Rain jacket - what's worth having?

[ULWalkingPhil]

I might get a chance to wear my Montane Air with a day pack on. Im on walkabouts in Brisbane city at this moment. Looks like it might rain shortly.
Heres hopeing. I want to wear my nice new jacket. Since i purchased this. It will not rain. Maybe if i carry a crap jacket it will rain.

The jacket is so waterproof the clouds will not drop there cargo on me


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[Nuts]

Don't get me wrong, if something is advertised as suitable and isn't, I agree- where there is a warranty it should be honoured. Still... sweeping comments do no justice..

[PiniPowPow]

Some further info regarding my delam issue. I bought my jacket in Canada back in Feb 2011. I mainly used it ski touring and put in around 20 days in Canada, 50+ days in Oz and just recently another 10 days in Japan. I normally ski with a 5-10kg pack (avi gear, food and water). Overnighters are normally 15-20kg pack.

I generally don’t treat my gear with much respect and my jacket was no exception. I often had it stuffed into my pack or strapped to the outside and also did a fair bit of bushwhacking and rock scrambling (often with my skis on my pack adding another 5kg). It keep me dry through some horrendous Australian alpine weather. In addition, I work in KNP and used it quite regularly for work so I got a lot of wear out of it. So, even though it only lasted a year, I feel I got pretty good value out of it.

I would be pretty peeved if it had delaminated early in its life as happened to other in this thread.

Interestingly I found this review of another Westcomb event jacket http://runoutoffroute.wordpress.com/201 ... -lt-hoody/ the delam in this case was put down oils rather than wear which may have been the case with mine. So thankful to the Westcomb guys for replacing it, maybe if I’m a bit more careful with it the new one and wash it more often it may last a bit longer.

[Ent]

Still... sweeping comments do no justice..

That is why I used the word "getting" rather than "has" or worst "is bad". Hardly sweeping, maybe more duster level?

You mentioned your good experience so please share the brand and the weights. It is easy to condemn any lighter weight jacket as bad based on one comment on this thread if taken literally and without context.

The push is on for lighter or better gear but is that being unrealistic and maybe the traditional thinking was right?

Cheers

[sthughes]

That "sweeping" comment (hardly!) has got me thinking: So far I have owned 4 eVent products:
1 Leaked after a couple of days
1 was just crap and didn't breath
1 was brilliant but delaminated in <10 hrs
1 I have not yet used

Goretex only 2 garments:
1 Going very well after a lot of use (overpants)
1 going well but only about 5 days (20hrs?) wear with pack

Hardly statistically relevant, but from my small sample I am leaning away from event stuff

[wayno]

intersting how they say to wash event often on the care instructions... it would tie in with the issue about oils affecting lamination, ironically event was touted as having an advantage over gore tex because it didnt have a chemical afinity with oils and was less likely to get clogged up with body oil's than the pfte in gore tex....

[PiniPowPow]

Happy to accept for my case, I didn’t wash it at all. Doesn’t really explain the failures occurring in less than 10hrs (different manufacturer though).

[sthughes]

Yeah I wash all my stuff after every use when I get home, if manufacturers expect them to be washed along the track they've got to be kidding.
My pack was as tight as comfy, not flopping about but not making my legs and arms turn blue either. Pack weights on the jacket's 2 outings were 16.5 & 12.6kg. Once again if we're expected to wear our packs uncomfortably to protect our jacket then somebody has lost the plot.
At this point I'm happy to assume it's just been a fault with my jacket, but if anyone else's go the same way then Montane have some questions to answer.

[Nuts]

That "sweeping" comment (hardly!)

Maybe i'm being too harsh, just seems that ent has taken the opportunity to bag 'eVent' since its first mention here?, never seeming to acknowledge the fact that it isn't one particular product other than that used in any given jacket? Meanwhile always mentioning and comparing an alternative jacket that weighs (and costs) three times as much... ( )

I have seen a particular Montane Jacket that held up acceptably, also had a few duds, stopped buying while the bad reviews are around.

For the same use we had Goretex XCR. They lasted two summers (perhaps 30 weeks use) before starting to show signs of failure. If the current eVent jackets last as long that will be good enough?

[Ent]

Maybe i'm being too harsh, just seems that ent has taken the opportunity to bag 'eVent' since its first mention here?, never seeming to acknowledge the fact that it isn't one particular product other than that used in any given jacket?

Meanwhile always mentioning and comparing an alternative jacket that weighs (and costs) three times as much... ( )

Not sure what the above means? So unless I sing the praises I am bagging it? One particular product? Not comparing weights?

Sorry the only thing I understand is you are being too harsh and expressing an opinion of my opinion that is not my opinion. Yeap I can write confusingly as well.

Let me see. I am very happy with eVent Rab trousers but the exact same brand model got hammered by another poster. My critism of my eVent Venture jacket is mainly the design not the fabric Yes some rubbing but hardly carried on about that. Commented that I have not yet struck the same issue of Sthughes with delamination on the Air but it is still young.

Ok the negatives. At Pelion the crowd were not singing the praises of eVent. On the WA trip the sole eVent jacket user was not a happy camper. Read Wayno 's comments and Sthughes. So am I the sole voice?

On the weight issue what is the point? Are not all rain shells for trekking, tramping, or bushwalking suspose to be able to handle a pack? Is there some magical element that I am missing? Like never post negative comments on light weight stuff?

So we have a yet unnamed brand and model that is great. Ok enlighten us.

You post negative comments on the Exped product but I have found my great as has a friend. Am I to take your words and reverse our names in insert Exped in place of eVent?

It would be great to discuss products and materials without such comments as "bagging" but sadly this appears not to be the case.

Puzzled.

[blacksheep]

macpac resolutions arent lightweight jackets, it has the heaviest material on the shoulders and the event has still delaminated on mine after only wearing it a handful of times with a full overnight pack...

well that's not acceptable. did you send it back for assessment?

[Nuts]

Sorry ent, I can't help out other than repeat what I said.. even if i could bother to drag through old posts, yours likely have been cleared...Rather than fussing over that though, have a look back and you'll find the particular brand and model that 'seems ok so far'. (If you also care to look back further you'll see exactly how (and how many) exped mats failed. Photo's and detailed discussion and outcome for those particular mats. I'm all for saying 'X failed' 'heres how' 'this was the outcome' I only mention those failures when someone starts getting carried away with praise and did say that 'they may have worked it out now'.. I too know a few people who have had a good experience.. there always are!!).

Theres an excellent contribution here by PiniPowPow, I see that as a positive. Perhaps Wayno would like to discuss his particular experience maybe reference his comments for a proper context?

No doubt, theres a few failures (as iv'e mentioned also). Its been good to hear about them and see what steps are taken to fix any problems in any particular case.

Last edited by Nuts on Tue 24 Apr, 2012 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[wayno]

certainly makes you think twice about buying event if you're into longer trips if body oils contribute to delamination at least in some models.
if you can't clean it reglarly before the oils build up you're looking at a higher risk of delamination....

[wayno]

i wondered why the surface of my event jacket had gone all bumpy in it's texture, then when i saw the photos posted here i realised it was delamination

[Ent]

Hi Nuts

I think you might be confusing my eVent opinion with my Montane experience of a 200 jacket which was not eVent but a different fabric. I have been experimenting with lighting my rainshell from 1.6kg downwards. Attempt one the Montane 200 was a disaster on day one of actual use. Still remember the found memories of been called clumsy on this forum for falling over in mid winter on icy rocks But with true karma my patience was rewarded

Attempt 2 is the Rab mid weight eVent pants and Montane Venturer jacket. Weight down to 1 kilogram. It is probably the best compromise between weight and wear. I tend to think I should have gone fully with Rab.

Also attempted was non eVent MD Photon pants (Repel) and Chux (well that yellow rain wear that name alludes me). But this was more an experiment and given the low cost has proved for a fellow walker a successful one.

Serious attempt three is the Montane Air. Also mixed in is a Kathmandu Pac-Lite jacket but the hood is a non event.

Maybe not up to testing everything but does give me a base to form an opinion. Also I pay interest in what other people use and their experiences. When you see someone cold and wet I am interested why. The reason, it could be me. Goretex users on the whole seem to be a pretty happy bunch but I am sure there will be a few that have not had good experiences with that fabric manufacturer.

Warranty is good but better still if that an item does not fail. Goretex puts great store by its warranty and adherence by manufacturers to standards. Sure this can be dismissed as expensive but it does appear to work very well for the non expert. The alternative for buyers is trawling through specifications but that is not much use unless you know what to look for. It appears that 40 denier is a magical number to at least one person. This means that minimum weight of a garment is fixed. But maybe some competitor with an eye to design or access to different lamination processes can push that barrier. If a manufacturer claims some purpose then we should be able to take their word for it. If it works then they deserve praise if it does not then the converse.

Basically years of use by my PP Vista and I have not been let down as with the pants. Crashing down on conglomerate rock shattering a pole only to look at my jacket and finding no damage leaves a favorable impression that is not easily set aside by saving a few grams.

In this thread the latest posts have been on the suitability of a jacket for carrying a pack not on impact or tear resistance so there is no wriggle room on user abuse claims. It is easy with Goretex as you are told what is the intended use for a jacket is. Sure, if you like, you can take an Active-Shell and use it hauling a twenty-kilogram plus pack and find it works great. If it did not, then at least you were told that it was not the intended purpose. Much as I brought the Kathmandu Pac-lite with full knowledge it was not intended for pack use. It did a great job but the hood was a joke.

What jacket is worth having, the one that breaths the best, lasts the longest, or is the lightest? Each reader and poster has their own views. I am forming the view that light weight is an excuse to extract more money for less life. Fine if that is your only choice due to health condition or your decision but not a valid basis to push a viewpoint. Just be nice to know what the sweet spot is in fabric weight. Personally I hope it is the eVent Montane Air but might be wrong yet again. In this case I hope not because Montane have got the design right, the hood is excellent.

I have been watching with interest a fellow walker's breathable Cuban jacket. It has done enough kilometres to be worthwhile watching. It makes the Montane Air look heavy.

Regards

[forest]

I find the delam issues with the montane air jackets a worry.... I have one too !!

Mine now has a bit more use under the belt, probably seen about 25 hours wear use now with a pack (Generally sub 10 kgs)
I've also worn mine shotgun shooting for about 150 rounds fired. That I would imagine should create quite a specific pressure / friction point on the shoulder area.
No issues with mine yet so fingers crossed.

Not sure if it's a "eVent" issue though.
I have a pair of RAB Bergen pants that would have seen over a 100 hours of use. Primarily as shell pants riding a quad bike around a farm. (But still plenty of days walking too)
Now that there should create plenty of friction on the seat from me bouncing all over the place. Maybe not the same as a pack, but friction and weight none the less.
No delam issues at all. Maybe some fading in the shell from use but after a good wash and DWR touch up they still are the best shell pants I own.

I don't know if jackets need to be uber thick to be classed as performers.
My Arc'teryx Theta SL is a bit of paclite and a bit of pro shell in the high wear area's (Hybrid they call it) which has seen as much, if not more use than the RAB pants.
No wear on that either and it's only a 400g jacket.

Doesn't breath as well as eVent though so I really hope there has just been some dud's floating about as I'm a fan of the stuff.

[Tony]

I have been using a Macpac Traverse jacket for a while now and I am very happy with it, I have used it on several wet days and as a wind break in very cold conditions on the main range, all carrying a full pack, the only thing with it is the DWR has started to wear off around the shoulders but this was expected and I will redo the DWR before this snowshoe season.

eVent and Gortex both use PTFE (as most of the others breathable rain wear does) as the membrane, the difference between eVent and Gortex as Blacksheep has pointed out, is that Gortex has a PU coating on the inside to slow down body oils clogging of the pores, that is why Event needs more washing than Gortex.

My first Gortex jacket delaminated after 7 years, I returned it and was given a new jacket, that was over ten years ago and I still use my gortex jacket when I am not worried about weight.

Tony

[Ent]

My first Gortex jacket delaminated after 7 years, I returned it and was given a new jacket, that was over ten years ago and I still use my gortex jacket when I am not worried about weight.
Tony

That is pretty impressive warranty service. Did you have any arguments or was it "sorry sir I will get you a new one now" type experience?

Cheers

[Tony]

That is pretty impressive warranty service. Did you have any arguments or was it "sorry sir I will get you a new one now" type experience?

Cheers

Hi Ent,

It was good service, the Jacket was from Mountain Designs, I could not find my receipt, the jacket was well looked after and was in very good condition, the store sent the jacket back to the Australian Gortex agent and a couple of weeks later I recieved a phone call saying the warranty claim was good, there was no arguments at all, the store manager for a small cost even allowed me to upgrade to the then top model.

Tony

[Ent]

That is pretty impressive warranty service. Did you have any arguments or was it "sorry sir I will get you a new one now" type experience?

Cheers

Hi Ent,

It was good service, the Jacket was from Mountain Designs, I could not find my receipt, the jacket was well looked after and was in very good condition, the store sent the jacket back to the Australian Gortex agent and a couple of weeks later I recieved a phone call saying the warranty claim was good, there was no arguments at all, the store manager for a small cost even allowed me to upgrade to the then top model.

Tony

It gladdens the heart to read of such service and thanks for adding that experience.

Cheers

[oyster_07]

If anyone is after a UL jacket, the Montaine LightSpeed is 70% off at the below link.

http://www.mainpeak.com.au/clearance/mo ... ns-11.html

I have a different Montaine jacket and love it. They have a great athletic and motion-friendly cut.

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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1335264415.445065.jpg (15.8 KiB) Viewed 9754 times

[wayno]

at this rate i'm starting to think along the lines of drizabone......

[Penguin]

I was on the same trip when Sthughes's jacket delaminated. I left my Montane Event kacket at home and took my Zpacks Cuben Jacket.

In cleaning up today the Zpacks jacket has survived the Western Arthurs and Reynolds falls without sings of excessive wear, very waterproof and does seem to breath.

Zpack jacket.jpg (32.13 KiB) Viewed 9711 times

Cannot say the same for the Cuben Chaps. They are wearing where my knees rub together, the material is developing pinpoint holes.

So the question becomes: Rain trousers - what's worth having?

Last edited by Penguin on Wed 25 Apr, 2012 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

Just to say that that isn't Penguin, he's much more stylish looking Did you mean that the Zpacks has survived..?

[Penguin]

Just to say that that isn't Penguin, he's much more stylish looking Did you mean that the Zpacks has survived..?

Well spotted Nuts - post edited.

A sytlish penguin - sartorial is not a word I would have used

original-penguin-coupon.jpg (17.72 KiB) Viewed 9694 times

now what about thoughts for lightweight rain trousers?

[Nuts]

Make Some!!??, you have the skills, technology and the reinforcement patches...

[Penguin]

Make Some!!??, you have the skills, technology and the reinforcement patches...

I thought of modifying the current ones with the bits and pieces I have. It would be worth a go. May pester you for a few ideas from you experience.

P

[wayno]

looking at the prices of a lot of the lightweight gear I opted for an outdoor research helium 2, $100, 200gm in the states, although its going for $130 now, if it doesnt last long then at least i havent spent up to the $300 some of the other jackets cost..... its only going to be used if there isnt a lot of rain around or only a chance of rain,
any worse weather and I"ve got a heavier jacket already to switch to.
unless i get really enamoured with lightweight gear who knows i might try something more expensive but my main jacket is a columbia peak to peak, onmi dry, very breathable, great DWR, 450 grams, personally saving a hundred or so grams to me isnt worth it now that i've already got a jacket.

[slparker]

Japara.... you know you want to...

[norts]

Walked out of Lees paddock this morning, one of the party had a brand new Macpac Hollyford, this was his first walk with it. By the time we got to carpark , the water was not beading and was beginning to wet out. it will be going back to the Macpac store in Sydney. The other person on the walk was also using a Hollyford, this was its second walk in bad weather and it was still beading nicely.

Roger