Fagus Watch 2013

[Chris]

Did Crater Lake circuit yesterday (18th). Fagus starting to turn quite nicely, looks like Anzac Day should be good.
Had a superb walk - sun, just a smidgin of light rain, snow, hail, wind, rainbow - in fact a normal April day round Crater Lake.

P4180426 CLCfagus 800p.jpg (296.85 KiB) Viewed 12802 times

[peter-robinson]

Mmm, nice. They were still very green last week

[stepbystep]

Thanks Chris, looking good. 3 days at Cradle v. soooon

[Davo1]

Thanks for the update and pics.
We had planned for next week, so hopefully the weather holds.

[ryantmalone]

Thanks for the update. Am planning to spend a night up there at Scott Kilvert and Waterfall Valley over Anzac Day Weekend. Looking like its going to be a good one!

[wander]

Is there any Fagus on the route between Hobart and Bothwell?

[Strider]

Is there any Fagus on the route between Hobart and Bothwell?

I've never seen any up that way. Wrong side of Tyler's Line I would think, but it's certainly possible!

[Stibb]

I've never seen any up that way. Wrong side of Tyler's Line I would think, but it's certainly possible!

I'm no expert on this but would not Mt Field NP also be on one "wrong" side of the line too..? But, there is certainly lots of dolerite around...and fagus...

[pazzar]

Is there any Fagus on the route between Hobart and Bothwell?

I've never seen any up that way. Wrong side of Tyler's Line I would think, but it's certainly possible!

I wouldn't imagine everyone is familiar with Tyler's Line Strider!

I reckon you would have to trek up to Pine Lake or further west of Great Lake to find fagus near Bothwell. Probably would take 45 minutes extra to find some.

[Strider]

Is there any Fagus on the route between Hobart and Bothwell?

I've never seen any up that way. Wrong side of Tyler's Line I would think, but it's certainly possible!

I wouldn't imagine everyone is familiar with Tyler's Line Strider!

I reckon you would have to trek up to Pine Lake or further west of Great Lake to find fagus near Bothwell. Probably would take 45 minutes extra to find some.

Tyler (1992) described a line (“Tyler’s Line”, first used to describe rotifer
distribution;for example, Shiel et al. 1989) in Tasmania across which significant
changes in the environment occur within a few kilometres. Tasmanian water bodies
display distinct differences either side of this line, which lies aslant the 146th meridian
(Figure 1.1). West of Tyler’s Line the landscape is characterised by temperate
Figure 1.1 Location of Tyler’s Line and Lagoon of Islands.6
rainforest on Precambrian, Cambrian and Ordovician siliceous rocks. High rainfall
and strong west and south-west winds in the region bring marine salts from offshore.
As a result the lakes in the area have ionic proportions near world average sea water
(WASW; Tyler 1992). The waters are stained the colour of tea, with red wavelengths
penetrating the furthest, although only to a depth of about 2 m. In contrast, the
landscape east of Tyler’s Line is characterised by wet and dry sclerophyll forests on
Jurassic dolerite. Lower rainfall and weathering of dolerite creates a range of
salinities, with ion concentrations depending on the balance between rainfall and
evaporation. The ionic composition of the water is similar to that of world average
fresh water (WAFW; Tyler 1992). The waters are generally clear, with a euphotic
depth of up to 10 m. The blue-green wavelengths penetrate to this depth. The
dichotomy associated with Tyler’s Line appears to extend to the fauna and
microfauna, and has been found for frogs, caddisflies, stoneflies, molluscs, crayfish,
rotifers and algae (Tyler 1992).

[pazzar]

I thought Tyler's was further east than that!

[Stibb]

But how is Tyler's line relevant to fagus? It clearly growth on both quartzite and dolerite rock (ie on both sides of the line)...

[pazzar]

I'm not an expert, but I thought it was to do with the pH of the soil. The soils are generally more alkaline in the east, meaning some species such as fagus do not grow.

[Strider]

But how is Tyler's line relevant to fagus? It clearly growth on both quartzite and dolerite rock (ie on both sides of the line)...

Might not be exactly relevant, but I think you'll find a rough relationship there - mostly likely relating to differences in precipitation.

I thought Tyler's was further east than that!

So did I, and I'm sure it was taught that way when I did the Ecology of Tasmania unit at UTAS a few years back. But this is the only picture I could find!

[Stibb]

I'm not an expert, but I thought it was to do with the pH of the soil. The soils are generally more alkaline in the east, meaning some species such as fagus do not grow.

Yes, but, put simply, the pH depends on the underlying rock. Dolerite rock produces (by weathering) more alkaline soils while quartzite more acidic and Tyler's line mark the the demarkation of these differing rocks (it's a bit more complicated than this but it is one of the fundamental factors). And surely fagus grow on both rocks types

Strider.. hm maybe, but i'm not convinced. "rough relationship"???
Not sure which side you mean would be the "right" side of the line thats all
Never mind, lets see more pictures of fagus wherever they chose to grow...

[walkinTas]

I might not have Tyler's Line perfect, but you can play with this file in GE -->

The attachment Fagus_.kmz is no longer available

It looks like this.

FagusMap.png (320.9 KiB) Viewed 12793 times

Hope it helps.

[Erica]

Great pics! I'm hoping to go for a walk with my mum and have a look at some fagus over Anzac Day weekend. We're based in Launnie and I was hoping to go somewhere other than Cradle, anyone have any suggestions? Unfortunately we only have one night.

[Miyata610]

I might not have Tyler's Line perfect, but you can play with this file in GE -->

Fagus_.kmz

Hope it helps.

What's the pink?

[walkinTas]

Hi Phil, I can't find the original source of the map (so my apology to the original source for not properly acknowledging you). There is an old topic and there was a map from Parks, but that link isn't working. And, I'm not sure the above map was from that source anyway.

To answer your question, the pink and red are Nothofagus gunnii. As I understand it, the darker the colour the heavier the population. You'll see most of the pink is around the Walls and on down to lake St. Claire, Mt. Field and Mt. Wellington. The darkest colour is around Mt. Ried and Mt. Dundas. The green is either Nothofagus cunninghamii or rain forest distribution. Also, I'm not sure how old the data is, but any fires in any of the shaded areas would reduce the distribution of N.gunnii.

[Strider]

Well I was partly correct. Tyler's line turns out a good predictor of Fagus - but the wrong one!

Where is a N. gunnii around Mt Wellington. Can't say I've ever come across it. Am I blind?

[walkinTas]

A lot of Mt Wellington has been burnt hasn't it? As I said, the data might be old and gunnii doesn't regenerate after fire. Just guessing! And Tyler's line looks like it could benefit from having the bottom kicked a bit further east. But, my placement might have it wrong. I just went from the same document you sourced above.

[walkinTas]

The PWS website page - http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/?base=3244 - has a link to a distribution map. The link is just above the last image.

Jane Keble-WIlliams doctorate paper has a similar map to the one I used above (see page 68).

Putting the two together I'd say the distribution of the fagus I'm showed on the GE map above is too generous.

[biggbird]

Great pics! I'm hoping to go for a walk with my mum and have a look at some fagus over Anzac Day weekend. We're based in Launnie and I was hoping to go somewhere other than Cradle, anyone have any suggestions? Unfortunately we only have one night.

You could always try to make it down to Mt Field for the night, plenty up around Tarn Shelf!

[stepbystep]

Or Murchison with a camp at Lake Sandra, or The Tyndalls with a camp at Lake Tyndall or Symphony. Both excellent walks with few punters.

[Erica]

Thanks guys, I had been thinking about Murchison... either as a day trip or overnighter. Is the camping at Lake Sandra good stepbystep?

[stepbystep]

Is the camping at Lake Sandra good stepbystep?

Not sure Erica I have only daywalked Murchison, looks good here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5268&p=64817&hilit=+lake+sandra+#p64817

Camping on The Tyndalls is fabulous but it looks pretty windy over the next week, Sandra would provide more protection.

[biggbird]

^Was going to suggest Murchison, but couldn't remember how much Fagus was around there! I think we went in more or less the dead of Winter though, meaning that most of it had dropped off and hence, I didn't remember it Murchison is a fantastic walk, and I'd love to have the chance to stay at Lake Sandra, it looks beautiful.

The Tyndall plateau was lovely too, at least before the snow, rain, hail and wind came in... Definitely would listen to SBS and try somewhere more sheltered if the forecast isn't looking great!

That's the disappointing thing about the West coast; so many beautiful places, so little good weather to appreciate them in

Be sure to check back in and leave us some photos of wherever you do end up!

[pazzar]

Thanks guys, I had been thinking about Murchison... either as a day trip or overnighter. Is the camping at Lake Sandra good stepbystep?

There is a nice lake with good camping just off to the right of the track near the summit. It is an easy scramble down there, and is fairly well sheltered. Just don't head down the cliff lines too early, it's better to almost head right past the lake, then sidle across and down the obvious gully.

murchison camp.jpg (74.82 KiB) Viewed 12587 times

The green line is the approximate track position, and the red is the way I went down roughly.

[Erica]

Thanks guys. I think Murchison is definitely on the cards, will have to decide later on in the week if we actually camp or just go for a day trip and stay somewhere on the west coast.

I see from a post somewhere the 1:100 000 map is Sophia, anyone know which 1:25 000 covers the area?

[pazzar]

Tullah and Selina I think