TASMAP Electronic Downloads - some progress

[Miyata610]

As I've said before, I'm really very happy with the poor quality ancient tasmaps that memory map supply for very little money. They're good enough for my purposes.

[colinm]

As I've said before, I'm really very happy with the poor quality ancient tasmaps that memory map supply for very little money. They're good enough for my purposes.

I've got some 50+ year old sketch maps which make excellent wall hangings for my porpoises.

[tastrax]

Anyway, I'd start by reading the Tasmanian Right to Information Act 2009 http://goo.gl/mvXiv and the associated regulations http://goo.gl/t3NEF to see if there are any specific exclusions which would put geodata outside the scope of the act. I haven't read it, but I sort of doubt there will be.

How about this clause
9. Persons not entitled to apply for certain information already otherwise available

A person is not entitled under this Part to –

(a) information that may be inspected by the public in accordance with another Act; or

(b) information that may be purchased at a reasonable cost in accordance with arrangements made by a public authority.

You can inspect all the vector data on LIST and buy all the vector data (just contact them) and that's also what the SIF project is about - a better interface to download the data

http://www.dpipwe.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/ ... SJ5YF?open

A web-based spatial data delivery service – providing new capabilities for downloading and delivering spatial data


Having said all that I would love to see a system like the LINZ system where its all free

[colinm]

A person is not entitled under this Part to –
(b) information that may be purchased at a reasonable cost in accordance with arrangements made by a public authority.

So that information is available *now*? Right now? If it's one of those vague future promises, that won't cut it - you should put the application in ASAP. Will the data be available to *you*? Do you know that? How do you know that?

Secondly, the question of 'reasonable cost' ... it should be just above the marginal cost of production, is it? Alternatively, you can probably get a measure of 'reasonable cost' from the Act ... it'll tell you what the act itself considers reasonable. If it costs 1 hour at $30 per hour to generate the data but they want to charge $300 for the same data, it could be argued that that cost is not reasonable.

[Son of a Beach]

When it comes to the maps being old... some of us like the older maps better anyhow. They have less tracks and huts removed.

(doh! did I raise that again???)

[wander]

I must admit most if not all the maps I am interested in will not have that many changes due to updates. The geography will not change much in 20 years. And it is accurate enough. And you are fool if you trust the mapped locations of any track inside any Parks area. The only change I would like is the grid to be shifted to be GDA94, but I'm even flexible on this. Therefore just issue the digital maps.

That said some maps in rapidly changing areas such as Huonville could be held back until they are updated, but in all of Tasmania this situation would really only effect about 1/2 doz of the 25K sheets.

I am happy with TasMaps response to change advise, I contacted them to say a particular track was poorly aligned on the LIST map and would they like my GPX file of it. The answer was yes and they made the change to the map and commented back to me that my data was consistent with change data from Parks for the same track. I've seen the change to the track alignment on a map the LIST sent me a month ago but this has not filtered through to the LIST map that comes up when I check about it today.

[tastrax]

So that information is available *now*? Right now? If it's one of those vague future promises, that won't cut it - you should put the application in ASAP. Will the data be available to *you*? Do you know that? How do you know that?

Secondly, the question of 'reasonable cost' ... it should be just above the marginal cost of production, is it? Alternatively, you can probably get a measure of 'reasonable cost' from the Act ... it'll tell you what the act itself considers reasonable. If it costs 1 hour at $30 per hour to generate the data but they want to charge $300 for the same data, it could be argued that that cost is not reasonable.

http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/docs/pricing/pricing.html

[colinm]

Right. I don't think those prices are reasonable. You may be snookered wrt getting the data other ways, though.

[wander]

These maps at http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/docs/pricing/pricing.html would appear to be 200dpi maps which are worse definition than a paper map and they are not usable in the field once printed.

[DonQx]

"appear to be 200dpi maps which are worse definition than a paper map and they are not usable in the field once printed"

had a quick look at a 1:25,000 on CD here at work

quality is certainly good enough to print & use in the field

screenshot below with image info (IrfanView), jpg format 65% quality ... are these 200dpi? ... not sure that my talents are good enuf to work that out

[wander]

It is clearly stated here http://www.thelist.tas.gov.au/docs/pricing/RasterCosts.pdf that the maps are variously 200 or 175 dpi.

200dpi may look ok on the screen but they do not print, even with commercial printing, well enough for serious field work. I have been involved with the production of at least 8 24 hour rogaine maps and our finding over the years has been that 300dpi is just acceptable and 400dpi is the more reliable standard. Refer to here http://sa.rogaine.asn.au/images/Documents/Setting%20Guidelines.pdf for a published confirmation of this.

[photohiker]

"appear to be 200dpi maps which are worse definition than a paper map and they are not usable in the field once printed"

had a quick look at a 1:25,000 on CD here at work

quality is certainly good enough to print & use in the field

screenshot below with image info (IrfanView), jpg format 65% quality ... are these 200dpi? ... not sure that my talents are good enuf to work that out

2013-03-28 10.jpg

6290 x 3145 pixels

Print that at the standard 300ppi and you have a map 21 x 10.5 inches (53 x 27cm) Compact!

The problem is the size of the lines and the lack of fine detail when viewed at print size. On the GPS, its even worse - as you zoom in all you get is blur.

[DonQx]

"they do not print, even with commercial printing, well enough for serious field work"

Granted, that they're not as good as purchased hardcopy ... but I find them quite workable ... and my eyes aren't the best

6290 x 3145 pixels
Print that at the standard 300ppi and you have a map 21 x 10.5 inches (53 x 27cm) Compact!
The problem is the size of the lines and the lack of fine detail when viewed at print size. On the GPS, its even worse - as you zoom in all you get is blur.

I'm no expert at any of this, but when I print it to scale (ie. 4cm on paper = 1km in field) then what I said above ... I find them workable

Worse on the GPS? ... hmmm ... just got a 2nd hand Holux FuTrek 130 with MemoryMap Tas Topo ... can't say that I've noticed the "as you zoom in all you get is blur" problem with any zooming I've done so far. And from what I've read further above the Memory Map maps should be worse quality than TasMap?

But maybe I'm just a bit thick

dq.

[photohiker]

I doubt you're thick Don.

When a map is scanned at 200dpi, the best print will be when printed at the same resolution. The problem with the GPS side of things is that it is easy to zoom in past the ideal screen resolution - at that point there is no more detail to show and things start falling apart. Perhaps you don't have a reference for a 'good' implementation of digital maps, and that would explain your acceptance of the maps as presented.

I have some digital mapping products at 1:25k from Ordnance Survey in the UK. They are also raster maps (images, not vector) like the Tasmap, but they are derived directly from the digital masters. The details are clear and you have to zoom a long way in for the map to reveal it's pixels. One of the methods they use is that the digital map is actually several images at different resolutions which are cycled as you zoom in - that way relevant detail is shown when zoomed out without too much clutter but when zoomed in greater detail becomes available. Here are some screenshots progressively zooming into the map to show what I mean:

Zoomed out:


Zooming in:






Zoomed all the way in:


The result is that at almost any chosen zoom level, useful and clear information is available to the user, zooming in gives more detail, and the display is always sharp.

[DonQx]

Thanks for the explanation photohiker.

Have just done a similar exercise with Memory Map on the PC ... results below ... looks to me like a bit of a difference, but is it that big for practical purposes?

Tried the same on the GPS, but have just lost the 100K & 25K maps, some weird error message ... think about it later. Need to get started on packing for the Easter trip .

1:250,000

2013-03-28 3.jpg (35.77 KiB) Viewed 27554 times

1:100,000

1:25,000

dq.

BTW: Methinks TasMap pricing is way over the top too.

[photohiker]

looks to me like a bit of a difference, but is it that big for practical purposes?

Dove lake is about 2km long, yes?

Here is the difference:



I'd value that difference if I could have it, but it simply isn't available from Tasmap.

[DonQx]

hmmm .... do they have detailed maps like that for remoter areas?

coz with the full Memory Map Tas Top you also get the town maps, and what you can do with them doesn't look too dissimilar ... I think

What do you reckon?

Memory Map Tas Topo on PC zoomed in past 1:25,000 ... now showing 1:5,000 (I think?) Tas Town map

Attachments

2013-03-29 1.jpg (107.69 KiB) Viewed 27523 times

[photohiker]

Yes, on the UK maps, the maximum zoom covers the whole area, but it does not include contours so it's useful for checking features etc but not the lie of the land.

Memory map seems to have done an ok job with the Tasmap. Comparing the images you can see the difference between the digital sourced and the paper scan but in use on a small screen like the Holux, it might not make much difference.

Comparing with Openstreetmap, if the area is well mapped it's a bit hard to beat:

Dornie at about 80% zoom in Garmin Basecamp:


Dornie at max zoom (web):


Wynyard:


Dove Lake:

[north-north-west]

Just had a look at Tasmap's website. If you can navigate to the relevant page, they're quoting $1,100 for the statewide set of 1:25,00 maps.
No, that isn't a typo.

[colinm]

Just had a look at Tasmap's website. If you can navigate to the relevant page, they're quoting $1,100 for the statewide set of 1:25,00 maps.

Well, if you can make the argument that that's not a reasonable price, then you could still apply for it under the FOI legislation, and when they refuse, take it to appeal - .gov will have to argue, in an open forum, how they arrive at the price.

Colin.

[north-north-west]

If I could afford to take it to court, I could afford the insane price they're asking for the data.

[colinm]

If I could afford to take it to court, I could afford the insane price they're asking for the data.

I must stress I haven't read the legislation for Tasmania, but here it's not a court as such, but a tribunal. Much lower key.

[Ent]

Hi

I look occasionally at Tasmap forum and best I can say on Tasmap progress is to quote Hebrews 13:8. Very convenient that a few natural disasters hit else Tasmap would have to own up as been well, Tasmap

Cheers

[sthughes]

So, now that we can get these TIFF maps, anybody know a SIMPLE way to get them on your phone? Android or iOS? When I say simple I mean just transfer the tiff to the device then it opens up without prior PC manipulation etc etc.

I found an app called PDF Maps (on Android) that is simple, but is very bare bones on features. Be nice if it would open multiple maps at the same time to create a mosaic particularly if you are near the edge of the map. Also of the two maps I purchased only one worked on this app (and some others).

[photohiker]

Maps n Tracks on IOS? I think Nik has this covered but maybe check with him.

[sthughes]

Yes, thanks that does seem to work well now. At least for one of the maps I have.

I think the other has issues in the file, but I can open it with Okmap and convert it to KMZ and then open it in Google Earth, so it can't be all bad. Maps'n'Trax sees the geotiff as uncalibrated, and simply won't import the kmz.

[north-north-west]

Wow! So they've finally made them available at a half-way reasonable price! Will wonders never cease?

[sthughes]

There is still no online shop, but you can email them to get them. I'd be highly surprised if that system didn't end up costing them money. Can you reply to at least 2 emails, process credit card details, attach and send the files all for under $2 in labour?

[tastrax]

Just remember that they are still the old scanned maps (latest paper version) - they are not the latest updated versions (for that you want the LIST topo maps which are updated on a very regular basis)