Mats come down to choice and your sleeping style.

Mostof my suggestions come from the point of get out and have a go.

Packs, i have walked for 2 weeks with a 45L pack. You can get very good light packs of this size. Make sure it fits. Youl learn that if what you want to put in it doesnt fit you have too much. When you feel comfortable going longerand wanting a bigerpack go top shelf.

Good point re: gear David! Knowing what you want and need makes a big difference, that's for sure
Trial and error is generally how things go w/ hiking gear, especially in the beginning. My kit is constantly evolving even after literally thousands of hours of testing and research

I would imagine there'll be some folk on this forum who live fairly close to you and whom may be willing to let you toy with their gear and check it all out in person so you can get a better idea about such matters? Maybe get in touch with a local bushwalking group in your area as well if that doesn't work out - perhaps some of its members would be happy to show you some of their kit etc if you explain your circumstances.

Alternatively short overnight hikes on established trails could also mean you'll be able to scope out others gear. But that means you'd have to be equipped anyway... So if you're willing to spend now and maybe upgrade later then Davids suggestion of budget gear first is probably a good one as it means you can learn more from experience about what you need, what you dont, before you splurge the $$$$. I still have a lot of my budget kit to be honest, as it serves an ideal purpose in that I'm able to lend said gear out to new hikers who have no kit etc and/or I can use it for car camping too.

Here's an excellent written piece and gear list for hiking on a budget: http://www.pmags.com/300-gear-challenge
Though this is from the US a lot of it can still be applied here in Aus. There's some hell cheap deals on ebay too for standard camping gear.

Hi there! I think your aims are really good and I want to encourage you to get out there! In a sustainable way, of course. I'll add in my $0.02 for what it's worth into the discussion.

Regarding weight, I would look more at muscle tone and body shape than the number on the scales. The last few kilos are the most difficult to lose mostly because it involves getting fitter which usually means more muscle (more dense) replacing fat (less dense). Basically- just keep at it, consistently doing injury-friendly exercise. I have the 'opposite' problem to you. I am a short (165cm) but not small female in her early thirties, and at my most fit I weighed about 70kg and lower weights (in the past!) than this prompted people to make concerned comments about being underweight. BUT I tend to put on more muscle bulk quite readily- I am quite strong despite my smallness, which is probably the only reason my back injuries don't give me so much grief.

I also have some minor back injuries that I am aiming not to aggravate with time- including a disk that was an incidental finding and currently not clinical! This is one of the major reasons I try and keep fit, and also one of the reasons I try to keep pack weights down. I would strongly stress what others have said and find some bushwalking 'friends' and learn from their experience, to reduce some expensive trial-and-error mistakes! Often bushwalking clubs or groups will have 'introductory' sessions which can be fabulous. If you're handy with a sewing machine (like I am-- or have a friend that is!) then making some of your own gear can help keep costs down (otherwise learn-- it's not a mystical art. The most useful advice is 'measure twice cut once').

I wear comfortable shoes on well-formed tracks and reserve the boots for the real scrub-bashing, personally. Also, don't ever take a pair or shoes (or boots) on a long walk prior to giving them some use beforehand. I will second the injinji toe-socks, or armaskins if you're particularly prone to blistering. Armaskins are a sock liner that have a money-back guarantee, and some of my friends swear by them.








** I currently am overweight and could stand to lose 5kg, but that will be a hard-won battle I suspect.

Hi all,

Thanks for the excellent advice and encouragement.

I have continued to walk in the local forest each Saturday and Sunday.

I've increased my distance from 6km per day to 9km per day. I've got a sore spot under my left knee towards the inner side. First noticed it last night a few hours after the Sunday walk, today its a lot better and hardly bothering me. BUT I feel I may have increased my distance to much too soon. And I'm thinking I might do my two weekly walks a few days apart. Perhaps a Wed walk and a Sat walk.

ALSO !!!! I got to the forest fairly late on Saturday thinking I might spice the walk up a bit by doing it at night. It was amazing, I walked in twilight for the first 30 minutes up and down big safe tracks, and just as it went full dark, I went off into the bush on the skinny tracks with all the rocks, tree roots and fallen debris. I had a 10 year old kmart cheapie head lamp that was not much better than a candle, so I think I'll get a better head lamp for my next night walk. I was very much aware of the danger of tripping and breaking a bone or something, and I was very very carful with each step to not trip. It made the walk slower, but I remained uninjured. And it was a blast.

Fantastic news remus! I think longer breaks between your walks sounds like a wise move to ensure all is well and this way you definitely allow for max. recovery time.

Regarding night hiking, it's wondrous isnt it!
FYI I'd suggest opting for both a headlamp and a waist level flash light. You use the headlamp for illuminating what's ahead whilst you use the flash light to illuminate where you'll be putting your feet next. This is definitely the most efficient way to hike in the dark in my opinion I personally use a petzl e+lite headlamp and have a Maratac AAA flashlight on the way. I have also owned and used the Black Diamond Revolt which is pretty great too but have since retired it in pursuit of a lighter pack.

Hi jakeyarwood

You have read my mind !

I released almost straight away, I need a light that shines right at my feet, and a head lamp for whats ahead.
I must have looked funny if anyone had seen me, my head was constantly going up and down, up and down the whole way.
Must have looked like I was agreeing with a LONG conversation or something.

remus wrote:Hi jakeyarwood

You have read my mind !

I released almost straight away, I need a light that shines right at my feet, and a head lamp for whats ahead.
I must have looked funny if anyone had seen me, my head was constantly going up and down, up and down the whole way.
Must have looked like I was agreeing with a LONG conversation or something.

When you think about it I suppose it's a pretty logical option for night hiking.

Ahaha, I know exactly what you mean