ultimate cold weather layering system

[ninjapuppet]

I think Ive found my ultimate cold weather clothing setup for -10 to -20C

BOTTOM:
Ultralight Merino G-strings
Merino thermal pants
Macpac Softshell pants
+/- Rab 240g eVent pants
Injinji socks
Vermont Darn tough mountain socks

TOP:
Patagonia R1 Hoody (or) icebreaker 200 weight hoody
+/- thick fleece
Patagonia nano puff hoody
Some type of Neoshell jacket http://www.campsaver.com/strectch-neo-jacket-men-s
+ Eddie Bauer peak 15 down jacket (for camp).

HEADWEAR:
Buff
Possum wool beanie
+/- outdoor research gorilla balaclava

========================================================


No hardshell required if the the neo softshell is waterproof!
And if this stuff is good, I’ll replace my 2 pants with a pair of neoshell pants too.


Was wondering if anyone had recommendations for a thick but lightweight fleece top, or should I just go with one of those cheap $10 ones? My mountain guide reckons this layer is a must but I’m starting to question this idea. Do people think this layer even required? I’m half half undecided about this…

[ninjapuppet]

and I think softshells offer better grip when you're trying to self arrest down a snow slope, compared to slippery waterproof shells.
anyone have experience with this?

[Bluegum Mic]

Ninja if you like your buff (I love mine) I recently picked up a merino buff whilst in NZ. I found it great and plan to use it more often and leave my regular buff for the warmer months.

[Macca81]

Ultralight Merino G-strings

ummm???

[Birdie Claws]

Ultralight Merino G-strings

ummm???

Every gramme counts.

[tele-whippet]

and I think softshells offer better grip when you're trying to self arrest down a snow slope, compared to slippery waterproof shells.
anyone have experience with this?

Having self arrested once in a split second, do or die situation, the only thing that counts is a good ice axe , technique and speed.
Clothing has nothing to do with it. The only thing that counts is full body weight over the pick and lower legs bent up so your frontpoints don't dig in and cartwheel you to oblivion and an instant response, cos after a second on steep ice your gone.
However, I do like a nice soft shell though, I have a Mont Meteor.

[Moondog55]

"Having self arrested once in a split second, do or die situation, the only thing that counts is a good ice axe , technique and speed.
Clothing has nothing to do with it. The only thing that counts is full body weight over the pick and lower legs bent up so your frontpoints don't dig in and cartwheel you to oblivion and an instant response, cos after a second on steep ice your gone." Second that

Antigliss clothing is more for the A-ski crowd where it can help.
have you read Andy Kirkpatricks take on cold weather layering? especially the parts where he maintains that a storm parka is all but useless if you have to take it off to put more warm clothes on??
So my idea was to ( if I win Tatts and can afford to ) get a set of parkas that layer one over the other, Patagonias DAS maybe makes the perfect over-layer even if it isn't particularly warm light or robust

[Birdie Claws]

Patagonias DAS maybe makes the perfect over-layer even if it isn't particularly warm light or robust

Kirkpatrick actually recommends it as a belay jacket, seems to fit all the features he needs. It's all listed in the article.
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/vi ... lay_jacket

Regarding the storm parka, what are your thoughts of an insulated hardshell such as something like this? http://tiny.cc/yt28j.

[Moondog55]

As a secondary layer in extreme cold it may work rather well, I would not use down insulated hardshells in Australia myself.
I was toying with using multiple layers of Patagonia until I added up the cost.
Nanopuff pull-over; Micro-puff hoodie and a DAS parka over the top ( I have a Kokatat hardshell for storm protection an ECWS top or the J&H Cane toad ) the ECWS is cut to fit over the DAS parka which is interesting

[Birdie Claws]

ECWS, reminds me of the ECWCS. Moondog, your idea of parka over parka has already been implemented by the us military (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_C ... ing_System); if only we could get a civilian/lighter setup. I've seen some cheap military copies(the parkas specifically) but i've never seen anyone sell the system as a whole setup.

[Moondog55]

Yes but the military got the idea from the esquimo who are really the experts in extended cold weather clothing, I have one of those Goretex ECWCS parkas also, not too bad really and the pockets are about the best I have ever used, the yanks started with pants then went to bib and brace and changed back to pants, apparently the B&B were too warm ( personally I think it was to save money )

[Moondog55]

Old information BTW, that system has been completely redesigned.
New system starts with silk weight long-johns as layer 1

medium weight long-johns as layer 2

pile ( Polartec 200//300) jacket as layer 3

A lightweight soft-shell with an EPIC face and synthetic insulation liner as layer 4
Really very similar to the Patagonia puffball hoodie


Windproof suit as layer 5
Goretex parka as layer 6
and a complete insulated over-suit as layer 7 ( not just pant and parka but insulated over boots and mittens as well )

[hikingoz]

Those insulated suits look pretty fun.
http://www.wildthingsgear.com/wt-tactic ... -suit.html
I'd use it to watch TV with the heater off here in Canberra . Not much else I could do with it. There is a lot of surplus stuff on ebay.

I've been looking at some brittish surplus insulated 'softie' clothing. It's very cheap and obviously much hardier than down clothing. My Montbell UL parka is ok but very delicate and useless if it gets wet. I'm keen on getting a synthetic insulated jacket and maybe bottoms for belaying in Canberra and also muddy and rainy camps...All up a top and bottom should cost about $80-90 delivered

[Moondog55]

Ebay has them in the UK for about that cost delivered
I'll send the link in a PM

[slparker]

OK,
my version for when stopped during x-country skiing + out in cold snowy conditions (ie standing around at the biathlon range) is thermal (doesn't matter which type, if they're thin they all work the same), wool hoody or light polarfleece, mountain hardwear lightwieght goretex shell(i forget what it's called... everyone else on the forum hates it but it's light and breathable and just as waterproof as my 3 layer goretex) and a mountain designs gore windstopper synthetic puffy ( snow proofish) over the top. The only downside is the puffy doesn't have a hood. MD clacier pnts or thermal and shell trousers completes the ensemble...

If I'm active this works pretty well... just take off or add layers as required... when the shell wets out or I'm stopped whacking on the bonfire puffy keeps me warm...a hood would be nice tho'

[ninjapuppet]

interesting setup. Looks like it'll work well below 10C with that.

what sort of wool hoody or light polarfleece are you using?

[wayno]

mountain designs thor fleece is nice and thick., not too heavy

[Liamy77]

I find my softshell gear is still not as waterproof as my hardshell after a few hours of wet - better in frozen conditions though, but still not AS proof.....

[juju]

Have you seen Erik the Black's layering system, I think it's really cool...
http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/2157/ba ... ng-system/

[Moondog55]

I'd consider so little clothing dangerous at Hotham or Falls, but if you added a belay parka then it should be OK

[slparker]

@ninja mountain designs wool hoody but lets face it wool=wool so anything your mum knits will work the same. Either that or any 100 wt fleece.