TrailDesigns Cooking Systems

[ULWalkingPhil]

My two Trail Designs cooking Kits arrived from the states today:

I ordered a Evernew .9 Low non stick Titanium Pot with Lid. Weight 130 grams.
The Caldera Sidewinder Ti-Tri
and a Caldera Keg-GVP Stove System, the Caldera Keg is the Esbit Version, hence the GVP.

First test was with the Caldera Sidewinder Ti-Tri Kit using the supplied 12-10 stove, the tutorial video on trail designs website indicates the Titanium Cone supplied with this kit is shorter than the Classic Ti-Tri, so it will fit into the supplied pot, 2 titanium pegs are supplied that you insert into a couple of holes in the cone to lift the pot a fraction for use with Metho. The video shown was with a Evernew 1.3 litre pot which is slightly taller than my .9 litre pot. Got me wondering, maybe I will not need to use these titanium pegs to raise the pot slightly of the 12-10 stove, I hope so, I hate fiddling about with gear when I'm out in the bush. So my first test was with the Evernew Pot inserted into the cone without the pegs.
I filled the pot with 500 ml of tap water and 15 ml of Metho into the 12-10 stove. Got a boil in 10 minutes and 30 seconds using just on 15 ml of Metho.
2nd test I used the pegs and lifted the pot slightly higher, with 500 ml of water and 15 ml of metho, I could not get a boil, at 8 minutes and 20 seconds the 12-10 stove had ran out of fuel, the water was not far of boiling.
Next test I added 20 ml of Metho into the 12-10 stove and with 500 ml of water in the pot, pot sitting on the pegs as suggested on the video, I got a boil in 6 minutes and 45 seconds. flame lasted for 8 minutes with the 20 ml of Metho.
I than repeated the first test I done with the Pot fully inserted into the cone without the pegs: 500 ml of water, 15ml of Metho. Got a boil in 10 minutes and fuel lasted 12 minutes and 45 seconds before the flame went out.
Clearly the system is more efficient with the pot fully inserted into the Cone and not on the Pegs. Boil times was a little longer but fuel consumption was reduced.

I than ran a test with the Caldera Keg using Metho: 500ml water, 15ml Metho. Stove ran out of fuel before I could get a boil. Repeated the tests with 20ml of metho in the 12-10 stove and got a boil in 10 minutes, flame lasted 12 minutes and 45 seconds.

One final test, using the Caldera Keg, this time with Esbit fuel tablets and the supplied Gram Cracker stove.
500ml water, One Esbit fuel tablet. Water boiled in 8 minutes and 15 seconds. I still had enough of the Esbit Tablet left to take a further cup of water to just on the brink of boiling. Each Esbit Tablet is 14 grams.
To me, the Esbit Tablets are a more efficient fuel. I've got no fuel bottles to carry and the Gram Cracker is only 3 grams, compared to 16 grams for the 12-10 stove.

I find the Esbit Tablets are a more efficient fuel for me and lighter system particularly on longer trips than Metho or Gas.

Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Thu 26 Jul, 2012 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I few images taken of my Traildesigns Sidewinder cooking system including a Evernew .9 wide Non-stick titanium pot.

Attachments

Setup in Timber Mode with the Inferno upgrade

Inferno Upgrade inside the Sidewinder Cone

The Sidewinder System inc Inferno, All can be packed inside the Evernew Pot

Pot fully inserted in Cone

Titanium pegs used to raise pot for Metho Mode

Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Fri 27 Jul, 2012 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Traildesigns Caldera Keg Beer Can Stove

Attachments

Caldera Keg Cooking system with Esbit Burner

Ready to boil.

Caldera Caddy can be used as a cup and bowl

Packed up inside Caddy

Size packed compared to a Nalgene 1 litre bottle

Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Sun 29 Jul, 2012 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[Nuts]

Can I go now?
These are really good, I have the 900ml tall pot ti (pasta pot, evernew i think..) model and fit everything inc. drinks for a few days and metho for lunch. The go to $^%$ if it looks like being cold, easily 20+ mins down near zero. Ok up there though, simple, as light as it gets and compact. I know gas is lighter over time but I think a lot is in how you use it. The titanium versions make a contained fire possible at least or in areas where you can use twigs.
I have a fire kit. I did try wood and dont really think the kit is that necessary. You can just use a rock or a couple of larger sticks for the base. Something under is a good idea though. Enjoy!

[ULWalkingPhil]

I also purchased the Inferno Kit for the Sidewinder System. All Titanium.

With gas I was able to boil a cuppa using 5 grams of gas, but, the issue I had with gas, was the Canister. A full cannister is something like 357 grams, An empty Gas canister weighs something in the vicinity of 100 - 150 grams. On my last 7 day hike, I used less than 150 grams of Esbit Tablets for the week.
I know what you mean about gas being efficient, however I've found it heavy compared to other cooking kits, even my Titanium Gas Cooker is 61 grams. Compare that to my Esbit cooker at only 3 grams.

[Nuts]

I have been carrying 100ml nalgenes of metho, last 2/3 days each and they take up no pack space, always somewhere for them. Esbit does look efficient and wont 'leak' but its smelly around others and will taint food (even between plastic bags). Perhaps there is a recipe for an efficient home made esbit style tablet..

[ULWalkingPhil]

Maybe it's the brand of Metho I'm using, but I find the Esbit smells less than the Metho. My sister commentated on the smell coming from the Metho today, but didn't mention the Esbit. The Metho was the worst smell out of the two today. I carry my Esbit in there sealed individual packages inside a ziploc bag, separate from my pots.

[Franco]

I think that the "inefficient" part is the keg...
as a comparison with water at around 15c I get 500ml to boil in about 7:30 with about 14g of metho using a Ti full size cone and a 550ml pot .
(it then boils for another 2 minutes or so)
BTW, try using more fuel and then snuff the flame and recover the rest. Works better for me like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9j7pF3 ... feature=pl


Possibly the Esbit works better in your set up because of the narrower flame.
As for the smell , maybe I am used to it but I can hardly smell metho but can smell Esbit at a distance.
My metho from Coles or Bunnings.
Francohttp

[Drifting]

You're not cooking that cat, are you?

[Franco]

Cats,dogs , horses, what's the difference ?

That was Pip's last video clip. She died at 18.5. I still have her mom.

[forest]

Good stuff Phil
I've also been eyeing off that 900ml pot and Ti-Tri sidewinder with inferno. Nice looking system.

On thing I did think of was with your burn times using the pot raised and not raised.
You had a shorter boil time raised but it used more fuel. To me that would mean it is burning hotter (Hence shorter boil).
The less fuel when lowered right down (in Esbit mode) while more effiencent on metho took longer to boil ??
Thats fine if it's not cold and windy but possibly in adverse weather the raised pot is the better option as it will get to the boil quicker and not be effected by the cold wind more ??

You will have to test how the 900ml pot goes with Esbit. I'd be interested to know if the wider pot compared to the keg is more effiecient. I would nearly think it would have to be as it's a wider base for the flame and heat to spread.

Oh yeh, nearly forgot.... Pic's or it didn't happen

The go to $^%$ if it looks like being cold, easily 20+ mins down near zero

Nuts what cone system do you have ??

I've used mine that many times sub zero and it's never let me down yet ?? One thing I will say is I have had no real noticable difference with the fosters caldera cone with metho anywhere.
I even boiled up a coffee on the top of Conical hill, Routeburn track in NZ @ dawn in sub zero gail winds. I think I boiled 400ml of icemelt water with 20ml of kiwi metho.
That was as good a test as I required to know this is a good system.

[Nuts]

Hiya Forest, ah, just the tall pot version, ie not sidewinder. The base is around 90ml wide. Perhaps it is the pot taking the heat? I imagine the keg would transfer heat asap and be More efficient... Never really measured anything just noticed the time lag. I don't mind waiting but it does also take more fuel (noticed not measured). I imagine it would be usable in the minuses just that as the times blow out, gas seems easier.

Its a wonder your stove didn't melt Phil, iv'e never tried without pegs. The pegs can be a hassle, especially to adjust (move to the other holes) while the stove is going.

[forest]

Hiya Forest, ah, just the tall pot version, ie not sidewinder. The base is around 90ml wide. Perhaps it is the pot taking the heat? I imagine the keg would transfer heat asap and be More efficient... Never really measured anything just noticed the time lag. I don't mind waiting but it does also take more fuel (noticed not measured). I imagine it would be usable in the minuses just that as the times blow out, gas seems easier.

Ah that makes sense Nuts. I think the pot sucks a bit of heat if it's exposed and not fully down in the cone. Titanium pots transfer heat very quickly though, can be good and bad. You must have the same pot I just sold with my bushbuddy. Do you have the ULC Ti-Tri ??. I recently asked that Rand (Trail Designs) about the taller pots vs the wide squat pots as I was considering keeping the 1.0 pasta pot for a ULC with better tri fuel usage in the wind. His response to my email below.

"so....it looks like the first most fundamental question is a ULC vs Sidewinder question. Generally speaking, the Sidewinder is the better approach from two perspectives. First, more of the pot sits down inside the cone for alcohol/esbit mode....thereby heating up the sides.....with the ULC, a lot of the pot is outside the cone and consequently that system in alcohol/esbit is less efficient. Second, in wood mode only the bottom of the pot is heated so the ULC is not as bad. However, since the pots the ULC supports are typically smaller in diameter, they don't present as wide a "face" to the fire and are a bit slower. All that said, and all things equal, the Evernew 600ml or 900ml Sidewinder would be the better choice."

Any of the trail designs sets are great in my eyes. Rand is very quick to respond and I've had great service from them in the past.
I'm a big fan of anything that packs into the pot as it takes up less pack space.
Gees I can see me dropping the hammer on a 900ml Ti-Tri myself..... Damn this gear addiction....

[Dale]

I have a sidewinder Ti Tri on the way from Trail Designs fitted to my 900ml Evernew wide pot. There is a review of the system in Issue 1 of Trail Groove

I second the great customer service from Trail Designs. I had ordered the Classic Ti Tri unaware of the convenience of the sidewinder for packing. Russ contacted me before shipping to give me the Sidewinder option which I took. Looking forward to giving it a whirl.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I've got some pic's I'm posting shortly.

No, Pot's not melted thus far Nut's. Do you think having the pot down all the way into the cone, could cause problems with the pot. I think your spot on forest with the pot being a bit lower causing the Metho stove to not burn as hot which is increasing the burn time. I don't mind waiting the extra few minutes for a boil. I just hope there's no potential damage to the pot having it a bit lower into the flame. Have not tried the Sidewinder with Esbit Tablets thus far. I been saving the Esbit's for out in the field. But I will try a test burn shortly with a esbit tablet in my sidewinder, as I'm curious on how the kit will perform with a Esbit tablet. I think it will be a hit.

[Nuts]

No, just the stove itself Phil, being aluminium. I'm sure the pot will be fine.
The sidewinder had just come available when i bought mine (perhaps its smaller than 900ml.. the smaller pasta pot it is). I went for the tall pot more for compactness. It was an exercise in reducing weight (including bulk and making a smaller (40L) pack do for a week or so). Sidewinder would be more efficient no doubt but the shield takes up 'no' room in a taller pot. It really is compact, everything in the space that was a cup..
Sidewinder hands down for two or more but I was after a solo stove. I have seen people using (and happy with) the sidewinder and larger pot in the snow so that would be a bonus. I did do colder weather trip last winter with mine and it was useable, moreso when I warmed the metho (it seemed) and inside out of the wind. One bonus was sticking the pot on the fire in the hut, no fuel

[ULWalkingPhil]

A couple of images showing the Suppled stoves with the Sidewinder System.

The Metho Stove is known as a 12-10 Metho Stove. Made out of soft drink cans, weight of stove is 16 grams.

The Gram Cracker used for Esbit fuel tablets is 3 grams and the supplied floor for protecting the ground is 3 grams.

Attachments

Traildesigns 12-10 stove

Traildesigns Gram Cracker stove

[ULWalkingPhil]

Here's a image with the Sidewinder Cones and Gram Cracker Stove packed in the Evernew Stove. A Tyvek pouch is supplied for the Titanium Cones, the ends of the tyvek storage pouch is folded in on the ends so to not scratch inside your pot. If you order this kit with the Evernew 1.3 litre pot, the 12-10 stove will fit into the pot. The .9 litre pot I have here is not high enough to fit the 12-10 stove. I was aware of this before I ordered. Thought long and hard on which pot to purchase in the end I went for the .9 litre pot, as 1.3 is way to big for me. Even .9 is a tad to large. The kit comes with a small container made of plastic to store the 12-10 stove into, does not take up much pack space. There's also a metal grate supplied with the Inferno kit that goes in the bottom of the inferno cone to allow for air circulation under the fire. I've forgotten to add this into the image below, but it's comes with a Tyvek sleeve and sits on the bottom inside the pot for storage. It's a great system. Easy to pack and easy to setup.

Attachments

Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Fri 27 Jul, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[ULWalkingPhil]

No, just the stove itself Phil, being aluminium. I'm sure the pot will be fine.
The sidewinder had just come available when i bought mine (perhaps its smaller than 900ml.. the smaller pasta pot it is). I went for the tall pot more for compactness. It was an exercise in reducing weight (including bulk and making a smaller (40L) pack do for a week or so). Sidewinder would be more efficient no doubt but the shield takes up 'no' room in a taller pot. It really is compact, everything in the space that was a cup..
Sidewinder hands down for two or more but I was after a solo stove. I have seen people using (and happy with) the sidewinder and larger pot in the snow so that would be a bonus. I did do colder weather trip last winter with mine and it was useable, moreso when I warmed the metho (it seemed) and inside out of the wind. One bonus was sticking the pot on the fire in the hut, no fuel

Ok, I'll keep a close eye on the stove, So far i've put it to the test for the past day, All appears to be fine, but look close to the image of the 12-10 stove I posted above and you can see some marks from the heat. The stove feels very sturdy which is a surprise. I figured being made out of Soft Drink cans it would be a bit fragile. This is not the case, I still wouldn't jump up and down on it.

The Gram Cracker Esbit stove I believe is made of Titanium.

Also scroll up to the top, I've added images of both my cooking system's. In my 2nd and 3rd post above.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Of the two kits so far, I"m leaning more towards the Sidewinder Cooking system with the Evernew Pot.

I like it more because It's made of Titanium, The whole system is Titanium even the Gram Cracker stove. It's lightweight and strong.
A lot easier to pack away, that's after a few attempts, At first I found it a bit difficult to get the cones back into the supplied tyvek sleeve for storage inside the pot, the easiest method I've found after some practise is to utilise the Titanium Floor of the Inferno Option. Roll it up than slide into pouch followed by the cone for the Inferno (if you plan on using timber as fuel, otherwise you can leave the inferno cone at home) than follow with the Sidewinder Cone. Being made of Titanium i've found it very easy to roll up into a small cylinder into the tyvek sleeve.

In regards to the Traildesigns Caldera Keg beer can stove, the supplied Cone is made of Aluminium and not Titanium, there is a small part that is made of titanium to increase the strength of the sliding sleeve to connect the two ends together. If only this cone was made of Titanium it would be a much better system in my opinion. The cone is not as easy to roll as the Sidewinder cone, and can very quickly go out of shape. Titanium is much better, and titanium can withstand a lot more heat. The system does work well. It's very light in weight. The supplied Caddy is made of food grade plastic and can handle boiling water, which makes a great cup and bowl. The supplied Forsters beer can is huge, almost 750 ml capacity. I've never seen beer can's this big before. If only the beer was still inside. Buggers must have drank it. First few boils, I could smell the beer.
One other slight concern I had with the Beer Can was it's durability, but that's really not a concern, traildesigns have done a wonderful job in strengthening the can by adding ridges to the can. One in particular is about half way up the can is larger than the other ridges, this is where the cone sits into the beer can and stops it from falling all the way through. The ridges have added some strength to the can. Also I'm concerned with the aluminium in the Can it's self, that it don't leach out into the boiled water.

Overall both cooking systems are great, but at this stage my favourite will have to be the Sidewinder system. But I do prefer the Caddy on the Cadera Keg system as it's a multi use system saving weight. Can be used to store cooking kit and both as a bowl and cup.

[ULWalkingPhil]

For those interested I've included weights for each of the individual items supplied with the Cooking Kits.

Sidewinder Cooking system:
Evernew Titanium .9 Pot inc Lid: 128 grams
Stuff sack for Evernew Pot: 14 g
Sidewinder titanium cone: 34 g
2x Titanium Pegs: 12 g
Traildesigns Inferno Option inc floor: 64 g
12-10 stove: 15 g
Gram Cracker stove: 3 g
Total Weight in Esbit cooking mode: 182 g
Total Weight in Metho cooking mode: 206 g
Total Weight in Timber cooking mode with Inferno and floor & metal grate: 252 g
Total Weight in Timber mode without the inferno kit: 188 g
Total Weight in all 3 cooking mode's included with the inferno option, metho and esbit cooker: 276 g

Traildesigns Caldera Keg
Caldera Keg cone: 32 g
Fosters beer can pot: 36 g
Pot cosy: 8 g
Caldera Keg caddy: 77 g
Gram Cracker: 3 g
Gram Cracker floor: 3 g
Gram Cracker storage container: 9 g
Caldera Keg stuff sack: 6 g
Total Weight: 174 g

Last edited by ULWalkingPhil on Fri 27 Jul, 2012 6:44 pm, edited 11 times in total.

[Bluegum Mic]

Hey Phil

Are you planning on keeping both sets. If you choose to sell the Keg-F system let me know as ill take it off your hands. I've been thinking about getting one for a while

[ULWalkingPhil]

Hey Phil

Are you planning on keeping both sets. If you choose to sell the Keg-F system let me know as ill take it off your hands. I've been thinking about getting one for a while

Sorry Bluegum Mic, I'm keeping both kits.

[Bluegum Mic]

No sweat Phil. Just thought id ask before I pull the trigger. It always seems to happen..I order something then the following week one pops up in the market square.

[forest]

I than ran a test with the Caldera Keg using Metho: 500ml water, 15ml Metho. Stove ran out of fuel before I could get a boil. Repeated the tests with 20ml of metho in the 12-10 stove and got a boil in 10 minutes, flame lasted 12 minutes and 45 seconds.

I couldn't help but think that the Caldera Keg-GVP Stove System is different from my Alcohol Keg System. Your cone just looks shorter but I could be wrong there.
It would make sense though if the keg sits on a lower cone for a dedicated Esbit Keg System like yours though for maximium efficiency with it's fuel or choice. After all your Ti-Tri Sidewinder has a different height adjustment for esbit vs alcohol with the alcohol mode sitting the pot a little higher.

On the alky keg set I have the Keg bottom sits approx. 80mm above the bottom of the cone when nesled in.
I did heaps of playing with mine a while back boiling water with ice cubes in it prior to going over to NZ but I just couldn't remember my boil time. I do recall I figured out on 17.5ml of metho for just the right amount for the water to boil.

Just had another play now with 500ml of tap water and 17.5ml of metho (in the garage so no wind). Let the stove ignite properly for about 20sec after first flame then dropped the pot/cone on it with the lid on the keg (very important).
Water had a full on rolling boil (shaking the Keg LOL) in 6:04 and the 12-10 stove flamed out @ 6:46.
I had bubbles starting to rise within about 4 minutes but no a proper rolling boil.

If you do want to run extra fuel in the 12-10 stove like Franco suggested I have found one of those baby panadol syringes works a treat for sucking out the unused metho. Only weighs about 2g too.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I ran another test with my Sidewinder cooking kit using Esbit tablet tonight.

With the Evernew pot fully inserted into the sidewinder cone I achieved a boil time of 10 minutes and 30 seconds for 500 ml of tap water.

I blown out the esbit tablet as soon the water came to a rolling boil and weighed the esbit tablet and recorded a weight of 3 grams, therefore to boil 500ml of water in good conditions (no wind) I used 11 grams in weight of fuel using Esbit Tablets.

Ran another test with 20ml Metho and the 12-10 stove.
With pot fully inserted in cone, boiled 500ml tap water in 10:15
Burn time with 20ml metho, 13.30
20ml metho weighed 14g

One last test with the pot on the titanium pegs in Metho mode.
Boiled 500ml in 6:45
Burn time with 20ml metho 7:00

These figures are in doors. I don't know if there's a lot of difference in windy conditions with the cone.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I than ran a test with the Caldera Keg using Metho: 500ml water, 15ml Metho. Stove ran out of fuel before I could get a boil. Repeated the tests with 20ml of metho in the 12-10 stove and got a boil in 10 minutes, flame lasted 12 minutes and 45 seconds.

I couldn't help but think that the Caldera Keg-GVP Stove System is different from my Alcohol Keg System. Your cone just looks shorter but I could be wrong there.
It would make sense though if the keg sits on a lower cone for a dedicated Esbit Keg System like yours though for maximium efficiency with it's fuel or choice. After all your Ti-Tri Sidewinder has a different height adjustment for esbit vs alcohol with the alcohol mode sitting the pot a little higher.

On the alky keg set I have the Keg bottom sits approx. 80mm above the bottom of the cone when nesled in.
I did heaps of playing with mine a while back boiling water with ice cubes in it prior to going over to NZ but I just couldn't remember my boil time. I do recall I figured out on 17.5ml of metho for just the right amount for the water to boil.

Just had another play now with 500ml of tap water and 17.5ml of metho (in the garage so no wind). Let the stove ignite properly for about 20sec after first flame then dropped the pot/cone on it with the lid on the keg (very important).
Water had a full on rolling boil (shaking the Keg LOL) in 6:04 and the 12-10 stove flamed out @ 6:46.
I had bubbles starting to rise within about 4 minutes but no a proper rolling boil.

If you do want to run extra fuel in the 12-10 stove like Franco suggested I have found one of those baby panadol syringes works a treat for sucking out the unused metho. Only weighs about 2g too.

Got my Caldera Keg Kit out today, and did a video report. Will upload in the next day.

My Keg inserted in the Cone is 5cm off ground level.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I have uploaded a Video Review on my Caldera Keg Cooking Kit on to the 3rd post above.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Bit of an update on my cooking system.

The hardest decision for me now is deciding which cooking system to take, I can't say I prefer one of the other, they both work great.

Both systems have there disadvantages and advantages over the other, in the end it levels out.

Just a few minor issues with the Beer Can Stove setup. the Aluminium Cone, It works well. Just a pain to pack up. Being Aluminium, more care is required over Titanium. Titanium Cone on the Sidewinder cooking system is so much more durable and easier to pack. It does not go out of shape as easily as the Aluminium Cone on the Beer can stove kit.

I contacted Traildesigns and asked if they could make a Titanium Cone for my Beer Can Cooking Kit. Which they obliged with, no questions asked. The titanium Cone turned up in the post a couple weeks back. It's lighter and more durable and a lot easier to roll and pack away. I ordered the Keg F cone, as the cone suppled with the Esbit Beer Can stove kit is slightly lower than the Cone supplied with the Keg F kit. Great Cone, but one problem, it does not work. The beer Can Pot falls straight through the cone. It does not sit on the lip. I think the Titanium Cone might be a little to big for the Beer Can. I've contacted Traildesigns, there looking into it for me.

The Gram Cracker Stove at 3 grams is a hit, Very efficient. But just a few little issues that I was not happy with. Esbit Tablets leave some hard residue behind on the stove, which is difficult to remove, Very hard to get the stove apart, It's not a major problem, just leave the stove intact.
I thought I might see if I can make my own Esbit Stove, A little more sturdy and easier to clean, I saw a design on a Esbit Stove online with plans. Ordered some Titanium sheet from the US.

My first attempt turned out well.

I'll post some images shortly.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Images as promised

The titanium cone works perfectly with the Rubber band strap supplied with the Keg cooking kits, however with the band attached to the Pot the Caddy cannot be used for storage.

Attachments

Titanium Cone for Keg F.jpg (109.1 KiB) Viewed 6424 times