Snake bites

[Lindsay]

I understand that the use of a setopress bandage with markings to indicate the correct tension has overcome the main problem with applying a PIB, getting the tension right.

[geoskid]

Well handled Warren, I'm glad you're OK.

[jackhinde]

if the paramedics removed your bandage and replaced it they placed you in a great danger. it unfortunately all to often i hear similar stories of inept tratment regarding snake bite. as for the doctors data, pffff.

[maddog]

... as for the doctors data, pffff.

You would not be interested in ointment then?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-27/a ... nt/2772856
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/201 ... 254643.htm

Cheers

[Onestepmore]

We carry a couple of these with us when walking, for the possibility of a snake bite, and for sprained ankles etc, or securing a padded gauze bandage. I also carry a roll of elastoplast. After all the technical info here it's probably the wrong thing to use!

Vet Wrap/Co-Flex etc. many similar brands. We use it extensively for vet bandaging.
Easy to apply too tight but doesn't absorb water, is light, no fasteners needed, you can tear it with your fingers, it sticks to iself but is not adherant to skin, is semi-reusable if u unwrap it carefully, and if you need to you can rip a bit off,twist it up and it can act like a thin rope for a torniquet if needed

eg
http://www.horsesuppliesdirect.com.au/prod366.htm
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... SHCMRQXXgl
http://www.vetproductsdirect.com.au/ItemDesc.asp?IC=683

[jungle jim]

Hello there,

Just some input regarding setopress bandage. My setopress is medium/high compression rating, from my (layman) point of view they are not going to be useful in most cases for snake bite treatment. If you look at the the compression figures already stated (lower limb 40-70mmhg/upper limb 55-70mmhg) and those of setopress it will fall short in most instances. My understanding is Setopress applies different pressures depending on the circumference of the limb, lower values will make it unsuitable and this would include infants and small children. They have an extension difference of +/- 10% and only scrape in on one situation. They are a good asset in the first aid kit for other injuries but not snakebite. I think setopress is a great idea but they need to produce a material that achieves the correct compression for upper and lower limb bites. Setopress don't mention anything about using their bandage for snakebite. What else is there, I'm leaning towards bandages used on horses due to its adherance but it would take practice to get the compression right, maybe medical stockings (though very expensive)could give some insight. Overall it appears staying still is the highest priority when help is called.

[jackhinde]

... as for the doctors data, pffff.

You would not be interested in ointment then?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-27/a ... nt/2772856
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/201 ... 254643.htm

Cheers

as someone who handles venomous snakes on a daily basis i was quite interested in that research when it was released, and in the future if the follow up studies support the notion i will be sure to have some angina cream handy. something that needs to be stressed, staying still (at least the limb affected) is as important as a correctly applied bandage.

[Rob A]

My setopress is medium/high compression rating .... they are not going to be useful in most cases for snake bite treatment .... Overall it appears staying still is the highest priority when help is called.

Isnt that why you splint? I would imagine a bandage is still going to be beneficial. But overall I would have thought wound compression, bandage, splint to imobilise and probably elevate, then sit down and make a cup of tea. Read the tealeaves and prey it was a dry bite. Yea yea, nothing in the stomach or something someone will say.

[Nuts]

I also wondered about the usefulness of tension marked bandages. Quiet obvious really, all limb sizes being different. We use these: https://www.aussievetproducts.com.au/pr ... ge-10-Pack though iirc bought from eBay.. Havent used on a bite as yet but (smaller sizes) great for strapping ankles, knees.

I taught first aid for a while, bandaging should really be practiced. Strap a limb and see what happens. Over tensioning ( probably more common with narrower bandages/ in a panic) will become obvious.

[Overlandman]

if the paramedics removed your bandage and replaced it they placed you in a great danger. it unfortunately all to often i hear similar stories of inept tratment regarding snake bite. as for the doctors data, pffff.

As jackhinde said,
The only time the bandage should be removed is when you are in ICU with antivenim ready to be administered by a competent Doctor.
Regards Overlandman

[Nuts]

Makes sense, treating a snakebite obviously isn't the best time to practice..

[sambar358]

I guess carying the right type of compression badages for snake bite and knowing how to treat the bite is of value but for most the hard part would be the "staying put" issue and "what happens next". If you are alone and bitten...treated or not you are in some strife and the "getting assistance" bit is the difficult one especially in remote areas where mobile phone coverage is non-existant. So what next....."staying put and waiting for help".....could be a problem if you're out for a few days and no one is aware of your present situation.

I'm a deer hunter and while I mostly hunt in the cooler months, during the autumn and spring/early summer I'm still poking about and encounter quite a few snakes. I mostly hunt alone and often I am in very remote country 3-4 hours march from roads or my vehicle so potentially I'm in a spot of bother if I get grabbed by a rattler and need assistance. This doesn't deter me from doing what I enjoy but I do take some precautions....a few pressure bandages and the knowledge of what to do....but I also invested in a GME PLB (personal locator beacon) for absolute life-threatening situations and while I hope never to have to activate it none-the-less it is reassuring to know that it's sitting there in my daypack. And they do work.....a friend of mine injured himself quite badly in a fall in SE NSW during the winter and popped his GME PLB and he had a rescue chopper from the ACT complete with paramedics over him inside 40 minutes and they winched him out of the bush and off to the nearest hospital for treatment. Without his PLB it was likely that he would have taken a lot of finding and he'd have been in some danger of loosing his life....well-worth considering I reckon even if you never use it ! Cheers

sambar358

[Overlandman]

It pays to have compression bandages handy,
I carry two of them, when out & about, but I know they are not included in my work vehicle first aid kit.
Regards Overlandman

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-08/e ... te/4360344

An Ergon Energy worker who was found dead in central Queensland last week was killed by a bite from a taipan.

Searchers found the body of 57-year-old Andrew Vaughan after he disappeared while checking powerlines last Thursday near Yeppoon, north of Rockhampton.

Ergon says an autopsy has identified a bite from a taipan as the cause of death.

Ergon Energy spokesman Peter Billing says Mr Vaughan had been checking power poles.

"Andrew was working with another workmate and a contract backhoe operator clearing a track to get access to a pole for maintenance work to be carried out at a later time," he said.

"At some stage during those activities Andrew had been bitten by the snake."

Mr Billing says colleagues were in the area but were unaware of what had happened.

"The area they were working in, while it's only perhaps a kilometre off the road, is quite dense," he said.

"There's a lot of lantana and so on.

"Andrew had gone in to that area to find where the track would go to so they could continue the backhoe in.

"At some point in time while he was short distance away from both the backhoe and our other crew member that the incident happened."

Mr Billing from Ergon says risk assessments are carried out for work in the bush.

"We identify snakes and other potentially dangerous animals as part of our working environment," he said.

"Our people live in these communities so they are aware of snakes both in their personal life and their work life.

"There had been a risk management process conducted before the work started and snakes are clearly identified as one of the key risks."

[tsangpo]

I also wondered about the usefulness of tension marked bandages. Quiet obvious really, all limb sizes being different. We use these: https://www.aussievetproducts.com.au/pr ... ge-10-Pack though iirc bought from eBay.. Havent used on a bite as yet but (smaller sizes) great for strapping ankles, knees.

I taught first aid for a while, bandaging should really be practiced. Strap a limb and see what happens. Over tensioning ( probably more common with narrower bandages/ in a panic) will become obvious.

With the bandages with tension markings that I have seen it doesn't matter as to the limb size. They had lots of deformed circles/targets that you had to get circular when bandaging.

[Nuts]

Ok. They sound interesting.

[WarrenH]

Geoskid, thank you for your kind words Mate.

Today, on the radio I heard the first snake warnings for this year. The warnings are about the high number of snakes around. With warnings here in the ACT for Tigers, Eastern Browns and Copperheads and to the west of the Ranges, King Browns.

The person giving the warning says, "The best way to avoid being bitten by a snake is not to disturb it." Too true. I would have included, stay vigilant and have two compression bandages within easy reach. They're no good being at the bottom of a pack.

Previous warnings from past years here in the ACT have included, Look under your wheely bin before moving it and Open your letterbox slowly and this regular feature seen in the Botanic Gardens.




The section dedicated to the plants of the Sydney Basin in the Botanic Gardens, half the paths have been mulched over near the gullies. It is a jungle down there and one wouldn't see what bit them.

Warren.

[Lindsay]

I was speaking to my brother in Canowindra last night. He has had four brown snakes around the house already this month. Looks like being a very snakey season!

[north-north-west]

... potentially I'm in a spot of bother if I get grabbed by a rattler and need assistance...

I'd be very worried if you were hunting here and got grabbed by a rattler.

[Rob A]

Even worse if he was grabbed by the pair.

[kbm63]

http://www.intensivecarenetwork.com/ind ... -snakebite

The above link is from the Intensive Care network and the podcast/talk was given at the Bedside Critical Care conference 2012, so is an up to date, interesting (maybe a little medicalized for some) and recent Australian info regarding snakebite treatment.

[ferozious]

When you think about your plight if you were bitten by a snake, it makes no sense to be only 'half prepared'.

Ever since I had an ankle fracture in the wilderness with unsatisfactory fist aid equipment, I always bring numerous (around 5-6) large compression bandages. 99% of the time it won't be needed but on that one occaision where it is needed, you'll be very glad you carried the extra few grams with you - and you'd be very pissed off if you only brought 1 or 2 bandages and couldnt get good compression along the entire limb.

The ankle fracture incident is also the reason I now always hire a PLB (EPIRB) from the Springwood or Katoomba Police Station (free of charge!) before doing trips in the Blue Mountains.

ALWAYS carry ample first aid/emergency equipment, even for short day trips - it makes no sense to skimp on weight for vital first aid/emegency equipment.

[tasadam]

http://www.intensivecarenetwork.com/index.php/icn-activities/icn-podcasts/410-48-nickson-on-snakebite

The above link is from the Intensive Care network and the podcast/talk was given at the Bedside Critical Care conference 2012, so is an up to date, interesting (maybe a little medicalized for some) and recent Australian info regarding snakebite treatment.

Followed a chain of links and ended up at this story -

Okay.... um...

[tasadam]

Still following links...
http://lifeinthefastlane.com/2012/03/th ... -shopping/
Freaky!

[photohiker]

http://www.intensivecarenetwork.com/index.php/icn-activities/icn-podcasts/410-48-nickson-on-snakebite

The above link is from the Intensive Care network and the podcast/talk was given at the Bedside Critical Care conference 2012, so is an up to date, interesting (maybe a little medicalized for some) and recent Australian info regarding snakebite treatment.

Followed a chain of links and ended up at this story -

Okay.... um...

Almost made the Darwin awards. haha.

Mr Lyons said he was bitten by the snake, considered to be one of the most venomous after he picked it up from the side of the road...

Nope. If it was one of the most venomous he would have lost more than an arm, I think.

[Overlandman]

From the Advocate Newspaper
Not out in the bush, but in a backyard tent!
Regards Overlandman

A Tiger snake has turned a peaceful visit to Tasmania into a nightmare for a Victorian couple.

When Peter Stubbs woke in the middle of the night to find his wife Judy Kidd convulsing in their tent, he thought she may have been having a heart attack.

The couple, from Bendigo in country Victoria, were camping in the backyard of their friend's shack at Arthur River on Thursday  night when the venomous snake struck.

At the time, it wasn't known what had caused Ms Kidd to react that way, as there were no signs of a snake.

It wasn't until Ms Kidd was later transferred to Burnie's North West Regional Hospital that it was determined a tiger snake was responsible for the bite on her elbow.

``We were both asleep in the tent only 10 metres from the house, when I woke up, turned on the light and my wife was having a fit,'' Mr Stubbs said.

``Her eyes were rolling back in her head and she was waving her arms around all over the place.

``That was the scariest thing, waking up and finding her like that.''

An ambulance was called immediately, which travelled from Smithton to assess the 54-year-old.

When her condition didn't improve by mid-morning, Ms Kidd was transferred to Smithton Hospital.

``They sent her straight to Burnie, she went straight into ICU (Intensive Care Unit) where she was given an antidote,'' he said.

``They knew straight away it was a tiger snake.''

Ms Kidd remained in ICU until yesterday afternoon,  when she was transferred onto a ward.

She is now in a stable condition.

``She still can't open her eyes properly and she is having trouble swallowing, but she can breathe by herself now,'' Mr Stubbs said.

The couple are on holiday visiting friends and were due to return home tomorrow, but will now be forced to delay the return leg of their trip.

``The main thing is she is OK and recovering,'' Mr Stubbs said.

He praised ambulance and hospital staff for their professionalism.

Mr Stubbs said it served as a warning for people to be vigilant and aware of their surroundings.

``It will help people to realise that snakes are out and about at this time of year,'' he said.



[tasadam]

Wow. Frightening indeed! More possible to treat snakebite when you know you've been bitten!

[Strider]

Very strange that it was (seemingly) an unprovoked attack..

[tasadam]

Yes. The vision I had in mind, being that it was backyard camping, was that possibly the tent was either left open for a duration, or wasn't fully enclosed, and the snaked happened to wander to the wrong place.
Sounds like they did a great job at identifying the problem.
I remember a story on the east coast some years ago where a snake found its way under someones pillow in the house, and after a couple of dry bites, the person was rather rudely awoken!

[tasadam]

A bit of sad news from the mainland.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-13/s ... od/4569944

One thing from that page that makes me glad I'm in Tasmania -

The coastal taipan - with its multiple, rapid and highly-efficient strikes - is the snake most likely to inject you with a deadly amount of venom.

[matagi]

This is a bit of a worry though:

You can get bitten by a dead snake - they have a biting reflex that remains intact for many hours after death.