Is your Club Size Diminishing and your Membership Ageing?

[trepur]

Hi Rupert

Glad to hear that HWC has been trying social networking and to meet the needs of younger members. You say that you have had a 25% increase in participation. Does that mean membership increased by the same amount and if so what percentage were younger than your average age?

It would be really useful for the rest of us if you were able to indicate which changes, of those you listed, were believed to be most successful if you have indeed attracted new younger members.

Membership primarily stayed the same (8% did not renew but 8% joined) but the new members coming in were primarily "active younger retirees" who have the time to participate not only in walks but also in club admin etc. There is no doubt in my mind that changing the overnight training trip to a day was the most important decision. We have also have now developed a policy for the recognition of prior learning. Facebook is important as it reduces the lead in time for leaders and is much more suitable for those who are working. Getting younger members seems still to be difficult but a continual influx of active younger retirees will mean that the club has a long term future.

People join walking clubs for many reasons but the main one would be a supply of like minded walking companions and knowledge of an area by existing members. That is why I joined the HWC. Forums such as this provide some information about walks but by far the best information will come from talking to existing members of the club. When one joins any Club you do so for what one can get out of it, but once you get to know the Club you get out of it what you put in. I found that I wanted to do walks which weren't on the programme and so I put myself forward to lead walks and have found many like minded companions in the process and with the knowledge of more experienced members I am having a lovely time exploring Tasmania

[Bush Walker]

There is no doubt in my mind that changing the overnight training trip to a day was the most important decision. We have also have now developed a policy for the recognition of prior learning. Facebook is important as it reduces the lead in time for leaders and is much more suitable for those who are working.

Thanks trepur.

The need to remove hurdles to entry has been a common theme in many posts below.This does of course make the Club a little less elitist but how do you check the skills which would only be apparent on an overnight?

I am interested in your policy of RPL.

Who vouches for the provisional members level of experience?
Do you ever admit new members without meeting them and seeing them on a walk?

From your comments about Facebook, I assume that it is possible to book for a walk without meeting face-to-face with the leader?

[doogs]

Bush_walker I don't think you have shared your experience with the subject which led you to start this discussion. Is there a problem with your walking club and what are you doing to remedy it? and which demographic do you fill?

[melinda]

Hi photohiker,

Well, when ever you are over this way come and join us for a walk!
People can go on 2 walks as a 'visitor' before they join. All newcomers are made welcome!

Hi Bush_walker,

Do the walk leaders have a list of skills to be covered or this negotiated individually with each person concentrating on their "weaknesses"?

On the 'on walk' navigation days the leader will spend time with the member discussing the terrain, getting the new member to compare the terrain in front of them with what they see on the map, ask them to plan a route from A to B , getting them to lead etc,etc, etc. Practical, hands on stuff! Not sure if there is a specific list of questions, think it is more about understanding the big picture. (So to speak!) This sort of casual day certainly allows for leaders to spend time with individuals and "... concentrate on their weaknesses". There are lots of breaks allowing time for questions and discussion.

Some of the new members are obviously experienced and don't really need any practice. (Just jumping hoops! ) The Committee does acknowledges 'prior learning' in an informal sort of way, that is why new members can do 'navigation' on a walk with an experienced leader.

(I was recently at a navigation day where one of the 'new' members had recently set the course for the BWRS Nav Shield competition held in NSW!)

I always think the navigation days are about teaching people to recognise the importance of what they may not know.

"Could you get yourself out of here if you suddenly found yourself alone??"

We don't pretend people will be great navigators after one day but we hope that people will learn the importance of making the effort to practice it on every walk. We encourage members to get the maps for each walk, although this is not compulsory.

Have your thought about setting up some online courses and utilising those that are already available form St John ?

I'm not sure if the Committee has given any thought to online training. Remember we are a club run by volunteers!
But thinking about about online navigation training, have a look at this excellent resource set up by Ashley Burke of the Sydney University Bush Walkers.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~aburke/navigation.html

Are you using outside organisations to provide the training or is it all in-house?
Is the cost of these courses subsidised or are those training expected to pay?

Leaders are encouraged to do a Remote Area first aid courses and the club will subsidise a certain number of leaders (??per year/I forget!) a certain percentage of the cost. We have used the BWRS course and another company that I forget the name of. (Sorry!)

http://www.bwrs.org.au/?q=first-aid-training

Do you designate any of the walks specifically for < 40s?

We have a very informal group within the club called the "Tiggers" (Young tiger walkers!) The Tiggers do run their own walks sometimes, they also run their own informal social nights. All members are welcome on these walks but they are aimed at the younger members, gives them a chance to get to know each other.

http://www.sbw.org.au/content_common/pg-sbw-tiggers.seo

Is there a checklist where potential leaders have to do a certain number of courses or cover particular skills and if so how does mentoring fit in?
Is it rated as equivalent to doing a course?

The new canyon leaders certainly have to prove competency in particular skills. A flexible 'Pathway' had been set up and requirements included a 2 day workshop, co-leading, running your own trip with an existing leader and then being endorsed by committee. (Depending on experience, people can enter at various levels, hence flexible)

New walks leaders are encouraged by everyone (Committee and members alike) and mentoring is available for any body who wants this. There have been a number of 2 day workshops run recently for new leaders. Usually a new leader would ask a leader who they are friends with to come along and help out until they feel confident to lead on their own!

Do you target ( tap on the shoulder) under represented groups ( <40, women? ) in your Club, inviting them to attend leadership courses?

We encourage anybody and everybody to lead walks. We recognise that we have to provide easy, relaxing walks for some people, hard 'tiger' walks for others and everything in between. Not too long ago one of our leaders ran a "Fabulous Female Festival of Fitness" series of walks (think I've got the name right) that was extremely successful. This series of walks motivated a number of women to go on and start leading their own walks.(And yes, males were welcome!)

(I guess we do, in an informal sort of a way, encourage under represented groups with at tap on the shoulder! We do have a system where we ask leaders to recommend any one who they think may have the skill or desire to lead walks, and they are approached and asked it they would like to lead. Every one is aware that we want to encourage more female and young leaders! Just not sure how young and/or female leaders are under represented in our club! We have lots of both!)

We do try to offer a wide range of variety or walks. For example, a number of kids walks have been held recently for members and their children, infact the kids did an overnighter down to the Blue Gum forest not too long ago. ( Some kids as young as 8 years old / 600 m down and up carrying their own packs! The leader who put the kids walks on recently won an in-club award for offering the most innovative walks. He also ran a overnight trip into the RNP on 'Clean Up Austalia Day' and had the kids and parents cleaning up Marley Beach!)

And as for the younger members; well, they are already out there leading!

Obviously one of the things that helps our club a lot is the fact that we have a large target audience to draw from!

[under10kg]

I suspect the under10kg was more put out by the screening process than the 4 hour drive, but I could easily be wrong.

No, just a 4 hour drive. I think I would pass any screening process although some might question my light gear and wearing runners in the western arthurs.
I have a lot of experice to offer any club and I am a potential leader. I also are up on the latest lightweight gear so I feel I have a lot to offer any club.I went on a day walk with the gold coast bushwalkers and the women in particlular were very interested in my new parka! They reallyl likes the color!

My idea of a kilt really resonated with the leader who was sick of sweating in overpants.

The Brisbane bushwalking inflexible joining criteria just lost a great member! I did a walk with this club severya years ago and I did not need to attend a meeting>

[Bush Walker]

I suspect the under10kg was more put out by the screening process than the 4 hour drive, but I could easily be wrong.

No, just a 4 hour drive.

Sorry under10kg. I did not mean to imply that you were afraid of not passing the "screening" tests, more that you possibly found it "insulting" to have to go through the process..

I have only been a Club member for a few years myself and felt quite "put out" initially when I had to do three qualifying walks, having earlier in that year led a walk to the Western Arthurs in Tasmania. I soon got over that and found the qualifying walks and Club meetings an excellent opportunity to meet Club members, do some networking and plan the next "big" walk. Fortunately I was able to get RPL for my leadership experience!

[Bush Walker]

Bush_walker I don't think you have shared your experience with the subject which led you to start this discussion. Is there a problem with your walking club and what are you doing to remedy it? and which demographic do you fill?

Quite appropriate that the questioner gets questioned!

My experience is much broader than bushwalking clubs and comes from the time a few years ago when part of my job description included visiting community groups to promote the use of the internet and teach the necessary skills. I noticed that most of the organisations I visited had an age of 55+ and most complained about falling numbers attending meetings and the difficulty of getting fresh blood into their organisations. I started looking around for solutions to the problem and have discussed some of these in my blog and in this forum.

I belong to two bushwalking clubs and have tried to introduce social networking and web 2.0 tools ( wikis, blogs etc) to boost participation, collaboration, attract younger members and spread the workload with little success. In the process I have learnt a lot about change management, intergenerational change and governance. My admiration and interest in SBW success story follows from these experiences.

My photo is on the web. I'll let you guess my age and where I fit the profile.

Last edited by Bush Walker on Sat 24 Dec, 2011 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

[under10kg]

Sorry under10kg. I did not mean to imply that you were afraid of not passing the "screening" tests, more that you possibly found it "insulting" to have to go through the process..

I have only been a Club member for a few years myself and felt quite "put out" initially when I had to do three qualifying walks, having earlier in that year led a walk to the Western Arthurs in Tasmania. I soon got over that and found the qualifying walks and Club meetings an excellent opportunity to meet Club members, do some networking and plan the next "big" walk. Fortunately I was able to get RPL for my leadership experience!

I do not mind a few qualifiing walks even though I too have lead a party in the Western Arthurs

[Lotsafreshair]

(....hope to offer to organise some WA trips - Cape to Cape, Bib Track, other? - for SBW

Go for it JB. I'd love to do some WA walking. How about planning a Spring 2012 Cape to Cape and Bib?

[Bush Walker]

Thanks Melinda for finding the time to give such a detailed answer and giving us to so many inspiring and motivating ideas.

I always think the navigation days are about teaching people to recognise the importance of what they may not know. We don't pretend people will be great navigators after one day but we hope that people will learn the importance of making the effort to practice it on every walk. We encourage members to get the maps for each walk, although this is not compulsory.

Its difficult to get people who are not leading to follow the route on their map, but as you have said constant practice is essential.

But thinking about about online navigation training, have a look at this excellent resource set up by Ashley Burke of the Sydney University Bush Walkers. http://members.ozemail.com.au/~aburke/navigation.html

This is certainly an excellent online navigation course.

Leaders are encouraged to do a Remote Area first aid courses and the club will subsidise a certain number of leaders (??per year/I forget!) a certain percentage of the cost. We have used the BWRS course and another company ....

http://www.bwrs.org.au/?q=first-aid-training

It seems reasonable that members subsidise the cost of those doing leadership/first aid courses, but of course only when they have a record of leading club trips.

Do you designate any of the walks specifically for < 40s?

We have a very informal group within the club called the "Tiggers" (Young tiger walkers!) The Tiggers do run their own walks sometimes, they also run their own informal social nights. All members are welcome on these walks but they are aimed at the younger members, gives them a chance to get to know each other. http://www.sbw.org.au/content_common/pg-sbw-tiggers.seo

I think a group where younger members can feel at home with each other is pretty important if they are to be retained as long term members. This is a great example and a model to be followed by other clubs.

New walks leaders are encouraged by everyone (Committee and members alike) and mentoring is available for any body who wants this. There have been a number of 2 day workshops run recently for new leaders. Usually a new leader would ask a leader who they are friends with to come along and help out until they feel confident to lead on their own!

The importance of mentoring can't be overstated.

Do you target ( tap on the shoulder) under represented groups ( <40, women? ) in your Club, inviting them to attend leadership courses?

We encourage anybody and everybody to lead walks. We recognise that we have to provide easy, relaxing walks for some people, hard 'tiger' walks for others and everything in between. Not too long ago one of our leaders ran a "Fabulous Female Festival of Fitness" series of walks (think I've got the name right) that was extremely successful. This series of walks motivated a number of women to go on and start leading their own walks.(And yes, males were welcome!)

(I guess we do, in an informal sort of a way, encourage under represented groups with at tap on the shoulder! We do have a system where we ask leaders to recommend any one who they think may have the skill or desire to lead walks, and they are approached and asked it they would like to lead. Every one is aware that we want to encourage more female and young leaders! Just not sure how young and/or female leaders are under represented in our club! We have lots of both!)

Some great ideas!

We do try to offer a wide range of variety or walks. For example, a number of kids walks have been held recently for members and their children, infact the kids did an overnighter down to the Blue Gum forest not too long ago. ( Some kids as young as 8 years old / 600 m down and up carrying their own packs! The leader who put the kids walks on recently won an in-club award for offering the most innovative walks. He also ran a overnight trip into the RNP on 'Clean Up Austalia Day' and had the kids and parents cleaning up Marley Beach!)

And as for the younger members; well, they are already out there leading!

Starting from the bottom and working up is always a great idea!

[Lotsafreshair]

Not too long ago one of our leaders ran a "Fabulous Female Festival of Fitness" series of walks (think I've got the name right) that was extremely successful. This series of walks motivated a number of women to go on and start leading their own walks.(And yes, males were welcome!)

Heh, heh... um... that was me. It was the "Fabulous Females Fall Festival of Fitness" series. It was a series of 5 x 1 day walks through the Autumn program that gradually built up. They included things like Mt Solitary Traverse, Bundeena to Otford, Mt Victoria to Govetts Leap (via Perry's Lookdown), etc.

It allowed women to challenge themselves to harder walks (that are usually full with men), without feeling like they were holding everyone up, or having someone say, "Well, I made it to the top of Perry's in 38mins. We've been waiting for you for 20." We supported each other, cheered for each other and some of those initial women have gone on to do some incredible marathon feats around the world, whilst remaining committed members of the SBW.

People responded really positively to the series.

Interestingly though, (and hugely unfortunate I feel), I tried to run these walks as a joint walk with both SBW and another Sydney based club I am also a member of. Unfortunately, the other Sydney club couldn't see what I was trying to do and didn't let me run it with them. They thought I was trying to set up a separate club in a club, and it was not right to run women's only walks and deny other people attending. Apparently it caused no end of heated discussion in the Committee and on other walks (whilst many of their members were telling me they supported me on the side and thought that their committee were a bunch of old #$%@^). In fact, someone bought it up on a walk this week, 3 years after the fact. Here was me thinking that clubs NEEDED walks leaders and were especially keen for women leaders... oh well.

It's sad, but I know where my loyalties and all my hard volunteer hours go. Sorry 'other club', but you lost my heart when I was trying to add colour, enthusiasm and fresh ideas to what is also a good club.

[Jellybean]

(....hope to offer to organise some WA trips - Cape to Cape, Bib Track, other? - for SBW

Go for it JB. I'd love to do some WA walking. How about planning a Spring 2012 Cape to Cape and Bib?

Won't be able to do it in 2012, will be in Europe from mid May until mid July and again for a large chunk of August/September but 2013 is a definite possibility!

[melinda]

Hi Lots of Fresh Air,
I certainly did recognize that photo! Just forgotten the name of the plastic companions!
We need you, forget the other club! (Notice I'm being diplomatic and not mentioning names!)
And hello Jellybean,
Glad to hear life goes well in WA. Take care where ever you roam, we'll see you when the time is right. Keep us updated on any awesome light gear you find! :

[Bush Walker]

Unfortunately, the other Sydney club couldn't see what I was trying to do and didn't let me run it with them. They thought I was trying to set up a separate club in a club, and it was not right to run women's only walks and deny other people attending.

The right to being able to run an activity exclusively for a sub group of a club (Club within a Club) needs some further discussion. Many organisations, including bushwalking clubs, have women-only groups and they do that because women traditionally have been under presented in leadership roles and may even have a different focus. If you like, it is positive discrimination.

Many clubs have activity based sub groups eg photographers,canoing, rogaining, cycling etc and these are accepted as being quite exclusive, as the members of these groups have a different focus. I don't think many Clubs would welcome cyclists taking part with the rogainers, nor would they expect to take part. Nor would they want to walk with the photographers as the group would be likely to have shorter walks and move at a slower pace.

Is there any difference between having a women-only activity and say an <40 years activity or even a kids walk. Would this also be seen as a Club within a Club?

I ask these questions because I believe that initially during the regrowth period, Clubs will need to have "special interest groups" for younger people eg Tiggers, so that younger members won't feel overwhelmed by the high proportion of 55+ in their Club.

This could of course be more of a change management problem than a philosophical problem. Old habits die hard!!

[photohiker]

Hi photohiker,

Well, when ever you are over this way come and join us for a walk!
People can go on 2 walks as a 'visitor' before they join. All newcomers are made welcome!

Thanks for the invite. I don't get to Sydney much but it'd be a good excuse to stay longer next time.

[trepur]

The need to remove hurdles to entry has been a common theme in many posts below.This does of course make the Club a little less elitist but how do you check the skills which would only be apparent on an overnight?

It is and always has been the responsibility of a walker to make sure they are up to a trip. Probably 90% of walks are day walks. I lead a lot of trips and for a walker new to me I would meet them for coffee and let them know what to expect. Only once have I indicated that the walk might be too hard for them. In fact after the HWC abandoned the overnight training trip we introduced an introductory overnight trip to introduce them to the joys of overnight walking. The trip is entirely voluntary and is not a prerequisite for doing extended trips.

Peoples biggest concern is not to let the group down - no one wants to be the slowest. If one has a problem it is normally to do with pace and/or pack weight. I have been leading an overnight walk at least once a month for the last 5 years and I have never had a problem which ruined a trip. Rupert

[Bush Walker]

I have been leading an overnight walk at least once a month for the last 5 years and I have never had a problem which ruined a trip. Rupert

Very reassuring. I assume you would support the removal of the overnight walk as a prerequisite for becoming a member..

[flatfoot]

I like the idea of having a secure online database of walks that members have completed. It would certainly make it easier for trip-leaders to assess whether walkers may be up to completing particular walks, based on their walking history. I regularly attend club meetings, even though I drive 45 minutes to do so. I think only about 20% of the membership attends the club meetings, so unless you are doing a great deal of walks, there are few opportunities to meet potential walk participants and discuss the walk with them. On occasion, I try and discuss potential participants with other trip leaders. This can often not be that fruitful, if they're memory for names is as bad as mine!

I have the impression that SBW do this. Do any other clubs do this?

I was looking to do more challenging daywalks so I also recently looked into getting involved in informal walks organised using web 2.0 means, however I think there is more risk of participants having no concept of principles and practices in line with conferation guidelines/ethics. I think the main worry with informal methods is people having no concept of what gear they should be carrying and what to expect. I do think that formal qualifying processes and induction courses are important.
The trick is working out how to mix web 2.0 technques with traditional bushwalking. From the discussion here, SUBW seem to have this down pat, however I'm at the older edge of their demographic.

I think another challenge is getting an even spread of age groups in individual walks, although this is tricky in areas where walking parties generally need to be restricted to 8 or less people.

[flatfoot]

I have been leading an overnight walk at least once a month for the last 5 years and I have never had a problem which ruined a trip. Rupert

Very reassuring. I assume you would support the removal of the overnight walk as a prerequisite for becoming a member..

I think that some people, have health or perhaps other reasons for not doing overnight walks. I do think that having overnight walks as a strict qualifying condition is perhaps one thing that should be dropped by clubs that offer both day and overnight walks.

[davidmorr]

Interesting topic this. One that many clubs are contemplating.

Having just read through the whole thread, there are some common themes:

* "Clubs are getting smaller"

The poll suggests no, and few of the postings suggest anything but a slow decline. This could be as much the clubs not making enough effort to attract new members, or as some have suggested, overly-onerous membership criteria.

There is a lot of competition for people's time nowadays, and the old assumption that "people will find us" is not longer good enough. Clubs need to market themselves to all types of prospective members via a good web site, by talking to local outdoor stores so they will refer people, and by using local media. And it is not enough to just say "we are here", they have to spell out the benefits from joining: travel, social outings, fitness, skills, exploration, close friendships, etc.

* "People used to join clubs to get information; now they get it from the Internet"

I would suggest that people joined clubs for more than information. As much as anything, it was for the shared experiences with like-minded people. Sometimes just for the company.

* "Clubs need younger members, specifically 20-somethings"

As someone commented, most of the new members are empty nesters, having got rid of the kids they can now do what they want to.

Looking at my own club over its 50 year history, it started with teenagers and was largely teenagers/early 20s up until the mid 80s. Obviously this was a continuous turnover as new young people joined and earlier members left due to careers, marriage and children.

During the 80s, older singles (25-40) began to join. This was a time of great interest in the environment. Think of the fight for the North Coast Rainforests, the interest in native plant identification and bush regeneration. And what better way to experience the environment than bushwalking?

Come 1990 and we started to get empty nesters who had been involved with scouts for their own children, and now still wanted the outdoor experience. (These would be baby boomers, a group acknowledged to be very different from their predecessors in their wholistic view of the world.) New younger members at this time were people doing the Duke of Edinburgh Award, largely through one member who was a teacher supervising the scheme and saw club trips as a way for them to gain experience.

By the noughties, new members were still mostly empty nesters, although generally not from scouting backgrounds. They had just always wanted to bushwalk but family commitments had prevented it. In some cases, they were singles looking for a social outlet that had none of the innuendo and expectations of other social groups.

So what is wrong with a club renewing itself with 40-year olds instead of 20-somethings? They would certainly have more in common with the existing members.

Let us also ask if the average age is actually getting higher? Or is it just the perspective of us "older" members seeing ourselves getting older and not noticing all the 40 year olds joining?

Or for that matter, that active bushwalkers remain healthy well into their 80s and skew the average that way.

* "Young people want flexibility; they don't want programs organised months in advance"

Why is it up to the "clubs" to fit in with the needs of a particular small subset of members? Couldn't young people join the club and implement what they want? I cannot imagine a club refusing to send out an e-mail to members saying there is a new walk on next weekend. My club does it every couple of weeks and has for many years.

And as has been stated, people with responsibilities need to plan in advance. Do you abandon these people for the sake of the people who don't want to plan in advance?

* "Clubs need to adopt different methods of communication to appeal to younger members"

Can older people really run a Facebook account that would appeal to young people? Would it be better for young people to join the club and set this up in a way to appeal to people their own age?

Lotsafreshair's comments show that if young people are prepared to make the effort, there are benefits for them and for the club. It doesn't have to be left to the oldies to make it happen.

And just as a postscript, does anyone know whether Scout numbers are declining, static or increasing?

[davidmorr]

There are few members below the age of 40 in my club. I'd say the average age would be in the 50-60 range.

Interestingly, my club's average age is declining a bit as people bring along their grandchildren. However, there is a big gap between 12 and late thirties where there is hardly anyone.

[davidmorr]

Facebook seems to have some promise as a way of attracting younger members! Is it only younger members you are attracting using Facebook? Are you able to tell which is more effective? Facebook or email list.

There is a fundamental difference between the two. People can find a Facebook page accidentally or by searching. E-mail only reaches people you already know about. So if you are wanting to recruit people, Facebook is the way to go.

otoh, if you want to contact existing members, e-mail wins hands-down as it comes to them. With Facebook and any other posting-based method, people have to consciously go and look.

[flatfoot]

Facebook seems to have some promise as a way of attracting younger members! Is it only younger members you are attracting using Facebook? Are you able to tell which is more effective? Facebook or email list.

There is a fundamental difference between the two. People can find a Facebook page accidentally or by searching. E-mail only reaches people you already know about. So if you are wanting to recruit people, Facebook is the way to go.

otoh, if you want to contact existing members, e-mail wins hands-down as it comes to them. With Facebook and any other posting-based method, people have to consciously go and look.

With smartphones these days, Facebook is as good as an SMS. Any message sent would generate an instant notification. Younger generations are tuned into this, and I am frequently seeing increased adoption by older demographics. I wish some of my older bushwalking friends would start adopting this technology!

[davidmorr]

For a club to have a broad demographic they need to actively work on it all the time, not just when they realise all the members are above a certain age. Once the demographic of a club gets to the point that they 'notice' that there are younger people out there, and they are not joining the club, then the chances of getting them to join is almost nil.

There is one club in Sydney that actively chases this. There is one person who leads most walks, plans the program, and does pretty much everything. New members are only accepted if they were born 10 years either side of this person.

The justification for this is that they want compatible people, and the age restriction supposedly ensures this. Whether they have thought of what happens as they get older......

[Bush Walker]

davidmorr. Thanks for the detailed analysis of posting so far.

[davidmorr]

As an aside, I would like to be able to find ways to support and enhance clubs on this site (eg, private club forums). I think clubs would greatly benefit some some sort of online community (whether here, facebook, their own sites, or elsewhere). But it needs to be not just a web site, it needs to be online discussion, or interaction of some sort.

I'm not sure I entirely agree. Based on a number of organisations I have been in, forums seem to be used by a small subset of members and fall short of being universal. As such, e-mail is a much better method of communication.

[Bush Walker]

The trick is working out how to mix web 2.0 technques with traditional bushwalking. From the discussion here, SUBW seem to have this down pat, however I'm at the older edge of their demographic.

It would be great if someone from SBW could explain how they use web 2.0 (forums, Twitter, Facebook, wikis etc) and whether they think it has led to increase in the number of younger members.

I think another challenge is getting an even spread of age groups in individual walks, although this is tricky in areas where walking parties generally need to be restricted to 8 or less people.

I am not convinced that aiming for a spread of ages in every walk is the way to go. "Special interest groups" are common in many Clubs and in this context an under 40's or kids walk seems to be just another example of this. New members need to feel at home and this is best achieved if the walking group is closer to their age.

[davidmorr]

I agree. Meetings can be at inconvenient times, at strange distant places, have weird unwelcome vibes and be a very time inefficient way to get involved in a particular hike.

Meetings can also be at convenient times, at close and convenient locations, have warm and welcoming people, and be an opportunity to catch up with "friends" (in the old fashioned sense of people you are happy to spend lots of face-to-face time with and can rely on). They can also be a place to learn some useful skills, to discover places to go that you might never have thought of, to plan non-bushwalking activities, to meet new people, etc.

[Bush Walker]

Based on a number of organisations I have been in, forums seem to be used by a small subset of members and fall short of being universal. As such, e-mail is a much better method of communication.

I would agree about the limited number of people who use forums AND I agree that emails are a great way of communicating: you can attach files, insert links and they persist until read. Responses are possible. In many ways they are not unlike this forum.

However, they tend to be 1:1 and don't encourage discussions, like this forum, as it is difficult to see earlier emails in the thread and there is usually a larger time gap between responses, which makes following an argument more cumbersome.

[davidmorr]

Can't deny that any Club without a web presence is doing themselves a great disservice. The ability to exchange ideas is important as it not only provides opportunities to develop friendships, as people do on this forum, but also provides transparency which potential new members need before they can evaluate a club.

The web is important, but....

My club has been asking new members for a couple of years how they found out about the club. This is the result:

8 6% Camping store
39 27% Web
61 42% Friend
7 5% Newspaper
29 20% Other
144 Total

We always thought that camping stores were a good source of new members, but maybe they weren't. The low number for newspapers is not surprising, as we do not do any advertising, and don't list our events in the community noticeboard. What we have done occasionally is feature in an article in one of the free local newspapers, sometimes initiated by us but sometimes by the paper. Not sure how the "Other" people found out about us.

The web site is obviously doing a good job, but clearly our main source of new members is word of mouth. We make a big effort to be friendly and welcoming, and this is obviously benefiting us.

The other thing to draw from this is that information is valuable. We asked that question, not knowing what the result would be. Now we know that the important factors for attracting new members are the web site and the friendly atmosphere. We can now focus our efforts on those.