Boots - heels moving - hence blisters

[frank_in_oz]

Ok, I have had these Scarpa boots for three long trips and I am STILL getting blisters on my heels.

I think it is because my heel does not fit into the boot correctly and there is movement as I walk,hence creating friction and therefore blisters....

Theoretically the boots are the correct size. There is plenty of toe room and width.

I have tried the following:
- wear them at every chance to "break them in" - like how long will this take!!!
- various lacing techniques to try and keep my heels in place and stop them moving
- I have had them checked out by an expert in fitting shoes for older people AND by an orthotist. Both agree the boots are the correct size
- I have tried heel grips and they lasted one hr before curling up and dying (and my heel still slipped)
- swearing and moaning (with little success)
- I did replace the innersole (the hard cardboard ones they come with) with softer "bouncier" ones. This could possibly have changed the footbed shape.

I have NOT tried:
- 2 socks i.e one thick and thin one
- throwing them away and starting again (the WERE expensive and have only done 3 trips)

We are heading off on the South Coast Track in about 3 weeks so I really want to try and solve this problem. I can, of course tape up my heels etc each day and protect them that way but it is really a fall back position.

Any one have any other ideas?

[johnw]

Hi Frank,

I think it is because my heel does not fit into the boot correctly and there is movement as I walk,hence creating friction and therefore blisters....

Definitely sounds right.

Theoretically the boots are the correct size. There is plenty of toe room and width.

My understanding is that feet swell with heat and activity, so the boots might be the correct size when cold but may not be after prolonged walking. Advice I've read is always get 1/2 to a size larger than what appears to be correct. That's what I've been doing and have usually only had problems with boots that were too small.

I have NOT tried:
- 2 socks i.e one thick and thin one
- throwing them away and starting again (the WERE expensive and have only done 3 trips)

I've been doing this for years and rarely have problems with blisters now. I use a thin coolmax liner (very slippery) under thicker socks. It may be worth a try before ditching the boots. Although unfortunately it sounds like you may have to consider that if nothing else works . I've been considering Scarpa boots myself so will have to watch the fitting carefully if I do.

A thought. Could a bootmaker somehow stretch/soften the heel area?

[jshard01]

I cannot recommend this product highly enough for blister prevention. If you have an exisitng blister, you can also cover it in this stuff and it stops the problem of further rubbing.

http://www.bodyglide.com/

It is also great for any sort of chaffing due to damp clothes or sweaty conditions.

regards,
Josh

[scockburn]

Hi Frank, I had similar problem. Sorted it like johnw with liner sock and thicker sock on outer. I also have had recommended the use of the foot shaped sock( not the bamboo fabric) as the liner. I also put in a new inner sole that added volume. You certainly do not want to start off with taping.When I went back to the shop, the fitter laced up the boots as normal but on the top two hooks , he went from the third top hook to the top hook then finished off on the second top hook. It tended to bring the ankle support in closer and I did get some slight relief doing this as well. Worth a try if you have not already done this.Good luck with this. Steve C

[Chris]

Frank,
30+ years ago someone advised me to wear thickish looped socks (not sure what they are really called) inside out, i.e. with the loose loops against my skin, as well as my usual wool outer socks. Did quite a lot of walking this way in 2 successive pairs of boots, and have never had a blister since. I'm sure there are now more modern materials which will do as well or better, but I believe the double layer is well worth trying. Good luck!

[ollster]

Sorry if I missed it - what sort of socks are you using?

I've got Scarpas too (Treks, I think). I find thick-ish, tighter fitting socks mean that I can go for days without even thinking about taping hotspots. I use Wigwam Hiker (I think that's what they're called now, was Ultimax) socks and they are awesome. Fit is excellent, and they don't deform when wet.

Worst thing I have found is poor fitting socks, or socks that deform when wet. This almost always gives me blisters. I absolutely loathe "Explorers", as they are a poor fit for anyone, basically a foot shaped bag. Wearing two socks has never helped me, it's just 2x the sock movement.

[EDIT] another thing I do is once I loop the laces above the top lugs, I then lace the laces around the second-from-the-top lug and then tie them. I think it locks the ankle area a bit better, but I could just be kidding myself.

[dee_legg]

What model Scarpas are they?

[SueOfTheSouth]

I bought Scarpa boots several years ago and they gave me terrible blisters on the heels. They were fitted by so called experts in the shop. With the $$$ cost of them I persevered with them for quite a while but always ended up with bad blisters. In fact worse than that they affected my achilles tendon badly which sent me for several sessions with a physio. In the end I ditched them and went for a lighter, cheaper boot, the good old Blundstone which I am extremely happy with. I would never never ever buy Scarpas again.

[Darren]

G'Day
My personal choice is Injinji toe sox with mid weight merino sox over the top. Bit weird at first but totally eliminated toe blisters (not you prob i know) As far as boots go i use Asolo 525 (i think) they are super comfortable straight out of the box. I believe that its 2009, surely we could expect to buy good quality footwear that is comfortable and has a Short break in time. They also have lace locks at the base of the ankle so you can vary the tightness on your foot. There are probably many other boots with this feature.
Might be worth a look for next time
Hope that helps
Darren

[Darren]

One more thing you could try.
What i used to do with motorcross boots was put tem on on a saturday morning, stand in a bucket of water then wear them all day untill they dried. You said you have worn them on a few walks, Have you got them wet yet?
Darren

[tastrax]

I am a Scarpa user from way back - had similar problems but with two pairs of socks I have no worries. Thin ones first, then thick ones - I even use old cheapy explorers for the second pair.

[Nuts]

You have those liners (injinji) dont you Frank?
If they dont work try:

http://www.ccoutdoorstore.com/zamberlan ... boots.html

[walkinTas]

Ok, I have had these Scarpa boots for three long trips and I am STILL getting blisters on my heels. I think it is because my heel does not fit into the boot correctly and there is movement as I walk,hence creating friction and therefore blisters....

I am really fussy about one thing when I buy boots. They have to fit perfectly. When it comes time to buy boots I visit lots of shops and try lots of boots on. I reject lots of boots because they are too narrow and squeeze the bridge of my feet which make them ache when I walk. I need a fairly broad boot, I like arch support, a waterproof tongue, brass eyes, and ankle protection, but fit is the top consideration.

I broke my left ankle when I was only 23, and since then I can't bend the left foot up towards the shin to form an angle less than 90º (can't bend the knee over the foot without lifting the heel). This means when I walk up any gradient at all the left heel is always off the ground. I must have a boot that holds tight on the heel.

I have tried the following: - wear them at every chance to "break them in" - like how long will this take!!!

I don't believe in "breaking-in" boots. If they don't fit and aren't comfortable in the shop then IMO they never will fit or be comfortable. The more you use boots the more they loose their shape and the less they hold/support your foot. When they aren't providing enough support any more then you throw them away and buy a new pair.

I wear thick merino socks. I haven't tried wearing liner socks, but that might help. I haven't tried toe socks either, but they might also be helpful and stop my toes rubbing each other (and doing other things that toes just shouldn't do).

My current pair of boots are Aussie made Rossi boots. I bought they because they fitted - perfectly.

[frank_in_oz]

Wow,
Many thanks to everyone for their excellent input and suggestions. There are just too many individual comments to reply to each person. I will make an attempt to summarise.

1) Double socks
A common theme, looks like it is well worth the try. My wife has done this before and it seemed to work for her.

2) Wetting the boots etc - when I have worn them on the last three trips they have been through snow, deep water etc. They have been thoroughly wet for days. I THOUGHT they would mould into the correct shape following this hammering but they have not. I almost feel they have shrunk....

3)

You have those liners (injinji) dont you Frank?

I have not tried them BUT my wife has and has been rapped. Here main issue was toe blisters (her little toes curl under the next toe rubbing causing blisters) She has worn them on a few trips now with great success.

4) Boot model - sorry don't know. They are Gore-Tex lined fabric (not leather)

5) Lacing - I will try a couple of different methods

6) Stretching boot - I think the heel issue is that my heel is narrow for the available space so stretching won't hepl there. I will gety the boots stretched across the foot part just to give a bit more space when my foot swells.

7) Socks - I don't know the brand BUT they are very high quality , foot shaped socks from MD

Many thanks to everyone. I will follow up after trying the double socks and maybe snagging a pair of injinji socks as well.

I have under 3 weeks to get this fixed or I might resort to a pair of volleys!!! ( that have been successfully worn by many much more experienced and adventurous bushwalkers than I will ever be !!)

Frank

[Penguin]

At the other end of the foot, I get blisters under my big toes. Apprantly this is from flat feet and me clenching my toe to compensate.

I and going to try orthotics for the flat feet to see if I can stopt this, but not til AFTER my next big walk.

My wife also has very narrow heels and suffers alot of heel blisters as a result. We have tried different shes/boots, multiple sock combinations etc. The only solution that has worked so far is to tape her heels liberally with physio tape before we head off. This has not eliminated the blisters but has reduced them dramatically.

I would give teh taping a try as a last resort.

[Robbo]

I personally rarely suffer from blisters. My research and talks with many people re this over the years has lead me to the following understanding. Whether this is correct or not, I can not be sure but it may be of benefit for those who suffer from such things.

1/. Everyone's feet moves inside their boots/shoes. So there is no way to lace up your boots to eliminate movement.
2/. Blisters can be caused by from the pressure of carrying large weights.
3/. Blisters are more often caused by the rubbing of boots/shoes against some parts of the foot or toes causing heat to build up and hence blistering.
4/. Trying to minimise the effect of this rubbing by keeping the temperature down would be the best way of dealing with the problem.

Possible solutions:
Wear inner socks which will allow for more movement between shoe and foot.
Tape the area known to blister before the walk begins - use whatever is best for you, but I have found that silver duct tape - the wide shinny stuff - as a final cover before putting on socks has noticeably slowed down the formation of the blisters on those who I am walking with. These areas should be checked and changed at regular intervals during each day of the walk, but always making sure the foot is allowed to move as freely as is practicable with the blistered area covered with the slippery surface of something like duct tape.

TR

[jules21]

i have the opposite problem with my new Dachstein boots - toe bang.

the size up had heel slip and i know that's terminal so i bought the size down, which felt great in the shop. sadly, coming down steep hills, my toes disagree. lacing them up tightly helps a bit.

i'm not sure what to do about that.

[lexharris]

I bought a new pair of Scarpa SLs a bit over a year ago and was surprised to get heel blisters straight away. My previous Scarpas (can't remember the model name but the predecessor to the current SL) never gave a moment's trouble in over 15 years. Never had any blister or foot problem with those boots from day 1.

The blisters with the new SLs persisted for the first few walks (I just used adhesive tape to control them, no big deal), but a year or so down the track I don't get them any more.

Looking closely at the design of my old Scarpas vs new ones it appears changes have been made to the stitching and padding design around the heel area, and it seems to me that they are also using a slightly different last shape as well. Unfortunately none of these changes seem to agree with my foot shape and apart from the heel blisters I've also had pressure points on the raised parts of my ankles which sometimes got quite annoying.

Anyway all of this has settled with use. I do not agree with the the previous comments about boots not breaking in - in my experience they certainly do. I always use 2 pairs of socks, a thin inner and a thick outer. I find that the thin inner pair reduces the likelihood of chafing problems.

I also have a rather wide foot which means my toes tend to get squeezed in normal boot fittings with normal lacing. To counter this I use a two stage lacing technique. I lace the boots normally through the first 3 pairs of loops, but leave the laces quite loose so the toe of the boot is free to spread with my wide foot. I then tie a reef knot after the 3rd pair of loops and lace the boot normally to the top. This way I can pull the laces tight to get a snug fit around my instep and ankle, while the toe area remains loose and free to spread to accommodate my wide foot.

[bluewombat]

I wrote an article for the Paddy Pallin club magazine on blisters quite a few years ago. Essentially blisters boil down to friction and moisture. Friction is reduced by good fitting boots (most Australians wear their shoes a half size too small), appropriate lacing techniques (like those mentioned above), thin undersocks and where appropriate an extra friction reduction layer like tape (some tape however sheds its adhesive which then clogs up the heel of your socks, not desirable). Boot fit is a big issue for some people, particularly those with narrow and/or bony heels, if you struggle with boot fit you are probably better off with a composite boot rather than an all leather one, as they are a little more adjustable and forgiving.

Moisture reduction is really a function of wicking sweat away from the foot as quickly as possible, so moisture wicking socks or sock liners. Good sock choice is important. If you have really sweaty feet there are topical products available from the pharmacy for reducing perspiration but these would rarely be necessary. There is of course a much bigger risk of getting wet feet in Tassie from external sources

If you do develop a blister the best treatment by far is a hydrocolloid stick on pad. These can be bought most pharmacies in a variety of sizes and will stay in place for days. I keep a few different sizes in my walking first aid kit. Just whack them on over the blister, if the blister has shredded a bit of antiseptic, like povidine ointment, first is a good idea.

bw

[Son of a Beach]

I wrote an article for the Paddy Pallin club magazine on blisters quite a few years ago. Essentially blisters boil down to friction and moisture. Friction is reduced by good fitting boots (most Australians wear their shoes a half size too small), appropriate lacing techniques (like those mentioned above), thin undersocks and where appropriate an extra friction reduction layer like tape (some tape however sheds its adhesive which then clogs up the heel of your socks, not desirable). Boot fit is a big issue for some people, particularly those with narrow and/or bony heels, if you struggle with boot fit you are probably better off with a composite boot rather than an all leather one, as they are a little more adjustable and forgiving.

Moisture reduction is really a function of wicking sweat away from the foot as quickly as possible, so moisture wicking socks or sock liners. Good sock choice is important. If you have really sweaty feet there are topical products available from the pharmacy for reducing perspiration but these would rarely be necessary. There is of course a much bigger risk of getting wet feet in Tassie from external sources

If you do develop a blister the best treatment by far is a hydrocolloid stick on pad. These can be bought most pharmacies in a variety of sizes and will stay in place for days. I keep a few different sizes in my walking first aid kit. Just whack them on over the blister, if the blister has shredded a bit of antiseptic, like povidine ointment, first is a good idea.

bw

Any problems if I copy, edit, and add this to the Wiki? It's a good concise summary of everything you need to know about blisters, and an excellent candidate for the wiki.

[bluewombat]

Go ahead Nik
bw

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks... 'tis done.