another hunter kills person in nz again

[wayno]

not unusual for this time of year in nz

http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/6742932/Someone-has-to-pay-for-this

[Moondog55]

actually it is quite unusual, hunting isn't all that dangerous but ya know accidents do happen, it is an accepted risk.

[wayno]

most years in nz, especially during the roar one or more people in the bush are shot dead by hunters not identifying their target.

[icemancometh]

actually it is quite unusual, hunting isn't all that dangerous but ya know accidents do happen, it is an accepted risk.

But what about like last year or was it the year before with that lady schoolteacher who was NOT a hunter? Did she accept the risk?

[wayno]

actually it is quite unusual, hunting isn't all that dangerous but ya know accidents do happen, it is an accepted risk.

But what about like last year or was it the year before with that lady schoolteacher who was NOT a hunter? Did she accept the risk?

wasnt an accident, the shooter was convicted, along with his mates. he was shooting illegally around a DOC campsite , at night spotlighting from the back of a truck. he took her headlamp as the reflection of a deers eye in the spotlight.
she should have expected to be totally safe

most shooting incidents are usually the shooter and the person shot are in the same hunting party. not identifying their target and or shooting at movement and or sound. almost never prosecuted.....

if theres an accepted risk its only if you recognise that there are iresponsible hunters out there.

[forest]

I'm just appauled by this. Utterly no excuse.

As a hunter myself there is no reason for this to happen. The poor guy even had a orange hat on.
I was out on Friday chasing roaring stags and it's a vocal activity in the roar. I'd imagine in an area overloaded with hunters that moving towards one another calling out deer sounds, thinking that it's a deer is a possibility.
Still there is no excuse for someone firing at something they haven't correctly identified. No excuse at all.

I'm confused as to why the shooter hadn't realised what he had done. After all, If I fired at "something" wouldn't one be going over to see if he had hit it ??

If everyone is responsible there should be no risk to anyone from hunter. Like all sports there is always some fool that gives everyone a bad name.

[wayno]

the shooter may have realised what he had done but didnt want to be responsible for it...
last year a hunter claimed he found another hunter who had been shot, it turned out he didnt just innocently find him, he had shot him first....
some of these people are completely irresponsible and spineless

[Strider]

the shooter may have realised what he had done but didnt want to be responsible for it...

Too bad - should have considered that when pulled the trigger!

[pazzar]

the shooter may have realised what he had done but didnt want to be responsible for it...
last year a hunter claimed he found another hunter who had been shot, it turned out he didnt just innocently find him, he had shot him first....
some of these people are completely irresponsible and spineless

And what if the person shot didn't die? Not checking is manslaughter, I'm my eyes just as bad as murder. That could be someone's husband/wife or father/mother. ...I think their actions are indefensible".

mod: please, you're free to exchange opinions, but keep it friendly...

[Strider]

the shooter may have realised what he had done but didnt want to be responsible for it...
last year a hunter claimed he found another hunter who had been shot, it turned out he didnt just innocently find him, he had shot him first....
some of these people are completely irresponsible and spineless

And what if the person shot didn't die? Not checking is manslaughter, I'm my eyes just as bad as murder. That could be someone's husband/wife or father/mother. Why are you hell bent on defending their actions?

He's not defending them. He's putting forward a possible scenario that might explain that persons actions- right OR wrong.

Sent from my MB526 using Tapatalk 2

[puredingo]

Any idiot who has ever owned a measly .22 knows damn well you do not pull the trigger unless you can clearly identify the target. Gun laws are already severley tight in Aust. the way things are going with these rednecks things will be closed down altogether.

[icemancometh]

what good is that to her though? or her family?

actually it is quite unusual, hunting isn't all that dangerous but ya know accidents do happen, it is an accepted risk.

But what about like last year or was it the year before with that lady schoolteacher who was NOT a hunter? Did she accept the risk?

wasnt an accident, the shooter was convicted, along with his mates. he was shooting illegally around a DOC campsite , at night spotlighting from the back of a truck. he took her headlamp as the reflection of a deers eye in the spotlight.
she should have expected to be totally safe

most shooting incidents are usually the shooter and the person shot are in the same hunting party. not identifying their target and or shooting at movement and or sound. almost never prosecuted.....

if theres an accepted risk its only if you recognise that there are iresponsible hunters out there.

[sailfish]

In some ways it seems simple that getting a clean kill should be a legal requirement if only to ensure the ethical killing of the target animal. That of course requires 100% identification of the target. Failure to comply by say shooting at sound or movement must become legal negligence resulting manslaughter in these cases. Does NZ not have such a legal requirement?

In any case, self regulation or education doesn't seem to be getting the message across, maybe some well publicised convictions are needed to drive it home.

Regards,
Ken

[wayno]

an article on the news recently about someone shooting at other hunters in another nz park
" Anybody convicted of operating a firearm with reckless disregard for the safety of others faces a penalty of up to three years in jail, a fine of up to $4000 or both."

it's rare for people to b convicted, most shootings are mates shooting mates... the system doesnt want to prosecute them
recently there was a prosecution with a jail term when someone was spotllighting illegally in a national park near a camping ground and a camper was shot when the shooter mistook the campers led light as the reflection of a deer's eye from the spotlight....
he was convicted of manslaughter.,
he was remorseful for his action and looked visibly distraught.
other hunters have gotten off with killing others even when they havent been remorseful.
the above conviction created mixed opinions given less remoresful people walk free.
this is at least the third shooting fatality in a year in nz. in one case the shooter claimed they had only found the person they had in fact shot dead...
I know a tramper who was shot at walking along a track. he never saw the hunter. i'v seen hunter hunting along well used tracks in low light.

[corvus]

I personally do not agree with Hunting for pleasure however it is a legitimate seasonal
pastime and I for one would plan my walks where there was no hunting activity occurring JIC.
corvus

[wayno]

we need hunters in nZ,with nothing else to predate on the deer they are everywhere in the forest eating masses of young plants and trees.

[Tony]

I do not think there is any excuse for killing someone while hunting.

A few years ago I was walking the track into the Korunga River Forks Hut (NI NZ) to do some fly fishing, and walking the other way where two hunters with guns in hand ready to shoot, this scared the crap out of me as where I walk in Australia is National Park and guns recreational hunting are totally illegal and I have never seen anyone in a NP with a gun or even heard gunshots.

The next evening two hunters and dogs turned up to the Korunga River Forks Hut to do some pig hunting in the area, we spent a very pleasant evening around a camp fire chatting, one of the hunters was a possum trapper and spent a lot of time in the bush, some of the stories he told, where frightening and he has seen hunters shooting across popular walking tracks.

While most hunters and shooters do the right thing, the unfortunate thing is that guns are easily obtained and it is very hard to vet out the nutters, quite a few years ago a work colleague dropped into my home for a visit, his interest was target shooting with rifles and pistols, he was a prominent member of the local gun club, when I answered the knock on my door he was standing there with his pistol pointing at my head, he thought it was a great joke, I let it go at the time, I am sure he went through all of the gun club training, and he would not have done the same at his club, but these days I if someone pointed a gun at my head I would definitely report it to police.

Last year while walking in the Dart Valley we heard gunshots, it turned out some DOC's contract goat hunters where in the area.

we need hunters in nZ,with nothing else to predate on the deer they are everywhere in the forest eating masses of young plants and trees.

My walking mate is a Ecologist scientist and did some work on deer in NZ early in his career, he has told me that recreational hunting of deer has very little impact on deer numbers.

Tony

[sailfish]

In regard to the conviction that has been mentioned several times in this thread, the hunter was breaking a law (legal definition) and someone was killed while (as a result) he was doing it. Therefore his action can be defined as negligence or reckless behaviour resulting in a death, ie manslaughter by definition. From what people have written here I think this is the reason this person was charged and convicted while others even showing no remorse at all were not. This is the point I was trying to make earlier, if the definitions are tightened up, what is considered an accident now could be redefined as negligence or recklessness. It’s a matter of how far NZ want to go with this.

Regards,
Ken

[recurveron]

, this scared the crap out of me as where I walk in Australia is National Park and guns recreational hunting are totally illegal and I have never seen anyone in a NP with a gun or even heard gunshots.

Tony

I know your probably talking about Canberra but for others reference , hunting is allowed in quite a few National parks in victoria between certain periods , i think Feb 15th to Nov. I would guess through the winter months hunters would be one of the majority users of the Alpine national park second probably to skiers?

[Strider]

we need hunters in nZ,with nothing else to predate on the deer they are everywhere in the forest eating masses of young plants and trees.

Not just deer either. Pigs, goats, possums and rabbits cause an unimaginable amount of damage.

[taswegian]

Any shooting in the bush can have serious consequences that were bought home recently when working in scrub at Middlesex (near Cradle Mt.) and we heard dogs then gunshots.
It was pretty offputting as 'they' would have no knowledge of us and we had no idea where they were.
12 gauge shotguns don't carry far but high powered rifles are another matter.
We didn't have a gun so couldn't make similar 'noises' to warn them of our presence.
Not sure what the answer to that is.

[matagi]

Any shooting in the bush can have serious consequences that were bought home recently when working in scrub at Middlesex (near Cradle Mt.) and we heard dogs then gunshots.
It was pretty offputting as 'they' would have no knowledge of us and we had no idea where they were.
12 gauge shotguns don't carry far but high powered rifles are another matter.
We didn't have a gun so couldn't make similar 'noises' to warn them of our presence.
Not sure what the answer to that is.

Whistle? As in the kind you blow into.

[Tony]

Many years ago at the Cotter River near Canberra just down stream from the Cotter Dam, a fisherman was found shot dead, the investigating police found some bullet shells and some empty beer cans with bullet holes in them on top of a hill some distance away, between the hill and the river was a picnic area, a camp ground and a busy road. The police took a few years but they eventually tracked the careless shooter down.

, this scared the crap out of me as where I walk in Australia is National Park and guns recreational hunting are totally illegal and I have never seen anyone in a NP with a gun or even heard gunshots.

Tony

I know your probably talking about Canberra but for others reference , hunting is allowed in quite a few National parks in victoria between certain periods , i think Feb 15th to Nov. I would guess through the winter months hunters would be one of the majority users of the Alpine national park second probably to skiers?

Thanks for that information recurveron,

I was not aware that Victoria allowed hunting in NP, I did some surfing on the net, while hunting is currently not allowed in NSW and ACT NP's, the NSW shooters party are putting a lot of pressure on the NSW gov to allow hunting in NSW NP's, I hope in never happens.

Tony

[dplanet]

There is no way that I would plan my walks at places where hunting is allowed.

[Rob A]

Its a shame you wont ever hike kiwi, its well worth it. Flights are cheap, everything is pretty well organised for getting you on and off walks, and you can still hitch. For the walks you are more likely to do it is very unlikely that you will have hunter problems.

[wayno]

the vast majority of shootings are during the roar at the start of autumn when the stags are easily heard and more easily seen and the huters are out in force.
hunters prefer to avoid the popular tracks, they tend to avoid areas where trampers frequent, and they usually have to head off the tracks to find the deer, for these reasons it's almost always hunters that are shot by other hunters off track in thick bush.
hunters are banned around the great walks.
i seldom come across hunters outside of the roar.., if i'm tramping in the roar i'm likely to be on a well established track and havent had trouble with hunters.

[tasadam]

when I answered the knock on my door he was standing there with his pistol pointing at my head, he thought it was a great joke,

With friends like that, who needs enemies?
Joke?
What a prick!

[Lindsay]

the vast majority of shootings are during the roar at the start of autumn when the stags are easily heard and more easily seen and the huters are out in force.
hunters prefer to avoid the popular tracks, they tend to avoid areas where trampers frequent, and they usually have to head off the tracks to find the deer, for these reasons it's almost always hunters that are shot by other hunters off track in thick bush.
hunters are banned around the great walks.
i seldom come across hunters outside of the roar.., if i'm tramping in the roar i'm likely to be on a well established track and havent had trouble with hunters.

I think the DOC website says hunters can use the great walk tracks for access to the side valleys? How far away from the tracks do they go?

[wayno]

yes no hunting within 500m of the great walk tracks at least. nothing to stop a hunter using the tracks themselves
how far from the track depends on the hunters, usually anything from hundreds of metres to several kilometres, the more trampers there are around the further from the track they'd have to go to find deer. although after dark on the caples i have stepped out of a hut to relieve myself and just about literally bumped right into a deer.
i've only seen deer once in daylight on the upper reaches river valley flat without a track in the tararuas, took them a while to cotton on to me as well even though i was moving in the open, must have been fairly relaxed to be out in the open in daylight.
deer are more confident about walking near tracks at night.
some people believe deer also know how to count the days of the week and are more likely to be seen in the open during the days of the week, i havent seen much evidence to support this..
chamois dont seem to be as shy, i've seen one next to the routeburn in daylight.
a certain no of hunters fly to remote areas with helicopters,,, pisses you off a bit when you turn up to a hut and they are cooking up a wide array of mouth watering fresh food.

[dplanet]

when I answered the knock on my door he was standing there with his pistol pointing at my head, he thought it was a great joke,

My experience with hunters I met on tramps in NZ was positive. Most were friendly and nice.