Caldera Cone Awesomeness

[quicky]

I recently set forth on a pursuit of my own, more simplified cooking system...UL of course . My version incorporated the Trail Designs (TD) sidewinder with an Evernew 600 pot. I loved it, and have used it in conjunction with Zelph’s Starlyte stove on every trip since.

What has emerged now is a newfound love of Esbit. Sure, I’ve used it many times before, but now…I just can’t see past it…I love it! This led me to change things a little further, so I grew more determined to improve on my own system yet again.

So, in addition to Dan Durston's (from Backpackinglight.com) criteria set out in an earlier BPL thread, which were:

1. Simpler than 4 pieces
2. Lights easily in deep winter (Aussie winter anyway…lol)
3. Could be lighter
4. Could pack even better

I added the following criteria (essentially, as small, efficient and functionally simple as possible):

1. Dedicated Esbit stove
2. My pot had to be my mug…anything more is superfluous
3. My mug just had to have handles, simply because grabbing it with my Buff or whatever is simply a pain in the *ss…I’m over that.
4. I needed, at most, a volume of approx. 400ml. Anything larger and the mug becomes too big in volume for my standard cuppa (250ml), plus, my MYOG dehydrated meals rarely need more than 350mls of boiling water for rehydration.
5. The mug had to have the widest base I could find – helping with the efficiency of the Esbit burn
6. It had to be in a caldera cone…nothing beats the efficiency and simplicity of a caldera cone IMHO
7. The caldera cone had to be a sidewinder-type set up…so it fit inside the mug for storage

Wow…that’s a lot of criteria!!! So…. what I came up with was the Evernew EBY265 400ml Ti Mug. With a diameter of approx. 100ml, and a height of approx. 57mm, this mug was perfect.

One thing though, it didn’t come with a lid. I contacted Josh from Ruta Locura with the dimensions, and he recommended a couple of options. My first preference was the #2 carbon fiber lid. It fits like a treat.

I was initially going to MYOG a Caldera Cone using a Youtube tutorial, but after speaking with the guys at Trail Designs, I decided to go with TD simply because they make a great cone, and whilst I could have made one, nothing beats their dovetail joining, accuracy and finish. I asked them to make the cone fit inside the mug like a sidewinder. This meant however, that I would have to use a silicone band to set the height above the stove….no problem. I still have the packaging from the TD crew, where in the corner of the packet it says “…now that’s a small cone...Enjoy!”

Rolled up TD Caldera Cone for Evernew 400ml Ti Mug

What I ended up with from the crew at Trail Designs was the cone, plus they kindly threw in some extras including a ground up Gram Cracker, a couple of silicone bands and a titanium ground plate. How awesome was that?! I used their ground up Ti Gram Cracker, which works a treat...simply acting like a U shape with walls that press in on the sides of the Esbit (same philosophy as their normal Gram Cracker)...works well for when I want to use full Esbit tabs.

So, what have I now got now?.... a dedicated Esbit burning mug/pot that nests inside a custom caldera cone from TD, set to the height of 1.25 inches above my MYOG Brian Green Esbit Tray stove. Happy as a pig in ____! You'll probably notice how bent the Esbit Tray Stove is, that's because it's a test run made from flashing...so it's nice and bendy. I wanted to see if I could achieve even better flame control by being able to bend the sides in more when using the narrower, 4g Esbit tabs.

I forgot to mention, just as a precaution, I purchased the Snow Peak Hot Lips (thanks David Thomas from BPL! ), which hooks on and wraps around this mug really well. It adds an extra 3 grams to the total weight…whatever. I also considered simply using the silicone pot ring as the lip protector...sliding it up higher before I drink....but that would just become annoying after a while.

Total weight for this mini, efficient UL cook system is 85 grams.

Total stove set up weight

So far, average burn time for one cup of water is sitting at around 5 minutes, using about one third of a 14g Esbit. Although, quite frankly, now I have this set up, I don’t really care about burn times. I usually set the stove going while I do something else anyway. I’ve managed to bring one cup to boil using 7g worth of Esbit…as in…starting with a new, half Esbit cut lengthways. This is a good thing, so I ordered a heap of 4g Esbit tabs the other day. That way, I can use a couple at a time, and not worry about carrying half burnt Esbit… I simply let them burn out. Alternatively, I can use 3 little blocks totalling 12g which actually works really well for when I bring 350ml to the boil for dinners.

The set up can store 3 full 14g Esbits inside the cone, and two on the outside, plus there is room for a half light-load towel and mini-Bic lighter. Enough for a decent adventure that's for sure!

Cook kit with accessories

I got a bit carried away with my testing, and had the Esbit burning so huge that the flame came up through the handle cut out, and burnt through one of my silicone bands. Bummer. I may try something else here if anyone has any ideas…such as cork, or even some sort of permanent tabs type thing glued on to the outside of the pot. Anything to reduce the likelihood of burning through another band, avoiding the need for material to run through the handle portion of the mug.

Any ideas there?

Otherwise, I’m very happy. This would have to be one of the smallest, functionally simple, lightest & most efficient cook pot/mug systems that I have come across. Mission accomplished.

Packaged cook kit size

Cheers!!

In cone mode

Anyways, just thought I'd share
I’m thinking of naming this stove …'The M.E.U.L." Mini. Efficient. Ultra-light. ☺

[forest]

Hi Quicky

Awesome set-up. I can see you have put a lot of thought into this one.
I also have a love for Esbit now and Rand at Trail Designs is awesome to work with isn't he
Never thought I'd get into esbit but for short trips nothing is lighter and it's very easy to use. Can take a little lighting in bad conditions so have a good play getting it going at home in front of a fan. I normally shave/rough the edge of the tab up a bit with a knife and the flame seems to catch faster that way.

My set-up now is the Evernew 900ml wide pot with a Ti-Tri Sidewinder. Guess against yours, mine seems huge now . But still I'm amazed at how small the EV900 is. I also like to use a wood stove where possible and this set-up lets me do so well. I too played with the hot lips and have simply gone back to taking a small wax coated paper cup instead. Yeh it weighs 13 grams... but I can have my afternoon coffee or soup while the water for dinner boils. They last very well too. Cleaned out and dry I just stuff my camp socks in the cup to minimise squashing and throw it all in with my dry gear in the pack liner.

I've just about given up trying to lighten my gear now. For the amount of effort it takes me to shave 50, Maybe 100g it's just not worth it any more..... Or is it

Thanks for taking the time and doing the write-up.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Wow, That's impressive. I love my Trail Design system's and Esbit's are the great, been using nothing but esbit on my hikes for the past 7 months.

[Wollemi]

You guys are speaking a foreign language and/or the OP ought have an introductory paragraph in plain English. A one-off lightweight stove was made by a local fabricator - sympathetic to ultra-lightweight bushwalking - using the OP's specifications found elsewhere on-line?

Flames licking the Carbon Fibre lid could be a concern with respect to resin, if not CF?

[LandSailor]

For those new to esbit, its important to make sure the esbit stove retains the liquid run-off to get the best burn times.
More info here:-

http://www.briangreen.net/2011/11/titan ... stove.html

.

[ULWalkingPhil]

For those new to esbit, its important to make sure the esbit stove retains the liquid run-off to get the best burn times.
More info here:-

http://www.briangreen.net/2011/11/titan ... stove.html

.

I made that Esbit Stove, have not tried it thus far. I'm getting long burn times with the Gram Cracker Stove, I don't think there's any difference between the two, but like I said, have not compared the two thus far. I don't tend to use my Esbit's for running tests, there not easy to come by, so I save them for hikes.

Attachments

Homemade Titanium Esbit Stove.jpg (76.43 KiB) Viewed 11579 times

[Bluegum Mic]

Hi Philip
Looking on ebay there's plenty of people selling esbit (including local suppliers). Might be easier to buy there and get it posted to you? I could have sworn kmart used to sell it too.

[Nuts]

hmmm, that silicone band is a better idea than the two tent pegs. I wonder if it would hold up my 750ml pot full? It will cop a lot of heat, no problems there?
I think i'd stick with metho but that looks like a good setup quicky. I went with the pasta pot mainly to fit the ti windshield but that would be a better option for a smaller pot than carrying the caddy thing.

[quicky]

Wow, That's impressive. I love my Trail Design system's and Esbit's are the great, been using nothing but esbit on my hikes for the past 7 months.

Ditto, Esbit has been my staple for quite a while now too.

[quicky]

For those new to esbit, its important to make sure the esbit stove retains the liquid run-off to get the best burn times.
More info here:-

http://www.briangreen.net/2011/11/titan ... stove.html

.

I made that Esbit Stove, have not tried it thus far. I'm getting long burn times with the Gram Cracker Stove, I don't think there's any difference between the two, but like I said, have not compared the two thus far. I don't tend to use my Esbit's for running tests, there not easy to come by, so I save them for hikes.

I get great burn times with my Gram Cracker too, however it sat a little too high, meaning my distance between stove and mug was not big enough.
I also placed some JB Weld in the corners of my Brian Green Esbit tray stove to stop the run off...otherwise, the flame gets a little messy from time to time.

[quicky]

Hi Philip
Looking on ebay there's plenty of people selling esbit (including local suppliers). Might be easier to buy there and get it posted to you? I could have sworn kmart used to sell it too.

I get mine off eBay...it's pretty cheap. Bogong are Esbit retailers here in Melbourne, however they stock everything Esbit except for their solid fuels...well....they do, it's just they run out of fuel stock quickly, and don't restock often enough.

[quicky]

hmmm, that silicone band is a better idea than the two tent pegs. I wonder if it would hold up my 750ml pot full? It will cop a lot of heat, no problems there?
I think i'd stick with metho but that looks like a good setup quicky. I went with the pasta pot mainly to fit the ti windshield but that would be a better option for a smaller pot than carrying the caddy thing.

I know guys who have similar set ups for Evernew 900 pots and use the silicone band too...no problems there for them. Yeah, I thought that the 'caddy' thing was superfluous, given that my pot became my mug. It's now half the volume of the Caddy Set up.

[quicky]

You guys are speaking a foreign language and/or the OP ought have an introductory paragraph in plain English.

I didn't think it was that esoteric or stooped in vernacular... anyways...sorry about that. , A Sidewinder is a product name from Trail Designs, where their windscreen/caldera cone set up fits inside the pot for packability. Plus, the sidewinder allows for various fuel uses including Esbit, alcohol or wood burning...it's a very cool product.http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-sidewinder.

A one-off lightweight stove was made by a local fabricator - sympathetic to ultra-lightweight bushwalking - using the OP's specifications found elsewhere on-line?

Not sure what you mean here?

Flames licking the Carbon Fibre lid could be a concern with respect to resin, if not CF?

No problem at all. Ruta Locura have a long standing history with making carbon fibre lids for UL stoves/hiking market. http://www.rutalocura.com/Carbon_Lids.html There is no other point (on my mug) for flame to flick up the sides apart from the space where the handle is. Either way, that would have to be a huge, uncontrolled Esbit flame to reach that high. As with any stove or flame for that matter, they should always be monitored and controlled. As far as the lid and heat go...I'm not concerned.

[ULWalkingPhil]

hmmm, that silicone band is a better idea than the two tent pegs. I wonder if it would hold up my 750ml pot full? It will cop a lot of heat, no problems there?
I think i'd stick with metho but that looks like a good setup quicky. I went with the pasta pot mainly to fit the ti windshield but that would be a better option for a smaller pot than carrying the caddy thing.

The silicone bands that Trail Designs supplies are awesome, problem if you want to store your beer can pots in the supplied storage container they supply with the beer can cooking system is it will not fit and its a pain to remove and insert every-time you want to cook. For this reason I don't use the supplied silicon bands on my beer can pots.

[Aushiker]

I am also a fan of Trail Designs. I have a Trail Designs Sidewinder Ti-Tri Cooking System and really like it. I hadn't considered using the esbit stove as my last significant use of the stove was on a 3,000 km bike tour so I stuck to meths. However, having read this thread I will give the Esbit option a go on shorter rides/bushwalks.

Thanks
Andrew

[ULWalkingPhil]

I looked at ebay suppliers for esbit tabs, no australian sellers selling the 14gram tabs.

[Nuts]

Wrap the silicon band in foil at the handle cutout ?

[quicky]

Hey Phill
I recently bought my 4g Esbits from this eBay link http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Boxes-Esbit-Solid-Fuel-Tabs-80-tabs-New-Carefully-packed-/330843020661?pt=AU_Toys_Hobbies_Powered_Toys&hash=item4d07c7dd75

But here is another that seems relatively well priced http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-Esbit-Solid-Fuel-Cubes-14-g-Tablets-Emergency-Pocket-Titanium-Stoves-/380560832903?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item589b317987 The shipping seems quite cheap too!! Perhaps that's worth looking in to?

Nuts
Cheers for that. I haven't had any further issues since my careless testing! I may also try JB Welding some small lugs/tabs or something onto a few points around the mug, to do away with the silicone band altogether.

[Onestepmore]

What about a single small pin placed through two holes opposite the handle end cutout to support the cup and stop it tilting?
(At work last week I was looking at the fine diameter Kirschner wires we use for small bone pinning when I thought of this, but I am sure even a piece of regular wire would do for something so small. Of course titanium wire would be perfect!)
One side of the mug is supported by the handles, the other by the pin. It'd fit inside the diameter of the mug for storage. Then you don't have to modify - and potentially damage- your cup. More bits to lose though I guess, more weight.

[quicky]

What about a single small pin placed through two holes opposite the handle end cutout to support the cup and stop it tilting?
(At work last week I was looking at the fine diameter Kirschner wires we use for small bone pinning when I thought of this, but I am sure even a piece of regular wire would do for something so small. Of course titanium wire would be perfect!)
One side of the mug is supported by the handles, the other by the pin. It'd fit inside the diameter of the mug for storage. Then you don't have to modify - and potentially damage- your cup. More bits to lose though I guess, more weight.

Hiya Onestepmore

They do actually have that as a standard option on there pre-sized cones (for wood stove mode, which gets the pot much higher), however I didn't ask for it on this custom cone simply because I didn't want to have to fuss with another piece of equipment and set-up process. Otherwise yes... great idea.

[andrewa]

As an old f..t (50), its fascinating to read posts like this - somehow I had missed it. Esbit stoves were around when I started bush walking in the mid 70s. No one amongst my group used them. Shellfire stoves were the go then. Optimus ..."choofers"...

35yrs later we are back to Esbit. And 16yo boys these days have long hair like I had at 16. Life seems to go in cycles.

Are we about to reinvent the "choofer"?

Andrew A

[Spartan]

Hi, Quicky.

I really don't get the retro love affair with 'hexy'.
I've spent the better part of two decades being forced to use hexamine (i.e. 'esbit') to cook with anytime I had to travel by air from Point 'A' to Point 'P' because the RAAF consistently refused to allow anyone to bring a basic isobutane canister stove aboard their various platforms.
My experience has been that 'hexy' stinks, it's rather inefficient when compared to most other fuel sources, it doesn't handle water well, and it takes far too long to boil even a basic brew nevermind simmering a passable repast. But I guess the fairly basic and disposable pressed aluminium stove the Army issues wouldn't be anywhere near as efficient as your caldera.
Your stove looks remarkably like a rounded version of the US produced "cups, canteen" stove that many Diggers have employed over the years. I was wondering, have you ever used one of the latter?

All the best,

Ian

[quicky]

Hi, Quicky.

I really don't get the retro love affair with 'hexy'. Ian

Nor did I until about 6-12 months ago.

My experience has been that 'hexy' stinks

It totally does, you're right...it took ages for me to learn to love it. After lots of experimenting (efficiency etc.), the hexamine stench has now been engrained in my nostrils, with my emotional and sense memory recall now wafting in waves of good memories and relaxation.

it's rather inefficient when compared to most other fuel sources, it doesn't handle water well, and it takes far too long to boil even a basic brew nevermind simmering a passable repast.

I used to think similarly, until I learned to not give a s**t about boil times. There is always something to do while waiting...even if it's wasting time! As far as efficiency goes, it's as equally as efficient when used as part of an efficient system. I can boil a cup of water on 1 x 4g esbit tab. That's good enough for me, and it's relatively bulletproof in application.

Your stove looks remarkably like a rounded version of the US produced "cups, canteen" stove that many Diggers have employed over the years. I was wondering, have you ever used one of the latter?

I haven't, but I certainly do know about them.

Thanks Ian.