The Abels...

[Doonish]

Then focus on updating the track notes & maps, and put it out as an e-book first. Track notes & maps aren't exactly what you call "detailed" anyway.

You have to remember that like most Tasmanian publishing, this is a labour of love; there is little financial return that can be expected for the publishers, so we are dependent on their time, energy and desires. Bill may well have a new project on the go and find that is taking up his spare time.

Track notes may not be immensely detailed, but they do need to be correct. That's a hell of a job. The maps were improved for the second volume; if I were reissuing the book, I'd probably want to include higher quality maps.

Ebook publication and distribution isn't quite as simple as some believe it to be, but this may well be a feasible option down the track.

At this stage, I think it's just important to be grateful for Bill's efforts to provide the track notes that we have and be hopeful that we see an update. Christmas? Maybe, but maybe not.

[Hallu]

The truth is I'm not sure anybody has ever tried to climb an Abel based on Bill's notes. Let's be honest : it's a beautiful book because of the pictures, the design, the writing. But the tracknotes and maps just give you a general idea, and are pretty much useless. That, and the fact that it's always out of print contribute to the unfortunate "elitist" reputation of those otherwise very nice books.

[stepbystep]

The truth is I'm not sure anybody has ever tried to climb an Abel based on Bill's notes. Let's be honest : it's a beautiful book because of the pictures, the design, the writing. But the tracknotes and maps just give you a general idea, and are pretty much useless. That, and the fact that it's always out of print contribute to the unfortunate "elitist" reputation of those otherwise very nice books.

Strange post Hallu, the tracknotes are deliberately general but if heeded are extremely useful. I know of plenty of people that use them. I have my copies sitting in the car, just in case I've got a spare hour or 4 on a roadtrip. I'd love to see vol1 re-done in the style of 2 but I think Doonish has nailed it, they are designed for a tiny market and I doubt Bill has made a cracker from them.

[Hallu]

Well it wasn't gonna be my most popular post, but I stand by it. I think it would sell more if it had more detailed notes/maps. It's a strange book to be honest : it's designed like a coffee table book (and priced too), but on a smaller format, on one side, and on the other side it wants to be bushwalker friendly with notes and maps. Either make a big book with more photos, or write more detailed notes and maps.

[Doonish]

The truth is I'm not sure anybody has ever tried to climb an Abel based on Bill's notes. Let's be honest : it's a beautiful book because of the pictures, the design, the writing. But the tracknotes and maps just give you a general idea, and are pretty much useless. That, and the fact that it's always out of print contribute to the unfortunate "elitist" reputation of those otherwise very nice books.

Well it's not a function of being "always out of print" - Bill printed a pile in the mid-90s, and about a year and a half ago he ran out. Simple as that. Copies were thin on the ground before this, but only because bookshops had largely stopped stocking them - when I found out they were still available five or six years ago, we always kept it in stock. I believe the launch of volume 2 provided renewed interest.

The track notes are not comprehensive, but they are helpful, particularly for identifying the start of the track. As SBS says, I think plenty of people have used the notes alongside other resources as a guide to more obscure tracks, particularly for those which don't crop up in other guides (i.e. most of them). I certainly have. They're no worse than many guidebooks, and even if they are only general notes, they obviously still need to be accurate.

It's a strange book to be honest : it's designed like a coffee table book (and priced too), but on a smaller format, on one side, and on the other side it wants to be bushwalker friendly with notes and maps.

The two volumes have traditionally been a similar price to Chapman's guides. The price reflects small economies of scale in niche book publishing. I do agree that volume 2 included more content that wasn't directly track-note oriented; but hey, so does Sprawson's Overland Track guide. It's not that unusual.

[biggbird]

Have to agree with both Doonish and SBS here, I own both volumes and often use the track notes within, at least to find the start of the track if nothing else. Generally try to check other sources for those in Vol. 1, as due to age some of the descriptions can be a little outdated, but what information is in there is usually quite useful and gives plenty of guidance.

Anyway, great news that a reprint is a possibility! If Bill needs any help, I'd be happy to climb some Abels for the cause

[doogs]

Well it wasn't gonna be my most popular post..

..or the cleverest you have written
I can't be bothered to find the required quote, but I am sure if you read the preamble in the books it will explain exactly why the notes are vague. Some mountains have very good track notes in the book as there is a recognized and maintained track to the top of the peak, others have no track and to avoid one forming the notes are suitably vague. I like the fact that a lot of the peaks in Tasmania don't have tracks and it is a case of choose your own adventure, it gives an almost true wilderness feel to the walks. Some people don't understand this and think there should be a track up all mountains I just can't agree with that viewpoint. I grew up in Scotland and there is a track up every hill minor or large and we Scots have the cheek to claim them as wilderness areas!!
I am loving Tasmanian walking, loving the beauty, loving the different moods of the place and loving the vague track notes

[ILUVSWTAS]

Interesting reading....

I've climbed 120 Abels and have found the books to be beyond value.

[tibboh]

Interesting reading....

I've climbed 120 Abels and have found the books to be beyond value.

+1 (not the 120 Abels bit)

[tigercat]

They are fantastic books, very inspiring with beautiful photos and descriptions. Also very useful track notes in conjunction with 1;25000 maps and other sources of track info.
I wish there were similar volumes for peaks under 1100 metres.

[Hallu]

Well I wanted to for my trip there in Easter, but the notes were so vague I didn't even bother.

[Nuts]

Hallu, lets see.

I have both volumes. I haven't done anywhere near as much peakbagging as others here, which I guess is what they're geared towards... many walks needing more experience to start with. It seems from the walks iv'e read through that it keeps a very appropriate balance (ie not enough to get less experienced into trouble). If this is 'elitist', I think that is fine.

When I walked in to Mt Sedgwick I didn't even think to check the guide.. I grabbed a map and thought the obvious route from the Tyndalls was.. well.. obvious. I did see another member had taken a similar line and asked for thoughts.. Later I saw that the route I took was very similar to Bills notes. That's great, but even if it wasn't, maybe my route worked better

To me this re-enforces the balance to keep concise notes vague.. a book that is handy but if you couldn't work it out then probably shouldn't be there anyway? (just from the few walks iv'e read though to do, or have been in the area..) Same with other guidebooks, I never had Chapmans books until after i'd done the track type walks mentioned.. Others with more off-track experience might have a clearer idea with Bill's book overall. The hints..the photo angles.. or just knowing someone has 'made it' might give some reassurance or save some bushwacking even with vague notes i'd say??

[Hallu]

My point is, if you're gonna be so vague, don't bother writing track notes : just the map, and with the saved space add more pictures, and make it more like a coffee table book. That would actually make the walks more appealing to me, and push me to do them. As it is, it's too small with tiny font and too much text. I'd accept it if it was detailed notes, but it's not, hence my criticism.

[north-north-west]

Well I wanted to for my trip there in Easter, but the notes were so vague I didn't even bother.

There are plenty of the Abels that have tracks and those are clearly shown, together with enough detail to find the start of said tracks. Which should have been a good start for you, as I believe you've said more than once that you don't walk off track . . .

The worst thing about the books is how much of the info - especially in Vol I - is out of date. Not to mention the varying attitudes of the different writers as to what constitutes 'scrub' and 'easy' scrambling.

[stepbystep]

My point is, if you're gonna be so vague, don't bother writing track notes : just the map, and with the saved space add more pictures, and make it more like a coffee table book. That would actually make the walks more appealing to me, and push me to do them. As it is, it's too small with tiny font and too much text. I'd accept it if it was detailed notes, but it's not, hence my criticism.

We have a plethora of beautiful coffee table books, if you don't like The Abels so be it, we get it, sell your copy and make 2 people happy..!!

You have had the reasons for the vague notes spelled out to you in several ways multiple times. For someone that seems to be passionate about the preservation of the environment you just don't seem to get it.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to give detailed noted to all of the Abels without putting certain areas at risk and for many of the untracked ones the best route would require a very accurate GPS track.

[ILUVSWTAS]

My point is, if you're gonna be so vague, don't bother writing track notes : just the map, and with the saved space add more pictures, and make it more like a coffee table book. That would actually make the walks more appealing to me, and push me to do them. As it is, it's too small with tiny font and too much text. I'd accept it if it was detailed notes, but it's not, hence my criticism.

We have a plethora of beautiful coffee table books, if you don't like The Abels so be it, we get it, sell your copy and make 2 people happy..!!

You have had the reasons for the vague notes spelled out to you in several ways multiple times. For someone that seems to be passionate about the preservation of the environment you just don't seem to get it.
It's IMPOSSIBLE to give detailed noted to all of the Abels without putting certain areas at risk and for many of the untracked ones the best route would require a very accurate GPS track.

Stick to "content removed by poster"

[corvus]

Post deleted

Last edited by corvus on Thu 09 May, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[stu]

Having also done a lot of the Abels, many with ILUVSWTAS and also regularly walking with SBS and Doogs I'd totally agree with their and others comments. If you haven't gained the necessary experience to be doing vague walks then vague notes are going to be worth diddly squat to you. Yes, a lot of the content is now outdated (Vol. 1), but again, with the accumulated skills and experience you find another route yourself, which Nuts has alluded to.

I'd suggest, if you are genuinely interested in Abel bagging, working your way through the more obvious tracked summits, of which there are many, and with time the harder ones will become easier to attain as you become more attuned with our wild and harsh geography and climate.

As far as doing all Abels in a single push - ludicrous. Only a few people (at best - more likely only one person) have done every Abel, many require extended and concerted effort in their own right.

Bill and co have done an amazing job, Vol. 1 served as my major inspiration for remote area walking.

[corvus]

post deleted

[Taurë-rana]

I agree with all the others, the Abels 1 is a great book, and for bushwalkers, not tourists, unlike certain other publications. I use it a lot and find it invaluable. I think if people find that it's not useful to them, perhaps they are not ready to be doing these walks. Step by step track notes can cause problems - they lay everything out so clearly that anyone thinks they can do the walks without the experience they need.
I haven't had any problems doing Abels walks using the book, but I can imagine there might be a few that need updating. Particularly where there have been recent forestry operations

[pazzar]

I will join in agreement with what most of you have already said. I find the books to be very useful. I do usually double check notes when it comes to Volume 1, just to be sure. I know some of the NE Abels have altered access now. The books are permanently kept in my car, like SBS, just in case of a detour on a road trip. I actually find detailed notes often harder to follow, as soon as you come across something unexpected you get thrown off. I prefer the notes being vague so I can make my own way instead of having to read it as if the notes are the only way to go. If you need someone to hold your hand, get someone to hold your hand, don't expect a book to do it all for you!

[stepbystep]

I stumbled across this just now

http://www.bbc.com/travel/feature/20130 ... tain-quest

That could help Bill sell some extra books
I believe the author is a member of the LWC(?)

[walkinTas]

Does anybody know of an online resource for the Abel peaks. Even just a list of names and locations.

As SoB said, they're on the wiki.
Here is the GE file.

The_Abels.kmz

[walkinTas]

That could help Bill sell some extra books

Great read! I read this article recently from 1884 making a similar comparison.

Based on the Scottish requirement of "above 914m (3,000ft)" and based on the Abel requirement of "separated from other mountains by a drop of at least 150m on all sides", there are a number of peaks in Tasmania that could be added to a second list - "lesser Abels". They would be just as challenging or more challenging than some of the Abels (e.g. Center Star)

[tasadam]

The Abels Volume 1 reprint discussion here - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14020