Shooting in Vic Parks

[wander]

I was back in the Howitt area for the 1st time in many years last week. Previously I have regularly found hunting dogs (very nice dogs) and vehicles with dog cages well inside the Park. A bit of a puzzle given the no dogs sign at the Park entry points. Anyhow last week we heard very clearly 2 gun shoots coming from the Speculation / Camp Creek area. We were only a couple of km down the track on the way to Lake Cobbler. Some folks might say we were mistaken but the evidence is people shoot well inside the Park.

So is it really a mute point the need for any legislation or regulatory changes to allow shooting in Parks?

[Hallu]

In cases like this, if I were you, I would note the cars' license plates, maybe take some pictures, and send the lot to Parks Victoria. If this is true, and common practice, this needs to be stopped.

[wander]

There was only one car parked at Camp Creek as we went past, later this passed us with 2 blokes in camos, the back was set up for dogs, but no dogs on board. Only circumstantial that these blokes did the shooting that we heard.

We noted 3 cars with dogs cages (no I could not see the dogs, so they could have been empty, I was busy looking at the road and driving) driving in the Park and a 4th parked at Bennies with the dog cage doors open and empty. Bennies is on the edge of the Park, right on the edge. So they could have been off doing what they were doing outside the Park. But given the fences on the properties on this stretch of road have a lot of no camping, no hunting and no shooting signs I'm wondering where they were doing what they were doing. Maybe this person keeps their back pack in the dog cage and there was never a dog in it?

Am I being hasty from one visit to assume that shooting and use of dogs in the Park is a normal state of affairs. Or was it just a one off very rare busy Friday afternoon?

[MartyGwynne]

I guess the risk of getting caught by the one ranger who looks after the park is very remote.
So I'd say they were doing the shooting - maybe practising for the coming invasion of North Korea so they can defend the country for us???????
I would not think a ranger is going to seek them out and ask them if they have dogs or guns in the NP, Im sure I would not want to ask them as some folks get very very nasty when questioned about their dodgy activities.
But all said and done I would do what Hallu said:
"In cases like this, if I were you, I would note the cars' license plates, maybe take some pictures, and send the lot to Parks Victoria. If this is true, and common practice, this needs to be stopped."

[BillV]

You can use Hounds for hunting Sambar Deer In Parks including Alpine National Parks........The Howitt area is very popular for Deer hunters.....

[dplanet]

There were at least 20 gun shoots in Werribee Gorge State Park last Sunday afternoon (about 3.00pm). All they seemed near the Eastern Viewpoint in the park .

My friend and I were on the Werribee Short Circuit, heading north to get back to the Quarry Carpark. The gun shoots were so close that we had to leave the track and go cross-country, heading east. Luckily, the forest was open and dry, so, the going was rather easy.

[wander]

You can use Hounds for hunting Sambar Deer In Parks including Alpine National Parks

Is this the case? Most curious, can you point me to the place where this is documented, I could not find it in the Vic Parks website, but it is a very messy website to get around. And if it is the case why are there still a very clear "no dog" and "no gun sign" at the entrance to the Park?

[Hallu]

Hunting is a popular winter activity, with the park open to stalking (hunting without dogs) of Sambar deer from mid-February to mid-December.

Wiki page for the Alpine NP. Apparently some details here : http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/game-hunting/ ... n-victoria but it's a lot of grey areas to check, I'm not sure if Mt. Howitt is in it. But if Wander saw a no-dog sign, I'm guessing that applies to hounds...

Regarding hunting in NPs, I'll give my opinion again : it's stupid and dangerous. NPs are a family place, supposed to be enjoyed by everyone. It's hard to enjoy walking in a supposedly wild area when you hear gunshots and fear for your safety...

[recurveron]

The hunting of Deer is allowed in quite a few of national parks in victoria, Dogs are not allowed in parks but in certain areas you can travel through park boundary's with dogs locked up. If you see people using dogs behind national park boundarys please inform rangers , and do the same for spotlighters and any other activity that contravine the rules

[madmacca]

You can use Hounds for hunting Sambar Deer In Parks including Alpine National Parks

Is this the case? Most curious, can you point me to the place where this is documented, I could not find it in the Vic Parks website, but it is a very messy website to get around. And if it is the case why are there still a very clear "no dog" and "no gun sign" at the entrance to the Park?

Hunting and game regulations fall under Department of Primary Industries, rather than Department of Sustainability and Environment - hence why you can't find it in the Parks Victoria website. [#$%^ bureaucracy]

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/game-hunting/game/deer/sambar-hunting-with-dogs/deer-hunting-locations/deer-hunting-in-eastern-victoria has a series of maps (incidentally a great series of downloadable topo maps) showing exactly where you can hunt deer, and by what methods. Sheet 41 covers the area you mention, and allows hunting without hounds from 15 Feb through 15 Dec. The map dates from 2009, so no recent changes.

Mad

[Strider]

The gun shoots were so close that we had to leave the track

Sorry but this is just asking to get shot. If you are on the track then at least you are where hunters expect you to be.

[dplanet]

There were at least 20 gun shoots in Werribee Gorge State Park last Sunday afternoon (about 3.00pm). All they seemed near the Eastern Viewpoint in the park .

My friend and I were on the Werribee Short Circuit, heading north to get back to the Quarry Carpark. The gun shoots were so close that we had to leave the track and go cross-country, heading east. Luckily, the forest was open and dry, so, the going was rather easy.

See map attached

[Earwig]

You can use Hounds for hunting Sambar Deer In Parks including Alpine National Parks........The Howitt area is very popular for Deer hunters.....

You can hunt Sambar deer in parts of Alpine National Park from 15 February to 15 December, Avon Wilderness Park from 15 February to 15 December, Baw Baw National Park from 1 May to 25 October, Lake Eildon National Park from first Saturday after Easter until 30 November, Mitchell River National Park from 15 February to 15 December. Dogs are NOT allowed. The DPI website has details and maps of the areas.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/game-hunting/game/deer/sambar-red-hog-and-fallow-deer-stalking

[BillV]

You can use Hounds for hunting Sambar Deer In Parks including Alpine National Parks........The Howitt area is very popular for Deer hunters.....

You can hunt Sambar deer in parts of Alpine National Park from 15 February to 15 December, Avon Wilderness Park from 15 February to 15 December, Baw Baw National Park from 1 May to 25 October, Lake Eildon National Park from first Saturday after Easter until 30 November, Mitchell River National Park from 15 February to 15 December. Dogs are NOT allowed. The DPI website has details and maps of the areas.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/game-hunting/game/deer/sambar-red-hog-and-fallow-deer-stalking

Yes sorry my mistake

[Kinsayder]

I agree with Hallu, I don't want guns in National Parks. If deer are such a problem I'd prefer it handled by professionals, not halfwits with the smell of last nights Woodstock still on their breath.

[BillV]

They have been hunting in Alpine national parks for years.......Fear is the problem here......

[Hallu]

Yeah because when you bring your kids to a National Park and expect quiet, you shouldn't fear to hear gunshots in the vicinity... You can't even find info on hunting the VIC parks website... How do you expect people to be in the know ?

[ryantmalone]

They have been hunting in Alpine national parks for years.......Fear is the problem here......

Australians had been giving Aboriginals the shaft for many years after the British colonized the country, does that make it right?

There is more than enough space in this country for people to hunt, rather than within heavily used areas within our national parks.

[wayno]

in nz, hunters can pretty much hunt just about anywhere in the parks but exception is made on the "great walks", no hunting within 500m of the tracks, although how you police that is beyond me, the bush is often so thick theres little way to tell where hunters are if you can't see them from the track, but certainly you shouldnt be seeing a hunter out hunting anywhere near you on a great walk.

[BillV]

You know Wayno that it illegal to shoot on formed tracks and roads in Victoria....

[recurveron]

They have been hunting in Alpine national parks for years.......Fear is the problem here......

Australians had been giving Aboriginals the shaft for many years after the British colonized the country, does that make it right?

There is more than enough space in this country for people to hunt, rather than within heavily used areas within our national parks.

If the area is heavily used the deer would not be there in any numbers and so would not interest the hunters , also most of the hunting is done during winter and the cooler months when most of the walkers and campers choose not to use the parks

[andrewa]

BillV, I didn't realise that.

I was driving up passed Sheepyard flat a few weeks ago, and was surprised to see a guy wandering along the road near Pickerings Hut with a gun slung on his shoulder, and a wife and baby in sling behind. Whilst not NP, it did not seem a reasonable place to be carrying a gun, even though he wasn't actually shooting it. Prior to that, the only other person I've seen carrying a gun was along a road in the east side of Mt Baw Baw, when I was going camping with my kids (5,3), and our yellow Labrador. A the time, I really hoped that they wouldn't mistake our Lab for a deer ( and, again this wasn't in NP).

I have no issues with shooting, although I am not interested in it. But i do think it does need to be in areas that aren't populated, to avoid "mistakes".

A

[photonaturally]

bogans with gun not= hunters.

Some people just want to discharge their firearms under the guise of hunting.
I I have no problems with hunters. I wouldl prefer to have 0% chance of getting accidentally shot over 0.5% chance.
Still. we have to learn to share with other RESPONSIBLE users of the park.

[dplanet]

They have been hunting in Alpine national parks for years.......Fear is the problem here......

Australians had been giving Aboriginals the shaft for many years after the British colonized the country, does that make it right?

There is more than enough space in this country for people to hunt, rather than within heavily used areas within our national parks.

If the area is heavily used the deer would not be there in any numbers and so would not interest the hunters , also most of the hunting is done during winter and the cooler months when most of the walkers and campers choose not to use the parks

For me, the cooler months are the time to go bushwalking.

[wander]

we have to learn to share with other RESPONSIBLE users of the park

So these would be the people who shot out the sign before the paint was dry?

[BillV]

No they wouldn't be

[recurveron]

For me, the cooler months are the time to go bushwalking.

That is why i said " most " not all . Where ever i hunt i assume that people might be around and always identify my target and am aware of my surrounds .

[Mwill301]

To me as a hunter, this conversation shows typical views of the "average" Australian bush user towards law abiding recreational hunters. Users such as Kingsayder brand hunters as quote "halfwits with the smell of last nights Woodstock still on their breath" which is generalization at its best. As with anything in life there will always be a minority of people who ruin it for all, and it seems Wander has happen to have the unfortunate experience of meeting such a crowd. I for one am absolutely dead against hunters who act like clowns and break such laws such as this group has done by shooting up the sign, yet I also find it hard to justify how the stupid actions of a few should make people be so quick to judge the other 97% or so of law abiding hunters and call for their chosen sport to become illegal when they have done nothing wrong . So I'd like to go a little in depth on my feelings towards these attitudes of hunters...

For one I as a law abiding firearm owner and hunters enjoy the bush just as much as other users on this forum. I enjoy going bush whether it be camping, hunting or fishing. I enjoy watching native wildlife aswell believe it or not and have many a "successful" hunt even if not game is shot- I just enjoy been out bush.I have always supported conservation movements in Australia and unlike how most Australians & the media portray me am not some backward thinking red neck, hell bent on destroying nature and wheeling a rifle with me everywhere I go. On the other hand I find it hard to believe that many other users of public land- of who I respect their right to their chosen sport cannot seem to view my sport in the same way.

I take great pride in putting my safety and that of other users first. I as with all other hunters that I associate with NEVER carry a round up the chamber and go out of my way to be 110% sure that my target is my chosen quarry and that my shooting field is safe. I never drink whilst around a rifle and my rifles are always unloaded in camp. Yet people still fear that they will be shot and that allowing shooting in National Parks will turn it into some sort shooting range? All I can say is hunting as been happening in places like Norway and New Zealand in National Parks for many years and in Victorian National Parks yet very few fatalities have occurred. I cannot recall a bush walker been shot in a Victorian National Park? Yet people still fear monger that we will all be in grave danger if hunting is allowed.

What many a person also does not like to mention is it was hunters who created National Parks in the first place- US President Theodore Roosevelt was a keen hunter and set about creating Yellowstone National Park, the worlds first National Park in 1877. Denali National Park in Alaska was also created by a keen sportsman/hunter Charles Sheldon. Also if it wasn't for duck hunters in Victoria lobbying for wetland protection and paying game license fees which went towards buying wetlands for protection, many a RAMSAR listed wetland would have been drained for farmland or housing estates.

If people are breaking the law such as the crowd that shot up the sign, then why not enforce the current law- they were breaking one. Why punish the majority of law abiding hunters for the actions of a few. They are already breaking a law so why would banning hunters from accessing national parks stop this crowd? Instead you will only affect the law abiding hunters who have done nothing wrong.

So to sum it all up it amazes me that in this day and age of acceptance, in a country where you're sexual orientation, skin colour, religious views, sex & cultural background should not play a part as to how you are treated within society, owning a rifle and wishing to simply go out into the outdoors to camp, hunt & fish is viewed in such bad light.

[David M]

Well said Mwill301.

Also, people, don't forget that hunters are improving the parks by destroying vermin that are not meant to be there in the first place and are damaging the parks and their native wildlife.

I would actually like to see more hunting of feral species in parks, the current control methods are not working very well or are inadequate in scope.

[neilmny]

I agree that society is quick to judge the actions of a few as typical actions of all. While this is very unfare, I think the problem lies in the fact that those that flaunt the law
are the ones that get seen and noticed.

A couple of examples.

Just after the gates opened into the King Valley some of my family members and their friends and their children were camped near Pineapple Flat.
Both the males are deer shooters and I know they are very responsible hunters.

A dogger shot a deer inside the Alpine National Park (the shooting is permitted yes) the dogging is not. Now it is a very fine line driving a deer into the national
park with dogs. The dogger also shot the deer within 100 metres of there camp which he/they had driven past down a dead end track to get to his station.
He/they then proceeded to gut the deer beside the track and leave the guts lying right beside the track not far from my families camp.
What a hairy scumbag hero he is and you wonder why people have a dim view of these morons.

I personally was at the same spot with the same friends and family last weekend.
Saturday was the last day of dogging season so these cowboys were out in force.
I personally witnessed the same practice of waiting for the dogs to bring a deer in within close proximity of our camp, only this time we had one 50 metres before and one after the camp.
Strictly speaking not illegal unless the dogs come into the national park.
There was several comings and goings of these crews during the day, the final one was they drove in with a deer hanging put of the back of the truck (such heros, Pineaple was full of families with kids),
and dressed it down the bottom of the track about 100 metres from where we were camped. On their departure there was dogs in the back of the truck in the Alpine national Park.

The answer is not in cursing the public for the unfare attitude, the answer is to weed out these *&^%$#@! who make you all look bad.