mt Bogong and cole cleve hut

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi
I am looking at a climbing Mt Bogong with the intention of staying at Cole cleve hut. I will ascend via the staircase spur and return via the eskdale spur. My main concern is water sources and navigation from the summit to CC hut and then back down to Mtn creek via the Eskdale spur. Please shed some light on these matters. I will be taking my Girlfiriend who is not very fit and new to overnight pack carry hiking. Is choice of destination and activity with her , a mistake and a deal breaker??
;-P

[north-north-west]

There are tanks at all the huts - Bivouac on Staircase, Mitchell's on Eskdale - and a creek close to Cleve Cole as well as the tank water there. Plus the road from the base of Eskdale back to Mountain Creek follows Mountain Creek. Nothing close to the track otherwise (unless it's been snowing).

Bogong, being Victoria's highest, is probably not the best intro for a new walker. Try something easier such as some of the Bogong High Plains tracks, or the Razorback out to Feathertop from Diamantina Hut. And make sure she has good footwear.

[Out_Walking]

I will be taking my Girlfiriend who is not very fit and new to overnight pack carry hiking. Is choice of destination and activity with her , a mistake and a deal breaker??

Don't forget, Mountain Creek camping area to the top of Mt Bogong is at least a 1300 metre climb in less than 8 kms. You might be pushing the friendship a little if that's the first walk you're taking her on

[gmac]

I also agree that a walk up Bogong would be too big as a intro to overnight walking.

As suggested by NNW there are lots of more suitable intro walks up in that area. I recently did a walk into Edmunsons Hut via Heathy Spur for an easy overnight walk. About a 6-7 km walk into a great camp site with hut, toilet, good water source and nestled away in a stand of unburnt snow gums. Options for a walk up Mt Nelse and a number fo other huts in the area.

Also the walk into Tawonga Huts from pretty valley dam about a 5km walk into a great valley again with some huts, toilet, good water and the option to do some short walks or just sit back and enjoy the area.

Was also up at Youngs Hut 2 weeks ago thats about a 9km walk in across the Bogong High Plains past Mt Jim and a mob of brumbies following the snow poles. Once again a great hut with water and a toilet etc.

Just a couple of ideas.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

yes , the soft option for unfit lassies who are new to hiking such as my g/f, is edmonson's hut. I just am in good shape these days and could tackle mt. Bogong while I am top condition.

[Kinsayder]

I don't think it's unattainable. Many years ago my first overnight mountain walk was Bogong with a fairly unfit girlfriend. It was a slog for her and I needed to carry her 20kg pack as well as mine for a part but we did it. Hikes should be hard, so it's a great introduction.

[JohnM]

Depends entirely on her personality.

I once took a GF up staircase in full sun and back down the next day in a near-whiteout and she enjoyed it. A different GF, way fitter, hated the easy amble from Rocky Valley to Ropers.

You never know if they're gonna like hauling a pack until they do it.

But yeah, Bogongs a pretty high-risk exercise. Personally I'd go for Razorback to Feathertop. Lots of visual drama, not much UP.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have just done the Razor back. I want to go somewhere different. How about Mt Loch carpark to dibbbin's hut ?
I have recently done the rocky valley to roper's via edmonson's hut too.

[JohnM]

Howitt carpark-McAlister Springs-Mt Magdala (overnight in the nice saddle near Hellfire Creek) and then return is a great walk. Not too hard (you're starting at 1500m+) and some of the best scenery you're likely to see in the high country. Maybe 10k each way.

Top of Howitt and Hell's Window at Magdala will convert anyone to the joys of bushwalking.

How is your friend re toileting in the bush? There's a toilet at McAlister Springs, but nowhere else. Some people get a bit funny about scatholes.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I have decided to go to Mt Loch . We'll set up base camp at Derrick hut and do a day walk to Dibbin's hut from Derrick hut on Sat . That means 9 kms return with a pack from Mt Loch carpark to Derrick hut and back in total .

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi
I just got back from the Dibbin's hut /Mt Loch circuit. My g/f was not up to it at all. Car camping and holiday houses are clearly here thing as long as the footpath to check in desk is made of concrete and it is flat and has no hills in the drive way then the Motel should be her speed for sure.
THat was a mistake to take her on what seemed to me to be a reasonably easy hike. It was only 1/4 of what the Bungalow spur hike is like.
To her credit she finished the trek but only b/c by total chance ,someone gave her a lift in his 4 wd up machinery spur!!!!!

[JohnM]

Good thing you didn't drag her up staircase spur. You'd be getting no nookie for six months at least.

You don't need your GF to like bushwalking. You just need her to be ok with YOU liking bushwalking, and giving you enough leave passes to regularly go without her.

It's when she doesn't like it, AND starts resenting it for taking you away from her, that you've got real problems.

So.

Best case scenario:
GF who enjoys bushwalking, but is also happy for you to go off with your mates when you want some bloke time. Marry this girl immediately.

Pretty good scenario:
GF who hates bushwalking, but is fine for you to keep doing it as long as she gets she-time doing what she loves. Seriously consider marriage.

Hellish scenario:
GF who hates bushwalking and hates you bushwalking. Don't marry this one no matter what other qualities she may possess.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Yes,my G/f who should not try pack hiking/walking again until they make the royal botanical gardens in central melbourne smaller & offer a porter service for her hand bag . As a result she did the walk( hobbled and stumbled in her case) into dibbins in 4-5 hours as the twighlight was vanishing and walked( limped ) out in 6 hours!.
She wants to like bushwalking , likes nature and is buying gear for hiking!!! :-0
etc but she is lost at sea in the bush...clueless , a babe in the woods, a helicopter rescue waiting to happen!!. She is better at fighting off drunken koories in Smith st Collingwood,inner Melbourne.

[Kinsayder]

If she's keen though it might just be a case of baby steps. Everybody starts somewhere.

[ninjapuppet]

Sounds like a good trip!
for someone who's never done any hiking in Victoria, ive got a few little questions:

what the best maps to get for this trip,
what are the car entrance fees
and visitor entrance fees. ( i cant seem to find this info on the national parks page, unless there are NO fees?)
can you camp anywhere up around mt bogong? or do you have to go to the cole cleve hut?

cheers

[JohnM]

Spatial Vision does a great map of the area.

The only fees ever payable in Vic high country are into the commercial ski resort areas during the ski season. So no worries there.

You can camp absolutely anywhere you like on or around Bogong. People tend to congregate near huts either out of habit, the convenience of having a dunny, or because they're always close to good sources of water. Can be nice to have somewhere to sit and eat in bad weather too.

But there are good sites all over the place up there. I wouldn't recommend exposed sites though. The weather can get incredibly nasty with little warning.

[ninjapuppet]

cheers john. really keen to get down there this winter.
kosciuzko has a vehicle entry fee of $27/day in winter so I'm really surprised victorian parks dont charge a fee.

[ninjapuppet]

For a mid winter ascent of bogong, would ice axes and crampons be recommended? or would snowshoes and pole be enough?

[JamesMc]

Depends on snow conditions at the time. I just take skis. If it's likely to be too icy l go somewhere else.


JamesMc

[ninjapuppet]

Just came back from mt Bogong for a mid winter ascent. What an awesomely wet weekend!

Mission Objective 1: build an igloo on top of bogong
Mission objective 2: scout out some ice climbing around the pollux outcrops

From Sydney, its 630km to the Mt Bogong's Mountain Creek campsite, 170km longer than to get to guthega in the snowy mountains. Me and some mates left sydney at the same time and funny enough, we arrived at Mountain Creek the same time they took to arrive at Guthega! this must be due to the excellent freeway to Mt Bogong cruising at 110km all the way, while getting to Guthega requires going through alot of 50 kph towns. There is some patchy mobile reception at the bogong campsite which gets better reception towards the top with optus.

The sky was clear last Thursday, but the forecast was rain. There were about 6 other cars around the campsite and I thought we were in for a busy day tomorrow with the climb. That night it bucketed down big time, and I woke up at around 3am to find a small lake had formed beneath my tent! DOH! I had arrived in the dark and had set up camp on low ground. My tent floor was like a water bed with a massive puddle under it and I was really worried after reading about how macpac and MSR tent floors were leaking. Running to the car to get something, my feet was in ankle deep water all the way to the car, so it wasnt just my campspot that was bad. The whole area was slushy! Awesome that everything inside stayed perfectly dry! I had left the all vents open and with 2 people inside it was such an awesome feeling to find absolutely no condensation on my tent walls.

By morning, weather cleared up abit and we found that we were the only party heading up to climb bogong! The rest either changed their minds, or were only there for the night to camp out. we did meet another fit looking AFL bloke turning back shortly after bivouac hut due to waist deep snow which worried us abit, but he had no poles nor snowshoes.

Long story cut short, we didnt make the summit and failed both objectives. My inexperienced mate came not prepared enough and started getting too cold even on the move so I decided to call it quits. He started having migrane, nausea, vomiting, and fatigue so I had to make a decision to turn back. Must have been that pizza in Albury. He wanted to pop the PLB which just disgusted me. I Didnt feel it was an emergency and didnt want to be ridiculed in those victorian newspapers like that recent bloke. Theres no way I was going through the trouble of replacing my PLB's battery and waiting for a rescue when the car was just a few km downhill and this guy was still walking ok.

There was a whiteout everywhere for the whole day so scouting any ice climbing would have been futile.
The igloo maker turned out alot more complex than I had imagined. Watching youtube videos of people building it didnt seem to cut it. as We tried building it up, it just turned into a cylinder that went straight up and we just coudlnt get the curve right. Gotta admit we didnt read all the instructions beforehand so that didnt help. Even the instructions said: DO NOT EXPECT TO SUCCESSFULY BUILD AN IGLOO ON YOUR FIRST ATTEMPT. For those interested, all 21 pages of its instruction can be found here: http://www.grandshelters.com/manuals/igloo-man-p2.htm

Comming down, we met 2 other blokes waiting for a taxi from Mountain creek car park to Falls creek to do a 3 day snowshoe trip to ropers hut - cleve cole hut - bogong summit - mountain creek car park. I contemplated dumping my friend at the car and joining these 2 other guys, but I would have been labled EVIL and my friend's condition started deteriorating so I just drove him to Albury hospital for a check up.

So there end's what could have been an awesome chance to test out my new Direkt 2 tent and igloo on the summit of bogong, but it didnt happen. Lucky i have another trip here in a few weeks with more experienced mates, but here are some tips for future aspiring bushwalkers:

1 - Come prepared: even super fit AFL footy players turn back without the right gear.
2 - Choose your partner's wisely. if you cant choose your partner, then at least choose a different walk if you feel your partner cant live up to the task (this mate of mine is a tafe qualified bushwalking guide so I assumed he had a level of proficiency)
3 - map is " mitta mitta" and can be bought from adventure gear in Albury, or Mt beauty info centre. A few other maps cover this area well too such as the rooftop's adventure map of the bogong region.
4 - Such a good campsite is free which is hard to believe. After being used to kosioszko's $27/day fee, Victorian parks appear to be an absolute treasure.

[ninjapuppet]

and to answer my original question,

ice axes: probally NOT required.

snowshoes: a must.

crampons: Highly recommended. If they have aggressive teeth like the MSR lightning ascents then you should be fine without crampons. However, Mine were yowies and were pretty lame, so I also brought along some kathoola microspikes which were a perfect combination. My mate had the common MSR Denali evo which were great. he also had a pair of aluminium crampons which were kinda overkill because the teeth on his snowshoes were aggressive enough.

[Kinsayder]

Thanks for the post(s), Ninja! It's a nice old climb up Bogong, sorry you didn't make summit. How are you finding the Direkt2?

[ninjapuppet]

Direkt 2 is still brand new and untested. I'm not too confident when comparing it to an iTent, but hey it's half the weight.

I like to give it the benefit of the doubt by actually using it before i make harsh comments about it. My fat 3 year old boy can sit on top of an MSR fury, but try it on the dirkt 2 and it will be damaged for sure. I always take bivies up just in case when trying out new tents in high wind.

[north-north-west]

Bad timing. A week early and you'd have aced it, with perfect conditions three or four days running. (Don't you hate it when people say 'you should have been here last week'? But in this case it's true.)

When's the next attempt at the igloo?

[andrewbish]

Hey NP
Sorry to hear about your abortive adventure!

I think it might be bad luck to be your walking partner - this guy gets very ill and I seem to recall another partner got bitten by a snake (that you had walked past)!

[whatevermortal]

We were considering heading to Bogong in the first week of September for a simple up and down, I know weather is an unpredictable beast but is it still likely to be snow and ice that time of the year?

[andrewbish]

When I was at Mt Bogong in the same week last year there was a lot of snow on the tops - snow shoes and/or skis were the go

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I climbed Mt. Kosciusko in October 2005 in waist deep snow without snows hoes or poles. It was a real slog so Mt . Bogong would be still be in the snow season in Sep/Oct and without the snow gear you'll be rogered. Yowie snowshoes are *&^%$#! weak in icy heavy going. You need the ones with the real gnarly fangs on them, the msr types..
I am looking at climbing to the summit for a day hike , of Mt Bogong in Sept. this year carrying snow shoes and poles and just a day pack with water and food . I 'd go with a friend who likes XC skiing. Is this a nutbar idea?

[whatevermortal]

Thanks everyone, I'll leave it till later in the year or till I find some new gear on the side of the road someone forgot :]

[ninjapuppet]

An impromptu trip was decided last minute to to great looking weather forcast. I hastily packed in 30 minutes and on the road half an hour later to make another visit to bogong.
We arrived at Mountain Creek campsite around midnight and were the only party there

Lazy start next morning, walked up 1000m to the snowline and set up camp when I realised I forgot to pack the ridge pole for my propel tent! DOH!!!! had to rig something up to make do.

next morning, walked the final 400m to the top in total white out conditions where you could not see the next pole. Forgot to pack the map, compass and GPS! DOH 2 !!!!! [we werent planning on any Off track walking and had sat phones]
We were relying on the poles but when you cant see the next pole, its not a crash hot situation. 4 of us got into echelon form spaced 5m apart, and walked forward. Rational: to get to the summit, just head uphill.

conditions were quite icy. The snow wasnt all that deep so snowshoes werent required however crampons would be mandatory. A friend used my katoolah microspikes which werent giving her enough confidence so I would recommend leaving the microspikes at home and go some REAL crampons. I used the ultralight camp XLC490 which are the worlds lightest 12 point strap on crampons. on the way down, we just followed our footsteps and me another couple who were on yowies so they obviously were ok. Personally, I wouldnt feel too comfy on yowies with that much icey ground and and wind blowing at me.

Checked out the ice climbing which was awesome to say the least. basically as you head up past the first snow pole, go 150m further up the ridge, and chuck a right turn down the side of the ridge where there are about 16 routes of ice and mixed climbing. Generally you rap down and the pro is really good. 50-60m rope is perfect. PM me for recommended rack required.

went back down to the first snow pole and it was 2pm so we started building our 10 foot igloo till there was no sunlight left. slept in the igloo over night and headed down the next morning to end another excellent trip.

Anyone heading up bogong, please feel free to use the igloo, but dont destroy it. We'll head back sometime this month to complete it. probally another 1.5 hours work should do it.