Pack as bivy

[Kinsayder]

I noticed a website recently that advocated the use of a short sleeping mat (like a 119cm XTherm) with use of a hiking pack for the legs as a type of bivy. Has anybody tried this? Is it comfortable, practical and suitable for alpine conditions?

[Hallu]

What do you mean exactly ? You sleep without a sleeping bag and just use your empty pack instead ? Or do you mean using the pack to elevate your legs ? The latter would be dangerous in alpine conditions (well with the former you'd freeze anyway...) since it would remove the blood from your legs. You sleep like that when your leg is broken to prevent the swelling, I'm not sure it would be suitable for hiking...

[Strider]

Yeah there is certainly a difference between putting an empty pack under your legs for insulation, and getting inside the pack and using it as a bivy. I would suspect you are thinking of the former, which is quite commonly adopted but I prefer a full length mat myself.

[Kinsayder]

What do you mean exactly ? You sleep without a sleeping bag and just use your empty pack instead ? Or do you mean using the pack to elevate your legs ? The latter would be dangerous in alpine conditions (well with the former you'd freeze anyway...) since it would remove the blood from your legs. You sleep like that when your leg is broken to prevent the swelling, I'm not sure it would be suitable for hiking...

Yeah there is certainly a difference between putting an empty pack under your legs for insulation, and getting inside the pack and using it as a bivy. I would suspect you are thinking of the former, which is quite commonly adopted but I prefer a full length mat myself.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. You lay down the short mat, then the (emptied) pack, end to end on the ground/snow, then the sleeping bag is laid atop the mat but the bottom (foot) of the bag is placed inside the bag. Then you hop in (I hope this makes sense)!

I think it seems quite practical but I'm not entirely convinced. I think all in all, it would save only about 100g of XTherm.

[Strider]

Exactly, and a saving of 100g is not worth sacrificing a good nights sleep over IMO.

[Kinsayder]

Exactly, and a saving of 100g is not worth sacrificing a good nights sleep over IMO.

I completely hear where you're coming from. I doubt it's worth it. I think I was more interested in a person who might have tried it before and -possibly- said that it's the greatest thing of all time and all who do not submit to the divine power of the half-mat-half-pack-bivy system are infidels and must be punished. Or something...

[quicky]

I tried it once with my Sea To Summit Mountain Expedition pack. http://www.wildequipment.com.au/backpack_detail.php?Code=WEMOUNT. It is made with that option as a 'just in case' feature...so I thought I'd give it a go at Feathertop some years ago.

I slept on a 3/4 mat, with my legs inside the bag. When fully open, the bag came up to my belly, so it's pretty long, and worked well. It squashed the down a little, but I was toasty warm and comfy.

It was fun to try, but have absolutely no need to do this again....that's if I ever take that pack again.

[Hallu]

Yeah but emptying a 70 L backpack can be quite long if every single pocket is full. What could be useful though is a backpack designed to have specific pockets for specific sleeping bags/mats/tents, and then sell a package with all 4, since most of the companies like macpac sell all those things anyway. It's quite painful to search all the necessary items (although after a while I guess it becomes fun for some people), why not sell a 70 L bag including everything needed from sleeping back/tent/mat/pillow to stove/cutlery/bladder and even rain gear. I don't think I've ever seen such a creature. Have you ?

[Strider]

Yeah but emptying a 70 L backpack can be quite long if every single pocket is full.

I don't know about you but I need to pretty much empty mine anyway to get out tent, cooking gear, dry clothes and sleeping kit.

What could be useful though is a backpack designed to have specific pockets for specific sleeping bags/mats/tents, and then sell a package with all 4, since most of the companies like macpac sell all those things anyway. It's quite painful to search all the necessary items (although after a while I guess it becomes fun for some people), why not sell a 70 L bag including everything needed from sleeping back/tent/mat/pillow to stove/cutlery/bladder and even rain gear. I don't think I've ever seen such a creature. Have you ?

The problem here is everyone has different purposes, and most (if not all) are not interested in buying all their gear from one manufacturer.

[Moondog55]

I have of course used this method once or three times, it really helps to increase warmth and keep the bottom of the bag dry in a wet tent but the biggest problem I have is my size 13 feet; very few rucksacks are big enough to allow me to get my feet in and for an emergency mountain bivvie where I would be keeping my boots on ( albeit with loosened laces ) the problem is even worse.
Mind you I have the same problem with almost all commercial bivvie sacs, which is why I still have my MD "Foxhole" and even that is a touch on the small side at the feet

[forest]

I only own short mats. I always use my pack as under feet insulation and it doesn't seem to effect the way I sleep. Each to there own I guess. If I can save a 100g on a mat and use insulation I'm already carriying. ie; pack and foam backpanel I'll do it. I know, I know each to there own but I'm a gram counter and it's what we do

There would be a few variables to putting your feet/bag actually inside the pack though. If it's a down bag and your pack is reasonably waterproof you might end up wetting out the foot end of the bag from condensation if it's humid.

[taswegian]

When I'd venture off for a weekend in my young days I'd just take my pack and a sleeping bag and a mat (thin sheepskin) and really enjoyed myself.
Spent many weekends roaming The Walls area.
I had a special long liner sewn in the pack that would cover my full length if needed.
Comfort was never an issue.

Billy & cooking gear would be weighed down at night to stop them blowing away, but more so to keep inquisitive quolls & Devils at bay.
Obviously one can be up and away quickly

So I say it can be done if you want to or need to.
It has it's advantages.