Rescue Helicopter "Not a Taxi"

[flyfisher]

Bottom line – I believe that providing emergency rescue services is a fundamental responsibility of any government and needs to remain free

Agree 100%.

FF

[frank_in_oz]

From my own experience Parks do not check the gear or experience of fee-paying walkers on the Overland Track. They provide the information about it and expect you to read and understand the requirements, risks etc. That is not unreasonable. However, there will always be people who will underestimate what they are undertaking, due to such issues as lack of experience, or English not being their first language. This, unfortunately, becomes a recipe for disaster. To address the language issue, maybe the information provided to intending walkers needs to be made available in multiple languages?

Great post John,
Agree with all your points.

I have been following a blog by a young American couple who walked the OT as part of their honeymoon. It is a bit of a laugh and provides an insight of how (young) people who speak English from another country view the OT. This is the link to their blog http://pristinezone.blogspot.com/

A couple of quotes from their posts may be useful in this discussion and their perception of the Track

The garbage bags that we bought to protect our gear and keep it dry were very flimsy and we did the best to keep the whole bag from ripping as we put our stuff inside

Here we were entering the rainforest terrain and for some reason, the boardwalk quit and the mud began.

her boots were digging into the back of her heels so much that she was constantly in pain

We took our shoes and socks off and I was surprised to see that I was bleeding rather profusely out of my foot. This was strange and the same thing had happened after our Hounslow Heath Track walk. It did not look to be a large cut, but it was very difficult to stop the bleeding. Later, I was to learn from a man from Sydney that the cause of this was that I had been bitten by a leech.

He also showed us one and told us about the leeches which is where the epiphany occurred to me and I indeed was not a hemophiliac.

A lot of the trail was boardwalk at this point, which made me believe that the boardwalk gets put in at some really random spots rather than where it is needed the most

The difficulties in this terrain were not only slogging through the mud, but the exposed tree roots making walking slick and difficult. Jacqueline was fairly grumpy about all of this, but it kept up the adventurous part of the whole trip for me.

In conclusion, if he thought he had become a haemophiliac following a leach bite, what would happen if he sprained his ankle or his wife had got really bad blisters? The chopper? maybe.......

[flyfisher]

I wonder if this would qualify me for a lift out---
walked from Junction lake through Never Never to Kia-Ora then down to Lees paddocks and out to the Mersey Forest Road with these.
Chopper would have been nice but I would have missed the company (and the scenery).

FF

Last edited by flyfisher on Thu 09 Apr, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Whos_asking99]

I wonder if this would qualify me for a lift out

In comparison to some of the stories of EPIRB uses ive read here....the answer would be "Yes".

Cant believe some people would use an EPIRB just because they cant be bothered to walk out...makes me so *&%$#! angry.

[sthughes]

Serves yourself right for using 'puny bendy substandard' crocs!
Just kdding - Actually in that picture they don't look half as bad as they did in reality - in reality it was painful just to look at em!

I think rescue services should be free for all. We should never be asked to put a price on our or someone eles life. More education seems to be needed on when to use an EPIRB/PLB.

Just a hypothetical - I wonder if certain illegal activities should entail a fee if rescue is required? Like base jumping for example. Basically hugely risky and illegal pursuits where rescue is often necessary? But where do you draw the line as to what is so risky it should be banned? - that would be the problem. Some would argue bushwalking is too dangerous, for others it would be driving a motorbike or skateboarding so I guess free for all is the only way.

[Joe]

I was talking to an industy Rep about the new SPOT units and epirb/plb usage came up. According to him on the mainland epirb (The vast majority of people that aren't into hair splitting still call them EPIRBS...I am aware of the distinction but just CBB ) usage is very much swayed into the vast majority false/needless alarms whereas the statistics in Tasmania are very unique with FAR more in favour of real need with only a handful of fake activations. The emergency feature on the SPOT units functions the same way as PLB. Tasmania is home to the SPOTs first emergency activation...and it was a real one. Like all of our wonderful local media stories with very little of any excitement happening on NW tas they need to blow out of proportion stories like this. I really hope the good minister choses to join in this forum as it would be interested to get it straight from horses mouth.

[olblackbilly]

If i am prepared to go out in the wilderness , i would never expect anyone to rescue me,if your not prepared to take risks dont do it,and dont rely on a helicopter to pick you up..

[corvus]

If i am prepared to go out in the wilderness , i would never expect anyone to rescue me,if your not prepared to take risks dont do it,and dont rely on a helicopter to pick you up..

Oh to be young and bulletproof again perhaps the wife and three kids may have a different take on this but then if you have such a small regard for yourself you may well be right
c

[Joe]

Perhaps in the same vein as an EPIRB people with similar views to mr Blackbilly could carry some sort of beacon that alerted authorities and passers by to let them perish in case of emergency....like a ELORFOOLB (Emergency Lack Of Regard For Ones Own Life Beacon)

[olblackbilly]

I quite value my life actually,thats why I always get fully prepared for all of the bushwalks that i have done, after all i have been bushwalking for over 40 years long before helicopter rescues and erirbs etc......how times have changed, now all i have to do if i get a sore ankle or feel slightly tired is to call up the rescue helicopter.......luxury.......

[corvus]

I quite value my life actually,thats why I always get fully prepared for all of the bushwalks that i have done, after all i have been bushwalking for over 40 years long before helicopter rescues and erirbs etc......how times have changed, now all i have to do if i get a sore ankle or feel slightly tired is to call up the rescue helicopter.......luxury.......

G'day olblackbilly,
It was your statement that "i would never expect anyone to rescue me" like you I have been BW on and off for over 50 years and believe me I never go out without being prepared however if I were in a remote area and the excrement hit the fan (ie at our age broken bones caused by tripytus or bad eyesight ) I would be grateful for a Chopper, BTW I have walked from Kia Ora via Pelion down the Reedy Lake Track with a torn Hammie ( albeit full of Panadol Forte and slowly).
I do agree however that misuse can creep in but I also think that most of the frivolous rescue stories were a bit of a beat up
to sell papers.
Please accept my apology for deeming youthfulness on you however in some respects at your age my misconception could be taken as a compliment
c

[mikethepike]

I think that the term EPIRB is generally used in a generic sense for all the signal/callout items that tasadam mentioned (possibly because it is the original term)and virtually all bushwalkers know what it means whereas a lot of bushwalkers including myself have not previously been familiar with the term PLB. The Tas. government hire out 'EPIRBS' to walkers. Yes, about 3 years ago, I heard that an EPIRB was activated because a group of 4 walkers 'got sick of walking' - apparently the group was recovered with one taken out for free while the others had to cough up some money. Most callouts I expect are genuine even if the 'soft way out' but the encouragement for walkers to take an EPIRB is probably encouraging more solo walking. If so, I wonder if solo walkers account for a disproportionately high number of callouts.
Mike

I wonder if this would qualify me for a lift out---

Walked from Junction lake through Never Never to Kia-Ora then down to Lees paddocks and out to the Mersey Forest Road with these.
Chopper would have been nice but I would have missed the company (and the scenery).

FF

Throw a couple of leeches on to those, and you'd have a helluva fun weekend. OUCH!

[cherryw]

Hi Guys

I have been involved with 2 helecoptor rescues.

The first one involved a woman in our group with heat exhaustion she was out cold for 3 hours. Was able to call 000 and they advised they were sending in a rescue party. We were about 6klm from the nearest road. After about 10 minutes they called back and advised they were sending in the air ambulance and 45 minutes later it arrived. This was near Mt Feathertop in the Victorian Alps. As the woman and her husband had Abmulance cover they never saw a bill but I would expect it to have been in the thousands of dollars. So on this occasion it was paid for.

The other time we used one was on the OT last July walking South to North. We hired a PLB/EPIRB at the rangers office. On day 6 at Windermere I came down with something and about 12am started vomiting and could not keep anything down. My mate decided to activate the PLB/EPIRB and after 2 attempts landed at 6am. After being examined by the medical officer they decided to airlift us out and I spend the rest of the day at Devenport Hospital. We asked them about who foots the bill as we also had ambulance cover to which they advised us that when a PLB/EPRIB is activated the Commonwealth picks up the tab as in the Ted Bullimore episode in the Southern Artic Ocean which cost millions. In hindsite setting it off may have been a bit hasty but you never know.

So again this was paid for.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Wayne

what was wrong with your stomach Wayne? Just curious....

[cherryw]

Hi
No idea, was poked and prodded, blood samples taken and they could not find anything. They had no idea except that I may have just picked up a bug somewhere.

Yup- these things do happen.

[olblackbilly]

i think anyone from overseas or from "the mainland" should pay a deposit of $5000 upfront before they can purchase an epirb, this might discourage a few of the softies and inexperienced walkers,save taxpayers dollars,and might stop them wrecking our tracks and our bush,might be more peaceful too.....less helicopters...!

[frank_in_oz]

might stop them wrecking our tracks and our bush

Jesus, I am starting to get sick of this...........

[sthughes]

i think anyone from overseas or from "the mainland" should pay a deposit of $5000 upfront before they can purchase an epirb, this might discourage a few of the softies and inexperienced walkers,save taxpayers dollars,and might stop them wrecking our tracks and our bush,might be more peaceful too.....less helicopters...!

So people who can't put their hands on $5k don't deserve to be saved in an emergency?

Perhaps the government should hire out PLB's with a sat phone built in so that they can ask the victim what is wrong before sending a search party/helicopter. If they say they have a broken nail or whatever then just tell them: "stiff bickies - walk your lazy butt out or we can put you through to a commercial helicopter company". If they say they fell from a cliff and their inners are hanging out then the operator could help them with first aid and dispatch the rescuers.

{incarnate deity}, I am starting to get sick of this...........

Me to, afterall we go over there and wreck their tracks and their bush. Additionally their taxes help pave our roads, treat our sick people and all the rest. It works two ways.

[Nuts]

I agree, some form of communication/plb combo is definately 'the go'.

PS, every time i read this thread I feel a bit queezy, cant someone move that photo?

[flyfisher]

I've taken the origional photo off for you Nuts, up to T C P now.
I can guarantee it was worse wearing them (blisters)than looking at a photo of ém .
FF

Last edited by flyfisher on Fri 10 Apr, 2009 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

I'll bet!! ( wasn't that serious though, just seem to keep seeing them and gulping)

[cherryw]

i think anyone from overseas or from "the mainland" should pay a deposit of $5000 upfront before they can purchase an epirb, this might discourage a few of the softies and inexperienced walkers,save taxpayers dollars,and might stop them wrecking our tracks and our bush,might be more peaceful too.....less helicopters...!

Well if you read what I had written then you would not make these assumptions. As I stated it does not cost the state taxpayers anything if they use a PLB/EPIRB this is wholely picked up by the Federal Government. I will not go into detail of how bad I was when the beacon was activated but at the time my mate seemed to think it was the best thing to do at the time.

If it wasn't for people from overseas and "the mainland" then where would your tourism be?

I believe that to carry an EPIRB/PLB you only use them in an EMERGENCY and I think that is what we did. Agreed that I someone uses them as they are tired and don't want to walk any further then charge them but there are times when you do need them.

Wayne

[olblackbilly]

you mainlanders are so sesitive, i wasn"t being completly serious,although the idea has some merits,.....maybe we could issue you a $5000 credit card with your free sat. phone just in case you had to use it, $5000 a phone call might sound expensive but could save your life...... those blisters dont seem to be getting much better.....

[corvus]

Good one oldblackbilly I just knew you were commenting with tongue in cheek just as well as your mouth was big enough to accommodate that and your foot ,oops Tassie!! foot in one mouth tongue in the other how silly of me to forget how unique we are (hang on I have only been here 40 odd years do I qualify) perhaps not but frequently in the morning I do wake up with what feels like a couple of sore heads does that count

[olblackbilly]

i wouldn"t give up yet corvus,you might qualify one day...,there"s an old saying from many moons ago......2 heads are better than one.........

[tasadam]

As I indicated at the start of this discussion, I invited Insp, Darren Hopkins and Hon Rene Hidding to participate.
We know Rene Hidding joined the forum (congrats to him), though unfortunately there has been no input.

Regarding Inspector Darren Hopkins, I sent an email and got a great response. I have not added that response earlier as I wanted to give this discussion every chance of evolving so a broad spectrum of opinions would be presented.

One point of note from that discussion is this comment -
I can assure you however, there is no intention to cost recover for search and rescue services in this state.
So it's not about the cost or cost recovery, it's about the appropriate use of the helicopter rescue service. And as usual by local media, a well beaten up story.

Response by Insp. Darren Hopkins -

15th January 2009
Adam

Thanks for the opportunity to take part in the forum. I have had a quick look at the thread of discussion and it is good to see some healthy ideas on the subject.

I am more than happy to answer any questions that you or members of your forum would like answered if I am able to. I can assure you however, there is no intention to cost recover for search and rescue services in this state.

For your information PLB or EPIRB activations nationally are the responsibility of Australia Search and Rescue (AUSSAR) in Canberra albeit from a bushwalker. Although it is likely to be police and the rescue helicopter that is dispatched to search for the device, AUSSAR pay for the cost of those missions. If however the incident is reported to police by a phone call from a bushwalker, then Tasmania Police are coordinating authority pick up the cost of the operation.

From my experience most operations on the Overland Track, are interstate walkers who trip or fall either breaking bones or suffering head injuries.
Some are as a result of inappropriate clothing and equipment. There have been instances where bushwalkers are simply tired or have blisters and have called to be rescued.

Regards
Darren Hopkins
Northern Search and Rescue

That should put the point on cost recovery to bed, let's see where the discussion goes from here.

Perhaps if the Overland Track was not in such poor condition, there would be less injuries on it.
I do also think particularly in the case of the Overland Track, not enough information on the standard of the track and the difficulty of the walk is made known to those that prepare to undertake it. I make this judgement based on discussions I have with walkers on the track, complaining about the mud and the difficult section (mud was not even ankle deep, and the difficult section was a section of tree roots on the track as you head down from Pine Forest Moor to Frog Flats).

[corvus]

Good one Tasadam that should clear up all misconceptions as to who bears the cost we now just need to educate walkers to use them only in a genuine emergency.
c

[cherryw]

The one thing that I noticed different with Tasmania and Victoria is that our ambulance is not a free service and if it is needed you pay for it. We have ambulance cover for "just in case" and this covers us for the whole of Australia. User pays. Maybe if this was adopted then people may think twice about using the service if they are slugged with a heafty bill.

Just my 2 cents worth.