Mapping GSPs, no perfect experience

[Ent]

Well I now have had a reasonable length of time brawling with my Garmin 62s and the TOPO Australia & New Zealand maps. There is no doubt that the Garmin 62s gives excellent performance in tracking and battery life but the interface has been designed by some socially dysfunctional sub species of the Geek grouping. Yes, you can eventually get to do what you want but only after numerous menus. Even marking a waypoint with a name shows someone has not bother to think, “can I do it better”.

But hardware aside the purpose of the post is to highlight that Garmin’s maps are very dubious quality. Lets take just the last two wanders. The first was Mount Murchinson and the second Mount Rianna. Murchinson has the distinction on not being called that on Garmin’s map. From memory one of the high points that could be the true summit was called “Queens Head” or similar. Mount Rianna was even worse with the so call true summit requiring an air bridge to get to a cloud that might be the summit location it claims. It is clear that Garmin do not consider accurate placement and naming of peaks a high priority. As for tracks. Well, none appear! The mapping is designed for vehicle navigation, not for walking navigation unless trekking means driving? Quite a few rivers and creeks are named but that is about the end of the naming. As for the contour lines. Well, maybe Garmin maps is better placed in the fiction rather than the non fiction section of the library.

Ok with Garmin you get good hardware with a clunky interface and poor maps for bushwalking. What is another option?

Well interested in using the iPhone 4s as a GPS running Memory-Map. Ignoring the usual issues that it is a phone not a dedicated GPS on the grounds it will be a backup I have been looking at making it rugged enough to not be killed in the first rain event. So step one was a decent waterproof case. Went for the Life Proof case. Does not appear to be too bad so the phone is protected from a dunking and rain while being accessible.

Next step is Memory-Map. Well the so called free app that is plastered over their website is not free! Their Australian website got pinged by AVG as compromised complete with advertising for a blue pill. Ok, download the non free app from the Apple store. The claimed maps were no where to be found! Hang on, a friend that had previously download the true free Memory-Map had access to maps? In the shambling ruins that is Memory-Maps website it turns out you need to download the maps to a PC and then pay extra to use the PC version. So the cost climbs from $99 to $149. If you are on limited bandwidth such as 3G for an extra $100 you can get a disk. Never, realised how expensive DVD rom disks are!

Now why the change? An email got a response from Memory-Map. Apple store takes 40% of the selling price so the devious individuals at Memory-Map decided to “sell” the app, despite claiming it is free on their website, and then bypass Apple and charge the user outside the iStore for the maps. All done to maximise Memory-Maps profit rather than make a users life easy. So you know need a PC to actually get an iPhone app to work!

So thankyou Memory-Map for forcing me back to my PC. Well as Garmin’s failed drivers had turned my very reliable laptop into a wreck (Garmin on their own forum makes interesting reading on how arrogant Garmin is in recognising problems and slow fixing them). Sufficient to say I was forced into a complete ground up rebuild of my laptop to overcome numerous issues that plague Windows 7 computers that have had suspect software installed. So, after a very long time of installing the endless updates I finally got my laptop back into reliable condition. The process meant I would be very careful installing software to ensure that the drivers and such things are certified as Windows 7 suitable. I am tired of “it should/will work just ignore the error messages” that has become the defence of inept programmers.

So navigating through Memory-Map’s website I eventually found the software to download to start the process. Sorry sir your operating system is not supported. Hang on, I have Windows 7 Home Premium? Turns out Memory-Map use a virtual install which is only supported on Windows 7 Professional. Now apparently Windows Home Premium may/might/could install the software but it is not supported as Microsoft reserve the virtual parts of the operating system to “force” business into paying more for the Professsional version. I do not care that it might work. Windows tells me it is not supported and after wasting a huge chunk of my life on Windows 7 dying I am not prepared to repeat that process simply because Memory-Map programmers are indifferent to home PC users.

On an aside, how well does and iPhone perform as a GPS? Well on tracking battery life is killed in about six hours I found. The tracks are ok except for step sections where the tracking is indifferent while the Garmin 62s tracks true. My friend’s iPhone direction arrow would change colour and then randomly point anywhere. So lets use the Garmin. Err, not really. It would track true to false points on Garmin’s map. No good having accurate position if the maps are wrong.

In all very unhappy as you can imagine with both Garmin and Memory-Map. I am rather disgusted that Memory-Map “flog” stuff through the iStore and then force you to go direct to them and use a PC simply so they can circumvent iStore’s policies. The older true free version of the app is how it should have been done, but instead they have chosen to be cute.

As for Tasmap. Well if you have a spare grand you can get the electronic maps from them. Hang on, $99-$149 in USA dollars but over grand in Aussie dollars. And the Tasmanian Minister is happy with this situation by all accounts. So price gouge the locals and give the copywrite away to some USA based approach.

When the Police next grumble on bushwalkers getting lost with no maps and I will respond with the stupidity that we face caused by their bureaucratic brethren in Tasmaps and Parks. Tasmaps are often very old and out of date with tracks expunged by the megalomaniacs buried deep in Park’s bureaucracy. As for Garmin’s maps, well fine for street use. For Memory-Map. A shambles of a company that cannot even protect their own website and do some very strange things that are designed to help them maximise their profit, not help their customers.

Frankly the mapping GPS situation, at least with Tasmanian maps, is a very poor joke. In fact, the paper maps themselves are only a shadow of the older ones due to poor quality paper now being used and Parks “editing”.

Cheers

[frenchy_84]

Surely in the time its taken you to write this rant you could have started your own mapping software development company to show the multitude of inept people out there how its done.

[Strider]

Surely in the time its taken you to write this rant you could have started your own mapping software development company to show the multitude of inept people out there how its done.

Well said. Positivity makes things happen....

[Son of a Beach]

It took me a liiiiiiittle bit longer than that and a bit more than just positivity to write my own mapping/GPS/navigation software.

Even the second time around.

[frenchy_84]

And i do applaud your commitment Ent, on a rant about GPS useabilty you still manage to get in and have a go at PWS and the Government. Just love it.

[photohiker]

Well, Ent, you still have unexplored options

Generally, I choose the best available map for the task at hand. I do not have Garmin Topo for this reason.

My go-to Garmin map for Tassie is Shonkymaps with Contours Australia 5m overlay. Shonky is based off the Geoscience Australia 1:250k topo data, so it is no Tasmap 1:50k, but it does have good basic data. Contours Australia is based on the SRTM data and I have found it to be pretty good, well worth a try, and I bet it is way better than what comes with Garmin topo.

Sometimes you will find the place you are visiting has been mapped in OSM (Openstreetmap). If it has, then you have the option of using that via opencyclemap on its own or again coupled with CA. If you're keen, you can even upload your tracks to OSM and map them for the convenience of future walkers to the area. If you have MotionX on your phone, you can preview it as it is one of the included map options. You can also see it in your browser at opencyclemap.org

If there are any important places I will be visiting, I make sure to research the location and place an accurate waypoint on the GPS before I leave. This helps manage errors or missing info in the mapping.

These are do-it-yourself solutions. You have to work to understand the process of obtaining the mapping and getting it onto your GPS. The benefit is that you could potentially have 2 or 3 sets of topo mapping with you on the GPS to choose from at any time.

There is yet another alternative to both these options and the Garmin option: OZtopo. I've not felt the need, but have heard good things. Cost you $229 apparently.

So yea, you've only just scratched the surface Ent

[Ent]

The issue is I strongly believe that maps should be an accurate representation of the terrain given the limitations of scale and using two dimensional representation. Also software needs to be better written. And honesty in stating known problems would go a long way to help rather than remaining silent.

Even if I wrote a GPS mapping application I still would face massively high map cost from Tasmap and have hobbled maps. So is the answer to develop my own maps?

I write as I find things. Garmin's maps are not up to scratch for bushwalking and a rival can source, on sell, maps at a price that is a fraction of the maps brought direct from Tasmaps. I find that strange.

Recently the Police grumbled about a group lost heading to Reynolds Falls. Not great idea apart from media reports on what went wrong but can state that Tasmaps of that area are a shambles.

Surely it is not that hard to quality control products. I am glad that my car, toaster, etc are not being done to such a standard.

If you look at other countries electronic maps are sensibly priced if not even free. The big issue is paper maps can be out of print.

Cheers

[frenchy_84]

So in a time when the government has to slash the health budget you think it is ok for the government to employ more cartographers to ensure maps are revised more frequently?

[Tony]

Hi Ent,

Nice rant, one thing I do agree 110% is that Garmin instructions and interface are well below par, in fact I would say they are absolutely terrible, if I want to know something about Garmin GPS's I go the Garmin forums, it is most likely that if you are having problems so is everyone else and if the instructions do not have the information someone has worked out how to do and kindly posted the information.

There is an another way with Garmin mapping GPS's, you can make your own custom maps, as you would already have a paper map you can scan your desired map, geo-reference it Google Earth and place the map in Custom map folder. The method of how to do this is here.

Tony

[Ent]

So in a time when the government has to slash the health budget you think it is ok for the government to employ more cartographers to ensure maps are revised more frequently?

Long experience had taught me that there is always a crisis of such magnitude somewhere in health, education or another critical area of government so not to do anything else. Welcome to management by panic.

Let's take Renoylds Falls. The waterproof map from Parks is 1:100,000 and does not have the track. The 1;100,000 for the area does have the track. Why does the track not appear on Park's map? Their maps are customized for them with tracks removed. So in these tight monetary time someone had the time to have a track removed.

Not an expert on what software Tasmsp uses but if it is like a lot of GIS software you have layers so if a track appears on say the 1:100,000 map it should be simple matter to migrate it to the 1:25,000 map. I would accept that human intervention would be required to avoid 1:100,000 maps becoming unreadable with too many tracks but surely if it appears on the 1:100,000 map it should appear on the 1:25,000 map?

Ok lets now look at Garmin. They charge a sizeable sum of money and use the selection "trekking" to assist you in buying the right maps. Tracks do not appear on them and as mentioned even the mountains are wrong.

Sorry, a lot of money is been charged for maps in Tasmanian and what we are getting is poor. As mentioned even if I wrote a mapping application my purchase price for the mapping data is many times greater than say buying maps from Memory-maps. So I find my cheapest approach is to buy Tasmanian maps in USA dollars.

Pity Memory-maps has now chosen to circumvent iStore and to ignore Windows Home Premium.

Thanks for the link Tony. I have been watching your progress. Yes the Garmin forums are a good place for infiormation assuming the trolls are not about. My issue with drivers and resetting a device came from them. Garmin is not well liked even by people that use them.

Cheers

[bmak]

Gives us more reason to contribute to OSM to make it the best option available and you cant beat free.

[tastrax]

Agree with lots of your points Ent

I have an ancient Magellan, garmin12, etrex, Garmin 60csx, Garmin 62SC. I have tried a couple of the Garmin extra map products and couldn't agree more - in most cases they are less than adequate (but not for the same reasons as you have found). OzTopo is generally a better product (for some of my uses)

I have basically started to create my own private maps using the various techniques discussed on multiple sites on the web using free software, free gis data, private track data and many hours of internet research, trial and error and hair pulling. It takes many hours to get a great product and keep it updated.

Personally I agree with some tracks not showing up and we have discussed that previously on this forum. I suspect we will always disagree on this approach. The full details are always provided to emergency services.

Parks have even used commercial companies to get data created for specific projects such as the Macquarie Island Pest Eradication Project (http://www.ja-gps.com.au/map-solve/) - the costs for this are not insignificant (in the $1,000's not hundreds). You can use the same service if you have access to public data and want custom solutions (and if Garmin approves it)

Here are a few links to get you started down the free path

http://www.mapwel.net/
http://www.geopainting.com/
http://sites.google.com/site/cypherman1/
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Main_Page

[Ent]

Hi Tastrax

Thanks for the links. Gradually learning more and more on GPS and mapping. Probably more frustrated with Garmin maps than anything as they are rather poor in identifying geographical features such as mountains and I am rather underwhelmed with them for bushwalking as they are clearly better suited to road navigation. The track issue with Tasmap is as you write is one that we will have to agree to disagree upon. Still with the Reynold Falls situation it is rather puzzling as the track appears on one but not other maps plus is not in a national park. Much prefer education re sensitive areas compare to secrecy with mapping data and in a way the like of Chapman amongst others makes such debate often moot. I find it very contradictory that a clearly marked on the ground track exists but the track is expunged from the map. It does stuff up your navigation standing on an obvious road/track but not finding it on the map.

It is interesting reading the Garmin forums and appears more than a few of our thoughts on Garmin are held by many. But such research has allowed me to get my bike GPS, Garmin Edge 305, to work with Windows 7. Just wonder why Garmin annoyed so many people before acknowledging that there was an issue with their Window 7 drivers. As for Memory-map I had hoped that this would give me Tasmap but its games with iStore and use of the professional version of Windows 7 is rather typical of lack of thought to the customer.

With Tony's option might be able to get a manual workaround but rather weird that commercial options should be so flawed. As for Tasmaps charging policy you are rather forced into pre-existing commercial providers. I did quite like the OziExplorer option but quickly found that consumer grade electronics such as the IPAQ and iMate just did not appreciate cold wet conditions. One thing with the Garmin 62s is the hardware has not missed a beat despite some pretty rugged conditions it has encountered. But Garmin is wedded to selling its maps rather than getting the best mapping option for its customers.

I would wish that Tasmap would move to water proof paper as the current paper quality is very poor. Tasmap have confirmed that the old paper stock is no longer available so the paper that they use now is not their ideal choice. You are still sold 1:25,000 maps on GDA 66 with the 1:100,000 maps being the 94 GDA so endless stuffing around with setting the datum on GPS.

But as said will have a bit of a play around with the suggestions. As for Memory-maps technical support, it appears to be similar to Garmin.

As mentioned it was interesting to read about the group lost heading to Reynolds Falls. As said not too sure what actually happened there but it is easy enough to do given the difficulty in getting maps and reliable maps. Memory-Maps on iPhone is not a primary solution for a GPS as the battery life is very low and the units are not designed for wet and cold conditions. We may grumble about "unnecessary" rescues but believe me it is very hard to near impossible to get printed maps of some areas and as I have experienced the software options can be flawed.

Cheers

[weeman]

I've been more than happy with my Holux Funtrek 130. I purchased this unit from Memory-Maps and got the full Tasmania Topo maps (25k &100k) for free. The Funtrek uses a standard Nokia mobile phone battery which are dirt cheap online and gets 10-12hrs of tracking per charge. I was previously using my Android phone with Androzic GPS software but wanted a more rugged, waterproof option.

The best thing about the Funtrek is it uses the Windows CE operating system so you are free to load any CE apps. I've loaded Oziexplorer CE on mine & have all the NSW 25k & 100k topo maps loaded plus 250k Hema Australia maps.

[Ent]

Hi Weeman

Thanks for the idea. Now does the software license cover two computers and two portable devices or is it just for the device itself? Bit wary of advertisers words like "can" as this can mean "at enormous cost". Need to check out the Nokia battery as I have an old Nokia with a few spare batteries but knowing my luck they will be the wrong ones.

Now back to the Garmin and Memory-Map on the iPhones. First Memory-Map got back to me. They were having their own communication issues. Downloaded the version that they recommended, checked the digital signature, and it installed with not an issue. Have download the free 1:250,000 maps to have a play with it. Bandwidth cost on the Telstra 3G network will be an issue if I was to go that way. Hence, the interest in Weeman's solution.

On the weekend sthughes and I wandered up Mount Rianna. What would have been an easy walk was complicated by numerous fallen trees. Also there is no track so just head up until you hit the top. The terrain is not excessively step but heavily wooded. Good chance to compare the Garmin 62s plot with the iPhone plot. So here are the screenshots taken from Basecamp. We headed up and back slightly different ways and also sthughes zigged when I zagged around fallen trees. I tend to go over them and him under them, so some of the divergence is due to actually being on different ways down. On the up it was basically follow the leader.

Ok pick the better GPS. Note the 30 metre scale ruler.

Pick the better GPS

Now look where Garmin believes the mountain top to be!

So that is what you think Mr Garmin

Some observations. The 30 metre scale on the first picture highlights the rather scatter spread of data points achieved by the iPhone. The Garmin by comparison looks like a rock. Now the scale makes it look rather dramatic but in the real world seeing distance is the guide. The iPhone is likely close enough to get you to target but remember the terrain was not that hostile to GPS readings.

Garmins suggested peak is rather out. In fact dramatically out as you would be over a very serious cliff and heading down! Also the contour lines are more works of fiction. Or more kindly called artistic interpretation. Those being there will know that the peak has cliffs on one side and moderate climb the other. Put it another way. You can stroll up one side and abseil down the other. Just to remove all doubt here is a picture I prepared earlier where the Garmin Peak is.

Mind your step

Looking at Garmin's Basecamp map your would be rather unfazed on what is the best way up. But in real life you would mad or a rock climber to come up the side where we stopped.

Yeap, Garmin's expensive maps are best left to road use not bushwalking. Not sure what Garmin mean by trekking? Also for a laugh ask Garmin to plot the shortest route from Launceston to Projection Bluff. It will find a old "right of way" that would need a squad of D9 dozers and a world class bridge.


Cheers

[weeman]

Ent,

The TAS Topo maps came on an SD card with a licence for 2 computers and 2 portable devices. So far I have used them on my PC, the FunTrek 130 and my android tablet. The main reason I went down the Memory-Map path was due to the cost of the TAS Topo maps. I have been using Oziexplorer for years (on both Laptop/PC and portable devices) and have been very happy with it, however cannot justify the $1000+ just for the TAS maps.

[Miyata610]

.....Have download the free 1:250,000 maps to have a play with it. Bandwidth cost on the Telstra 3G network will be an issue if I was to go that way. Hence, the intrerest in Weeman's solution.

You can download the entire 1:25k and 1:100k Tasmap map bundle from memory-map via your home or work networked pc and install it on your iPhone and iPad via iTunes. That negates any need to use your device's network to retrieve maps in chunks. It is however nearly 4GB. I prefer this option so I have all maps with me all the time regardless of network status. Btw, they don't tell you how to do this, you need to ask them. It's not difficult but it took over an hour to download the files from their site.

I chose the cheaper license for two mobile devices, less than $100 at the time. I use them on my iPhone for when on the move and on the very high resolution iPad at home.

[greyim]

Recently with a guy using samsung galaxy phone, mapsource (with tas 25k for $230)
Very impressed...

[Son of a Beach]

Note that when discussing a scattering of waypoint plots recorded by an iPhone app (or for any device that is capable of having more than one navigation app installed) it may be misleading to label the device itself as producing scattered or inaccurate plots based on just one app (or even on a selection of apps).

In reality it is up to the app how it deals with the data it gets from the GPS. Some apps will wait until they have an accurate GPS reading before they plot the next point, whereas other apps may plot a point as soon as they have any GPS reading. Some apps will allow the user to specify the required accuracy.

With dedicated GPS device there is actually the hardware, the OS and the application software (albeit built in) that come into play. The same three factors are at play on a smart phone, but you get to choose the application. Therefore to make a useful comparison between the two classes of devices, the app being used should always be mentioned. Anything else would be generalising all apps available for that device based on the experience with just one (or a few) app(s) and therefore may be misleading.

I've found that varying the user-specified accuracy requirement makes a huge difference to the accuracy of tracked routes in some iPhone apps.

(Although I expect that a dedicated GPS is likely to be capable of more accurate GPS plotting than a multi-purpose device such as a smart phone.)

[Ent]

Hi SOB

Thanks for that information. The Garmin 62S is "so good" that I thought that the software might have been at play “smoothing” the data but it does have a decent antenna so not sure if that is the real reason. I would imagine that Mempory-Map on the iPhone would have been set to record as installed unless sthughes has had a play. In that case it must be take a point at a time interval regardless of the accuracy. One thing is in the samples that I have looked at the iPhone with Memory-Map are considerably more erratic than the Garmin. Up top with a clear sky view the iPhone performs well but on the hill climbs not so. The Spot 3 that sthughes uses is again good on ridgelines and little wayward on the gullys but might be better than the iPhone so something to test. As expected the Garmin 62S struggled a little in Tilted Chasm on the Western Arthurs but still well within practical tolerances.

It would be good to get the best mapping application for the iPhone and that is why my puzzlement and baseball bat is aimed at Tasmaps. Why can from Memory-Map I get the Tasmaps for two hand held devices for $99 or $149 if I want a PC version yet it is over a $1000 direct from Tasmaps? It is the same data! It appears that Tasmap was either a very poor negotiator with Memory-Maps or doing the typical lets price gouge the locals, they will not know any better. The pricing on the surface looks to be designed to direct people to one third party supplier. I have raised this matter with the Minister and got the pure spin response that I cannot summaries it as it says nothing. Tasmaps has some questions they should answer on their pricing. I would much prefer to buy the mapping application I like (or dislike the least) and then get maps but the industry has adopted “free” applications and selling mapping data.

In digging around I have found not much on maps applying to Tassie apart from this site, which is to be expected give the small population. But also very little on comparing GPS units with tracking accuracy. As for interface, well Garmin is terrible but then more than a few rival units on this site have similar tendencies to be unintelligible for the average person that uses them maybe once a month.

As for Garmin Maps getting increasingly suspicious that the twenty metre contour lines are extrapolated from the 1:250,000 base maps and interpolated rather than actual measurements. Basically, give the impression of accuracy that does not actually exist in the data. Tasmaps for Mount Rianna gives a good hint of the terrain while Garmin suggest a nice even contour spacing, which hints strongly at an averaging logarithm rather than empirical data. This makes Garmin Maps very suspect for bushwalking and even if the 62s has fantastic accuracy this is meaningless if the maps it uses are mere impressions of the terrain.

Cheers

[Son of a Beach]

I'm also very irritated by how difficult it is to buy digital versions of maps from Tasmap (I have my own topic describing my aborted attempts to do so a few years ago elsewhere on this forum). I don't agree with the reasoning, but I believe that Memory Maps sourced Tasmap maps are cheaper because they are in a closed proprietary format and it is not possible to use them with anything else other than Memory Maps (at least not easily).

If this reasoning is correct, then it again shows how out of touch Tasmap is from the reality of the digital age. When everybody else is encouraging online purchasing of digital products, Tasmap has extremely high prices in order to limit piracy. When in reality, extremely high prices is only going to increase piracy. I've tried very hard to buy a large quantity of their maps digitally for only personal use, but the cost was prohibitive and they sent me a 12 page contract to sign. I can't afford to hire a lawyer to help me buy maps! In what world is that reasonable???

(PS. Here's my old topic describing the aborted process of trying to buy maps from Tasmap on CD in 2009).

[Ent]

Hi

Decided to go with the Holux FT 130 and Tasmap packaged deal. Will this be the one?

I found Liamy77's thread on the unit and it appears ok. Now more batteries!

Did ask about the ability to have the maps orientated to the direction of travel and the answer is no for the following reason. Vector maps that say the Garmin use are data based so easy enough to orientate the words but on raster maps the map is nothing more than an imagine so words appear as on a printed map. Hence, Memory-Map does not bother with heading orientation.

Ok now the fun comes finding out what works as claimed and what does not. Also will do a small town wander with my units to see how each perform. Will check out Memory-Map settings on the iPhone to see if tracking accuracy can be improved.

I suppose the "perfect" solution would be unedited Tasmaps in vector format using the Garmin 62s with an interface design by someone that understands humans.

As for Tasmaps, the have not changed, stuck in the past with no interest in servicing locals with map quality going downhill in information, paper quality and availability. This will likely remain so until enough people wrangle their local Polly to the ground and/or change their vote. Just think, with some imagination they could sell mapping products that people can use. All it would take is a will to do so. If one thing that the iStore has shown if the price is fair people are less inclined to steal software.

If Tasmaps sold movies they would be in B&W on Beta format costing thousands of dollars with scenes removed.

Cheers

[dplanet]

Here is personal experience based on walks in Australian Alps.

Quite happy with Oregon 450 with features of high sensitive gps receiver, rugged touch screen, 2 AA batteries, Sunrise/set. Can record waypoints, tracks...

Not happy with garmin topo Australia & NZ version 3.00 (as many others discussed).
While I was unsure of gps handheld topo to purchase, then it came as a present. Oztopo is in mind.

At home I view walks on memo-map topo prefered more than basecamp which comes with the 450. Wonder myself why memo-map Topo 25k Victoria does not offer 100k like those of Tas (both 25k &100k).

Last edited by dplanet on Wed 30 May, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Ent]

Hi dplanet

Agree wholeheartly. I would even be prepared to invest the time to figure out the 62s interface or go for the Oregon but I can not live with Garmin's maps. Honestly, Shonkymaps is getting to the stage that buying Garmin's maps is very unattractive. Shonkymaps is free so have a look at them. They are better or as good maps for 4WD tracks as Garmin from what I have personally experienced. With a trick you can have both running on the 62S.

Cheers

[photohiker]

Based on the mention of Mt Riana, I went and captured images of what is available on the mapping.

There is no doubt that TasMap has the most information. The only pity there, apart from the price, is that they are scanned maps, and at relatively low resolution.

TasMap via thelist

Open CycleMap.org

OpenCyclemap.jpg (61.48 KiB) Viewed 27985 times

Google Terrain

GoogleTerrain.jpg (38.57 KiB) Viewed 27985 times

Shonky Full Topo

ShonkyTopo.jpg (26.48 KiB) Viewed 27985 times

Contours Aust. SRTM based 5Metre contours

ContoursAust.jpg (80.54 KiB) Viewed 27985 times

I can't do it on the computer, but if you imagine the Contours Australia overlaid on Shonky, that is one of my preferred options.

[photohiker]

I lied, just thought of a way to do it on the computer. Wonders of photoshop.

Shonky with Contours Australia overlay

ShonkyCA.jpg (80.2 KiB) Viewed 27981 times

[photohiker]

And, I've added Mt Riana to openstreetmap. If anyone has a gps waypoint for the peak, I'd be happy to update it.

Be nice to update and map the roads around there too if anyone has a GPS trace...

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

I had been planning to do this when Memory-Maps turned up. I have Garmin and Shonkymaps but not the others. The real test is how the map informs you of the terrain. Been trapped by a significant cliff line is a pain. Sure they will miss a 10 metre cliff, but here on Riana the cliff is significant on one side of the peak. It is almost dead flat on the top. Garmin does a poor job while Contour 5 does a reasonable job and as you say Tasmap being the best but compromised by being a scanned imagine of indifferent quality. I am not sure what Tasmap does re computerisation with their maps. Given the age of their maps it would not surprise me if more than a few 1:25,000 are hand drawn. Looking at the paper maps I get the feeling that they merely scanned the printed maps at say 300DPI then whacked grid co-ordinates over them and flog them off as the electronic version at $1,000 plus for the set.

My ancient memory recalls that 1:10,000 maps were once produced (I might have one but cannot find it) but were trashed under the first Labor-Green accord as the Greens felt that they were assisting firms with mineral exploration but that recollection is many, many years old and might have been a media beat-up of that times. One thing is certain though, maps in Tassie have been subject to political and bureaucratic interference for some time with Parks now playing censor in a Star Chamber way instead of through a community consultative process.

It does highlight that mapping data varies greatly. Also, if Tasmaps is wedded to the raster format then they should rescan the maps from the highest level of magnification at the highest sensible pixel rate. Old school resolution levels no longer apply given current GB memory storage and processor capable of churning through the data.

So it looks like Garmin uses extrapolation to create the impression of accuracy rather than the reality and Tasmaps needs to rescan their maps at a higher resolution level as detail is rather lost at the moment. Also their pricing policy is bias to looking after propriety formats. Might sally forth with another espial to the powers that be but get the feeling that might be better to write to the powers that want to be.

I am aware that Shonkymaps are free but what is the status of the other ones (Tasmap and Garmin excluded)?

Cheers

[photohiker]

Openstreetmap: http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

OpenStreetMap is open data, licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 licence (CC BY-SA).

You are free to copy, distribute, transmit and adapt our maps and data, as long as you credit OpenStreetMap and its contributors. If you alter or build upon our maps or data, you may distribute the result only under the same licence. The full legal code explains your rights and responsibilities.

OpenCycleMap uses the same license as it is a derivative product of the openstreetmap data. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/

Contours Australia: http://www.lizarddrinking.net/

Contours Australia is set of FREE transparent 5m contour maps that cover all of Australia only for the Garmin Mapping GPS.

Contours Australia is based on the NASA Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/srtm/ as probably is Google and the contours in OpenCycleMap. No idea regarding the Garmin products, could you post a Garmin screenshot of the Mt Riana area from your basecamp for comparison?

The Shuttle Radar Topography Mission (SRTM) obtained elevation data on a near-global scale to generate the most complete high-resolution digital topographic database of Earth. SRTM consisted of a specially modified radar system that flew onboard the Space Shuttle Endeavour during an 11-day mission in February of 2000.

[frenchy_84]

Also, if Tasmaps is wedded to the raster format then they should rescan the maps from the highest level of magnification at the highest sensible pixel rate. Old school resolution levels no longer apply given current GB memory storage and processor capable of churning through the data.

They have, its just not on theLIST as it doesn't make sense to have hi res on there. Each 1:25000 tile is approx 20mb geotiff.