Cost of hiking the track

[ybi2]

Sent off a email to the Parks and Wildlife Service that control the Overland Track to see how they can charge the high amount just to hike the track. When in NZ the amount is a lot less $140NZ (considering the exchange rate) you get to hike the track, guaranteed a bed in a hut, a mattress, the use of gas stoves, lighting in the huts, a Ranger to tell you about the track ahead and weather conditions. The New Zealanders do it for a lot less and you get the stated benefits. Giving the hikers these benefits you do not have to carry a tent, mattress or cooking equipment.

I asked how they could charge the $180.00 and you are not a bed, you get no mattress, no ranger at most huts (especially ones giving a briefing on the track ahead) , no gas stoves and smelly drop toilet.
I received the normal PC answer stating "... the economic, social and political contexts are different" What?

The reply goes on to state: "In Tasmania we can argue that we also have a strong affinity to the outdoors, however our legislative and financial situation is quite different. To that end, we have been encouraged by successive Governments to adopt a management model with more emphasis on user pays/ cost recovery."

One of our major costs is helicopter hire to fly out human waste and fly gas cylinders to those huts that have gas heaters. The reply then goes on about the costs of gas cookers as well. Well the Department of Conservation in NZ also have those costs as well as others such as a ranger at each hut and the other benefits listed above.

You can add up the $180.00 each person by the number of hikers each day. Then times all that by the number of days charged each year. Gee the helicopters are expensive.

Special Note:
I am all for user pays. I do not have a issue in a fee to hike the track. The community of Tasmania should not have to bear the cost of hikers from the mainland and overseas. However, for the high cost they should at least supply you with the same as in NZ.
The government in Tasmania should also consider the tourists that come into Tasmania and spend their money at hotels before and after the track, equipment purchase and hire (for some) as well as food and transportation.

I just saw a show on TV about the rising costs charged in caravan parks in Tasmania and how that has effected the number of tourists using caravans especially the Gray Nomads (of which I will be next year). I hope that the high charge does not stop others that have not hiked the track before as it is a great hike.

Looks like I will have to take my money and spend it in NZ. I would rather spend it in Australia.

I have hiked this track both ways.

[Azza]

Okay... so why did the Milford Track cost me ~ $260NZ to hike a couple of years ago?
The fee was 90NZ per night for each hut... plus extra costs for ferries etc.

I received the normal PC answer stating "... the economic, social and political contexts are different" What?

100% true... The economy is pretty stuffed here.
Tasmania is broke we can't afford to run the state let alone pay for the up keep of the parks.. which the fee's don't completely cover.

The South Island of NZ particularly Queenstown and Wanaka - from the socio economic point of view is considered quite wealthy in relation to the rest of the country.
Lots of tourist dollars running around the south island.. yes.. similarities to Tasmania, but its not the same.

I love walking in NZ and Tassie... but I'm there to enjoy the wilderness and not worry about whether there is a flush toilet or not.
As long as I know my fees are going back into park, what's another $50 ?

[tastrax]

Whilst I understand your issues with the level of facilities there are additional costs that its fairly difficult to avoid on a track like the Milford (which I suspect you are quoting)

http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents ... 011-12.pdf

Departing from TeAnau (and walking/hitching to/from the ferry terminals at each end)

Track Fee - $153.30NZ
Boat to the start - $75.00NZ
Boat at the end - $39.00NZ

Total $267.30

267.30 NZD = 208.351 AUD

I also suspect that average weekly earnings are less in NZ and I know for sure that helicopters cost less.

[Strider]

Not to mention NZ has just gone through a full-blown recession! Australia didn't really get touched by the GFC, so it is difficult for Aussie's to appreciate the seriousness overseas.

[corvus]

I agree that it seems expensive to walk the Overland Track in Season however the population of Tasmania is just over 500 thousand whereas NZ has over 4.2 Million therefore the economy of scale is somewhat out of balance.
We Tasmanians just cannot afford to offer the same facilities as NZ and it is in my opinion that what we do offer is superior to that of NZ but I am very biased in this matter
corvus

[tastrax]

Dore Pass at the southern end of the track does look interesting - a nice alternative to the boat but not sure I would want to do it with a full pack - its about 1000 metre climb!

http://alangdean.wordpress.com/2010/05/ ... dore-pass/

[Strider]

t is in my opinion that what we do offer is superior to that of NZ but I am very biased in this matter
corvus

I am guessing you have not been to NZ? The superiority of NZ in this regard is just so far ahead of Tassie, it's not even funny.

[corvus]

G'day Strider,
Having visited many parts of this world I really think that what we have here is well and truly superior,hey we may be nearly broke but the people ,climate and lifestyle suits me as an incomer just fine and I now have no inclination to venture elsewhere
corvus

[Strider]

Ok now I admit my bias - Im a Kiwi

[corvus]

Ok now I admit my bias - Im a Kiwi

Kia Ora Cobber
corvus

[Strider]

I think you mean kiaora bro

[ybi2]

Hey Azza. Yes I have hiked the Milford as well as the Routeburn, Greenstone and Keplar Tracks. The last two were just last year. They cost me only $40.00 NZ a night. I can not see how you can say you paid $90.00 per night. Plus ferries. A bit of an exaggeration there. I still have the receipts to prove it does not cost $90.00 per night. A friend of mine just returned form the Keplar. He to just stated it cost him only $40.00 nz per night.

And it is not just another $50.00 it is now $200.00. It soon adds up when you have a family going. You may be flush with money but others are not.

As stated I fully agree with paying to keep the upkeep. However, $200.00 seem a bit high. I to love getting out in the bush. Admittedly in NSW where is it normally free to hike or if not it is only $5.00 on the Six Foot Track or the Coastal Track. Most others are free. And yes they have up keeps as well. The Parks and Wildlife Department which is responsible for most of the tracks normally do not charge.

[ollster]

Could also be that Tassie's terrain/environment is more fragile (*posing an assumption*) and therefore requires more upkeep? Either way, no one is forcing people to walk there. There are plenty of other amazing walks, perhaps if people pulled out their digits and explored them then the required degree of management of the OLT would not be so high, ergo no extra fee?

[Strider]

Or perhaps it is that NZ attracts a higher number of walkers than Tassie, hence they would be able to spread the costs more effectively.

[Penguin]

I was not going to buy into this one - but as someone who has done both tracks, as well as quite a number of NZ South Island tracks, I think ybi2 has raised a couple of good points in comparing the OT to Milford Sound.

The Milford guarantees a bed, where the OT does not. This I cannot understand. Hikers with a pass should have preference for a be at the huts. They may choose to camp out, but they still should have preference. In January/February this year I twice went into Water Fall Valley. On both occasions the hut was almost empty as most camped out by preference. But the weather was good. I did the OT 14 months ago in bad weather and the huts were overflowing. Many did not carry tents and so were dependent on the huts and there was an invading school group that were on the platforms but migrated to the huts due to the weather.

The cost per night is similar between the two as you MUST do the Milford in four days (three nights). No choice. Most people take six days to do the OT. So for most the cost per night for each track is similar.

You really must take the ferry for the Milford and it is not cheap. When I did it a few years ago, my memory is that the ferry charge is about 2/3rds of the track fee - but I will have to check. The ferry for the OT is optional.

The Milford offers no side trips. There are abundant ones on the OT - so you can walk to your skill level.

The views on the Milford are spectacular - particularly if you get a clear day on McKenzie pass. I love the OT panorama's but some find them not as awe inspiring as the Fiord-land scenery. Personal preference.

I am glad to have done both for different reasons. If Parks could sort out the allocation of Hut spaces then I feel there would be little to grumble about for the fee.

P

[Azza]

Hey Azza. Yes I have hiked the Milford as well as the Routeburn, Greenstone and Keplar Tracks. The last two were just last year. They cost me only $40.00 NZ a night. I can not see how you can say you paid $90.00 per night. Plus ferries. A bit of an exaggeration there. I still have the receipts to prove it does not cost $90.00 per night. A friend of mine just returned form the Keplar. He to just stated it cost him only $40.00 nz per night.

And it is not just another $50.00 it is now $200.00. It soon adds up when you have a family going. You may be flush with money but others are not.

As stated I fully agree with paying to keep the upkeep. However, $200.00 seem a bit high. I to love getting out in the bush. Admittedly in NSW where is it normally free to hike or if not it is only $5.00 on the Six Foot Track or the Coastal Track. Most others are free. And yes they have up keeps as well. The Parks and Wildlife Department which is responsible for most of the tracks normally do not charge.

Actually I misquoted... the price was $90 per night for two. So $45 each. Either way my point being it was $260NZ pp for the Milford. Seems to roughly correlate to cost of the overland, minus flashy mattresses, gas, and flush toilets.

There is plenty of other awesome walking in Tasmania better than the overland that doesn't cost anything more than the park pass...
We have one walk that we charge extra for? How many in NZ? Quite a few.

yea.. I understand the extra cost is expensive for a family.
But travelling is inherently expensive.. you need to consider what happen if you get caught out. Too many people travel overseas and get themselves into trouble without proper insurance or cash reserves to deal with the situation. We're lucky in Tasmania and NZ that when we have our little screw ups we get rescued for free.

[corvus]

I think you mean kiaora bro

No cobber I did mean kia ora just stuffed up my Maori by capitalizing the k and o it is a two word greeting according to all of my Dictionaries
corvus

[north-north-west]

The Milford guarantees a bed, where the OT does not. This I cannot understand. Hikers with a pass should have preference for a be at the huts. They may choose to camp out, but they still should have preference.

And how large would the OT huts have to be to do that? Or do they limit daily numbers to the 10 or 12 that is all most of the huts can accommodate comfortably?

[Strider]

I think you mean kiaora bro

No cobber I did mean kia ora just stuffed up my Maori by capitalizing the k and o it is a two word greeting according to all of my Dictionaries
corvus

I was actually talking about the "bro" rather than the kia ora

[Penguin]

The Milford guarantees a bed, where the OT does not. This I cannot understand. Hikers with a pass should have preference for a be at the huts. They may choose to camp out, but they still should have preference.

And how large would the OT huts have to be to do that? Or do they limit daily numbers to the 10 or 12 that is all most of the huts can accommodate comfortably?

Depends how cosy you want to be. Have not been past Pelion in a while, but WFV and Windermere can take 24 at a squeeze. I have been in both when they have accommodated that number. Pelion obviously a lot more. It depends on what the smallest hut would take. Is that Windermere the smallest?

P

[Nuts]

I'm all for parks getting heaps of funding. Its a shame though that we have to also bear the admin costs of user pays and permit systems. Seems like opening separate bank accounts to discipline a horde of squabbling children.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Is that Windermere the smallest?

Waterfall Valley is the smallest one, with Kia Ora not far behind. Windermere has a larger common area with more tables/chairs. Waterfall Valley needs to be bigger... but they've just left the old unheated 8 person hut standing to cover the overflow.

All three huts sleep 24, but it's quite cosy with a full compliment.

60 are allowed to walk the track per day - that's 32 public, and 28 private tour groups. So in theory, 32 walkers per day for 24 hut spots. Generally works out pretty well if there's at least 8 campers, which there normally is. Might only be a problem if people coming up from LSC or in from Arm River started filling up the smaller huts.

I think WFV needs to be bigger because quite often non OT walkers do an overnight hike to there and it gets crowded. Also, even though some are campers, most prefer to cook and eat in the huts - and that's when it gets crazy busy, particularly at WFV where there is only two small tables.

[ybi2]

Dear Azza
Well that is my whole point all along. The Milford may be the nearly the same cost but you get all of the benefits. That is as you quoted "minus flashy mattresses, gas, and flush toilets." I noticed that you forgot to state the Ranger (who has a Satelite Phone) who gives you a detailed account of the next days track with a up to date weather report , the tables and chairs enough to accommodate ALL hikers, running water in the coking huts, the lighting system (solar) and heating.

Again it costs $200.00 to do the Overland Track and your assured of nothing. The hikes in NZ (and I see you quoted the most expensive track 'The Milford' with the ferry transport) have all these benefits. That has been my point all along.

You may have a look at the others that do not have ferry charges. Ones like the Routeburn or Keplar. Yes, there is a transport cost to and from Queenstown but not nearly as much as getting to the O/T from Launceston or going to Hobart from Lake ST Clair. They work out cheaper than the Overland Track and you get the stated benefits.

Yes there are some that have a charge in NZ in the south Island as you stated. At least six that I know of all of which are cheaper than the cost of hiking the O/T including transportation. However look what you get. There are also numerous others that do not charge but you do not get the benefits just like the ones that you quoted in Tassie.

As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate.

I am sure that there can be no objections to paying the high $200.00 per person to hike the O/T if you were assured of even a bed space. But you are not!

[corvus]

I think you mean kiaora bro

No cobber I did mean kia ora just stuffed up my Maori by capitalizing the k and o it is a two word greeting according to all of my Dictionaries
corvus

I was actually talking about the "bro" rather than the kia ora

I understand bro just a bit slower on the uptake as I age
corvus

[north-north-west]

As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate.

In other words, you are doing a supported series of daywalks, rather than an extended overnight bushwalk.

[tastrax]

The Routeburn and the Kepler have a per night fee for the huts of exactly the same as the Milford (in peak season) - $51.10 per night

Consideration was given to a fixed regimented system of bed bookings for the Overland Track when the system was being developed but most/many people felt the flexibility of daily movement and side trips etc was better than being asked to rigidly move on every day.

I suspect that PWS could add rigid bookings, lights, mattresses and cookers but then we would be the same as New Zealand, which personally I think would be a retrograde step.

I love the fact that their is choice and that it differs between locations.

[matagi]

...........
As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate........

No. Just .... no.

[ollster]

As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate.

Lol, good luck if you are stuck in a snap snow storm and/or get lost. You're as good as dead. Not taking ALL essential equipment is frankly, %$#@ing ludicrous.

[frenchy_84]

As a result of the benefits you do not need to take a tent, gas cookers or a mattress. This makes your back pack lighter. Something I believe most would appreciate.

Perhaps one should bring along a sherpa so as to make the wilderness experience even more spectacular.

[forest]

Lol, good luck if you are stuck in a snap snow storm and/or get lost. You're as good as dead. Not taking ALL essential equipment is frankly, %$#@ing ludicrous.

That should be in context though.
If you expect people to lug a tent on the great walks in NZ (in peak season), when some distances between huts isn't very far, and your guaranteed/booked into a bed in a alpine hut that's a big ask.
I know some people will but it's not needed most of the time. (Some tracks yes, but most, NO)

I know people have done so, but getting lost on a great walk, with "Some" walking experience would be hard IMO. Most are groomed trails that are very well sign posted.

Walking in Oz is great but damn, those Kiwi's have some awesome area's to wander around in.
We are lucky to have so many wonderful options close at hand. Why not enjoy both "isalnds" and except them for what they are.
Both Tassie and NZ rate highly on my walking scale.