Quagmire Gaiters

[Joe]

Having seen the few pairs of Quagmire gaiters with issues around the walkers on the aniversary walk and heard the disgruntled cries of I should build my own from a stroller or two I chased the Sea to Summit rep today and he has requested photographic evidence so they can work towards rectifying the few stitching issues that seem to be appearing in the Quagmires. If you have a pair of quagmires with issues can you post pics in this thread of the areas of wear. Also if you have a pair that have failed you scrub them up and PM me and we should be able to organise repair or replacement. They have to be clean though. No muddy messy gaiters will be worked on by me

Last edited by Joe on Tue 31 Mar, 2009 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Penguin]

I think it is fair to say that my Quagmires have died of old age. Mine were the orginals, I think about 5 to 6 years old, and they have had a togh life.

Happy to give them to you to show the rep where the fabric wears on the medial side of the gaiter at the point where the strap is secured. Also the stitching at the bottom frays.

But, taswaterfall, find me a good replacement with the features we have talked about first so I have something to wear in the meantime

P

[stu]

It's not just me then; I am on to my third replacement pair of Quagmires (they seem to collapse at around 3 months of pretty intensive use).
Thanks to Amanda @ MD's for her understanding & replacements.
Mine seem to keep de-stitching down the length (behind the velcro) & also de-stitch around the scuff guards.
I thought they had rectified this issue with stronger thread but obviously not.
If this pair don't go the distance may look for a different brand.

[Penguin]

Mine seem to keep de-stitching down the length (behind the velcro) & also de-stitch around the scuff guards.
I thought they had rectified this issue with stronger thread but obviously not.

Mine are too old to have scuff guards, I used Aquaseal over the area where the scuff guards were later added and this worked a treat. To me the way the scuff guards are added are just asking for trouble - too many edges to get caught on rocks etc. A well designed gaiter would no need the scuff guard in the first place. I am going to get Taswaterfalls to send mine to S2S to see what they say, I just need a temporary pair in the meantime.

[Joe]

It certainly isn't an epidemic! Just a few forum members have mentioned to me some stitching issues with the gaiters. I haven't seen any issues with mine. We sell them by truckload and would have under 1-2% return on them....however Sea to Summit are the sort of company who like feedback so they can make their gear tougher. If something is wearing they want to fix it. The Hypalon wear guards are something that seems to let go eventually on them...which really isn't an issue as if they fall off the gaiter still works perfectly fine. But a couple of forum members have reported velcro stitching letting go on the top velcro strap. if anyone can get me pictures of this sort of thing we can work with S2S towards building the best gaiters available.

Also when I said I can explore returns if you have a pair that failed I meant this century...if they are years old and have just worn out then IMHO its not fair to send them back to S2S.

[norts]

I had the stitching coming off the wear guard, I sent them back to S2S. They restitched them and I then covered the stitching with Freesole. I also had to resew the main velcro down the front, luckily I had a friend who had a sail cloth needle.
Friend also had to get replacement straps.
Roger

[tasadam]

My original Quagmires (about 4 years old) lasted a good life and they still work, the only issue with them is that the velcro around the top is all frayed and coming off.
Having tried these gaiters on a weekend walk recently, I also notice they are nowhere near as solid up the centre strip as the new Quagmires, and they tend to fall down a bit.
The older ones have a much better hook system for grabbing the laces than the new ones that stick out and can get stuck on Bauera etc, a real hazard.
But the biggest issue I find with the new ones is the failings in the stitching. We bought them (2 pairs) in November, they both have fairly significant issues.
On my wifes pair, firstly a lace hook came off all together, the rivets failed. Top repair job, thanks TWF & crew.
Now the stitching on the top velcro strip has failed and it's a shaggy mess. The under-boot strap on her pair doesn't seem to be as indestructable as my pairs.
The tabs with the clips on them (new pair) both came off completely, also some velcro stitching issues.
It's a real shame, because these do seem to be the best out there.

Photos to follow, and a good scrub up...

What to do?
(A) Hope that Sea to Summit take our concerns on board and improve the quality issues
(B) Have someone custom design something that will last
(C) Look for another alternative.

Paying that much for a gaiter, you would expect to get a reasonable life out of it. They might be fine for the average overland-trekker, but if these are the best out there, what about all the other tracks that actually TEST equipment?
It's not a cost issue, it's a value for money issue. I don't mind paying, if I'm paying for quality and reliability.
It's only gaiters, but some equipment can well be life-dependant on a walk. Quality is indeed important.

My tent was 18 years old, and problems with it were minor, but I replaced it because it was old - and I need to rely completely on it in anything that nature throws at me.
My pack was near 20 years old when I replaced it - but it is still an excellent pack. But how many times can you pick up 20+ kg's on one strap to throw it over your shoulder, and still expect it to hang in there? I don't know - it hasn't failed yet, but I know what it's been through and I need to rely on it, so it's been replaced.

I don't want to have to be paying near $100 every time a pair of gaiters fails, unless it's because of my own harsh treatment of them. And if that's the case, maybe I need to find a gaiter that will stand up to some harder wear than Quagmires are capable of.

I still believe in my Quagmires, but they do need to have a look at what is going wrong, so I appreciate their willingness to investigate, and to listen to us.
And I would be happy to let them know everything I like in my gaiters.

[Penguin]

Also when I said I can explore returns if you have a pair that failed I meant this century...if they are years old and have just worn out then IMHO its not fair to send them back to S2S.

So no lifetime guarantee .

I do not expect a replacement but the failure points could be improved. It is about improvement as IMO most gaiters are not well designed for our conditions. Where as other clothing, packs, footwear, tents, et all offer us a range of good options. Amongst the main people I walk with, all see unhappy with one aspect or another of their gaiters; many having bought a couple of pairs over the last year or two due to failure or discomfort.

I suppose all walkers should have something to whinge about

P

[Son of a Beach]

Having looked at other people's Quagmires, it makes me wonder what the world is coming to if they're the best available these days. My old 'Adventure Design' gaiters are about 10 years old, and are still going strong, and are still better than the brand new Quagmires I've seen. The laces hook is covered so doesn't catch on anything, they stand up on their own, the velcro is diagonal down the side (not front opening) overlapping front over back so as not to catch on anything, they cover my boots well, and they do not ride up (even with no strap under my boots).

Unfortunately, you cannot buy these gaiters anymore, and nobody seems to make anything anywhere near as good. I'm not trying to give S2S a hard time here, as I agree with the general consensus that they appear to be the best on the market at the moment. However, when the best on the market now is nowhere near as good as a cheap pair from 10 years ago, there's something wrong.

If I could get hold of the right fabric and hooks, I'd make my own, based on the design of my existing ones, because I cannot find anything out there that measures up to what I've currently got.

S2S - do you want to have a look at some genuinely good gaiters to get some ideas? I'd be happy to send them to you, so long as you send me back some of you new model when they come out.

[Penguin]

If I could get hold of the right fabric and hooks, I'd make my own, based on the design of my existing ones, because I cannot find anything out there that measures up to what I've currently got.

SOB - I agree. I liked you gaiters when I saw them.

When in Invercagill, NZ, a few years back a hiking shop I went in had a whole wall of different gaiter designs and brands. Most shops here only have the S2S.

Maybe we just need a few others to get serious about making and marketing gaiters to get an improvement.

Cheers

P

[Joe]

It's more than possible for us (speaking as a store) to cover a wall in gaiters....but it would be a case of a wall full of designs that don't stack up to the quagmire. The WE bush gaiter is a solid gaiter which we also stock however a lot don't like it for its press studs.

[ollster]

I've got a pair of quagmires... 2006 vintage I think. Yep, stitching down the front edge of the outer velcro has come undone. Also, the nylon has frayed quite substantially from rock and scrub.

They are still the best *design* though, IMO, and I bought a second pair...

[Joe]

I need pictures to get anything done folks....less talk more happy snaps

[corvus]

Looking at the the problems experienced with Quagmiers I am glad I purchased WE ones studs and all however I hope the latest design WE will keep snug to my boots and not allow snow build up like my current pair .
C

[Penguin]

It's more than possible for us (speaking as a store) to cover a wall in gaiters....but it would be a case of a wall full of designs that don't stack up to the quagmire. The WE bush gaiter is a solid gaiter which we also stock however a lot don't like it for its press studs.

TWS, I obviously did not express my point well. The Quagmire is a good gaiter to stock, but surely the design must be able to be improved. Many people have reported failure with these, and their competition, soon after purchase. Even if you have not people bring them back to the retailer, out on the track people are not fully satisfied. On the recent Southern Ranges trip all five of us had gaiter failure. Can't we do better? It is great that S2S is wanting feedback to improve their product.

Having seen the original Macpac gaiters and Nik's aged gaiters recently, I think we can learn from past designs. Better boot coverage, better front anchorage, stiff enough to be self standing yet comfortable, and good closure systems.

Are you sure you wanted to open this can of worms????

[Joe]

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough, I'm a shocker for rambling off track. The point of that thread was to get people to submit photos of their failing current model quagmires...Should create a separate thread for gaiter discussion I guess. When I mentioned to the rep that we were having gaiter failures he was genuinely surprised as they see very few returns on the big island. He asked if all the gaiters were purchased in our store which obviously they were not so he asked if I could organise photo evidence so that when he takes it back to S2S design team he has something to back his claims up with.

So yeah...m happy to open the can of worms...but at this stage we need not discourse...we need evidence

Also should mention that I am conducting this outside work, personally just hoping we can get a better gaiter. The fact that I work in the industry just makes it easier to get this done. I am doing this separate to the store.

I don't need to hear about your hopes or disappointments...just show me photos

Tasadam: you need not worry about photos, your's will be warranty fixed

[pomysi]

Ill be the first then, I have had my quagmires for around 9-12 months now and get on really well with them. They are breathable and stay up well and the fit is awesome. Ive had them in the snow a few times and thought they faired ok.

I did actually buy them from your place prior to you arriving.

I was going to let the pads fall off but when i was walking along and got a stick stuck in the hole it was the last straw, lol, i nearly tripped over.

As I hope you can see the stitching is coming off the pad area 25mm around the top and fraying, the same at the bottom. This was first apparent after the first couple of trips and occuring on both legs. Other problems I have seen are not apparent as yet, Im refering to the kevlar underbelt.

Let me know what you think. Don't worry I will clean prior to sending them anywhere.

Si.

[ollster]

As noted above, pretty sure mine are 2006, pretty sure they are Quagmire (but the model tag has lost it's text).

As you can see the stitching down the front of each gaiter has come undone. I won't say that these haven't gotten some use, but it's a bit wierd that both these have de-stitched in the same spot.

Attachments

[Joe]

This is exactly what I needed...thanks guys. Anyone else?

[Penguin]

TWS

I know this is off topic, the fact that you are after failures in Quagmire rather than comparisons with other gaiters.

BUT I did a tour of Hobart walking shops while I was down over the last two days. Four of the five shops in Central Hobart just had S2S gaiters. MacPac had their own. The quagmire in the shops all had three lots of stiching on the patches, did the early ones only have one row?

The new MacPac gaiters also have the patches but with only one lot stitching. I can see these failing on the first bit decent scub or rocks. I bought the last set of MacPac classics the had. No WE gaiters. No One Planet gaiters. No Berghaus gaiters. So S2S better produce the best gaiters they can as they are the only game in town.

P

[ollster]

OK, new gaiters. 3 walks totalling 8 days worth of walking. Front seam coming apart. for *&^%$# sake!

Attachments

[tasadam]

I have had a number of problems with 2 pairs of Quagmire gaiters purchased November 2008 from a bushwalking gear shop in Burnie.
To date, both pairs shown here have done -
9 days in the mud on the South Coast track;
8 days in central Tasmania, Mt Thetis, Perrins Bluff, Pelion West and the likes;
Overnight to Lake Myrtle / Mt Rogoona;
Overnight to Cathedral Mountain / Twin Spires;
Overnight via Barn Bluff to Waterfall Valley, return via Hansons Peak;
Maybe a couple of day walks.

That is not a lot of use for what was believed to be the best Gaiters you could get.

Each of these pictures is a clickable thumbnail to a larger picture.
The first problem was that one of the lace hooks came off - the rivets failed. So I took it to the store and they replaced the rivets there with these ones - an excellent repair job, but the point is of course, they should not have failed on their first outing.


The stitching has come away from the velcro on the strap on top of one of the gaiters -


The strap that goes under the foot has deteriorated a lot quicker than the old pair - a pair of Quagmire gaiters 4 years old has got a strap underfoot with no visible wear to the extremely strong strap underfoot. Whereas, these gaiters have had less than 6 months use.




The stitching at the base of my gaiters that holds the clip in (as visible on the Gaiters in the first photo) has failed on both gaiters, and the tabs with the buttons have come off. I still have them - the buttons were still done up so I was able to recover them.
Left -


Right -


They are now washed and ready to go...

[Nuts]

It is curious that of 20 odd pair of grasshoppers (which have now seen a lot of use), not one has any of these problems....?

[corvus]

Nuts ,
Please explain what are grasshoppers
c

[Nuts]

Nuts ,
Please explain what are grasshoppers
c

S2S Cheapest Gaiter!

[Ent]

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[corvus]

Brett,
I have been informed that WE is distributed by STS but are a disparate enterprise and that WE founder Ian ? (sorry )still is hands on with WE .
c

[corvus]

Check out this site http://www.wildequipment.com.au/gaiters ... cat=Canvas

[geoskid]

Hey Tasadam,
You are quite the quiet acheiver, thats a fair list since Nov' 08 - good on you! I noticed you normally walk with your wife,-again fantastic! Your Gaiters might lasy longer if you take them off before going to bed - just a thought!

[Ent]

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Last edited by Ent on Thu 11 Nov, 2010 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.