Sleeping Bag Temp Rating

[DannyS]

Hello this is my first post so please excuse me if it's a little disorderly.

I'll be doing some hiking around Europe in October to December, it's going to be cold, temps down to around -10C. I purchased a Western Mountaineering Antelope sleeping bag which is rated to -15C, upon checking the bag I see that the down is positioned mainly in the top half(possibly 70% of the down), this is obviously to support people who sleep on their backs. However I'm a side sleeper and I'll need to migrate the down to the bottom half so it is a 50/50 ratio, my question is will this lower the expected temp rating of the bag?

I can still change this bag for a warmer rated bag if necessary.

Thanks for any help,

Danny

[roysta]

I would go with the Antelope.
I had the Versalite (rated -12) in -8 conditions last week and it was excellent.
Take a liner and regulate your clothing and you'll be fine.

[Moondog55]

Don't forget to buy a decent mattress

[Strider]

Have you emailed Western Mountaineering with this query?

[Moondog55]

Have you emailed Western Mountaineering with this query?

Can you do that? I looked for a contact electronic address for my inquiry and couldn't find one

[Strider]

Have you emailed Western Mountaineering with this query?

Can you do that? I looked for a contact electronic address for my inquiry and couldn't find one

Right you are! Perhaps one of the dealers could assist?

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/in ... lia&step=3

[DannyS]

Firstly thanks for the replies,
Roysta I tossed back and forth with the Versalite for a long time.

Moondog55, I bought a large Neotherme Xtherme so I'm confident that will do the job.

Strider that's an excellent idea, I need to resolve this quickly so I'm going to call their contact number later this evening, if you are interested I'll post their response here later.

Thanks again everyone!

DannyS

[roysta]

Have you emailed Western Mountaineering with this query?

Can you do that? I looked for a contact electronic address for my inquiry and couldn't find one

They don't have an email address but if you wanted to phone them you could on 0011 1 (408) 287-8944.
They're 19 hours behind us.

[DannyS]

Have you emailed Western Mountaineering with this query?

Can you do that? I looked for a contact electronic address for my inquiry and couldn't find one

They don't have an email address but if you wanted to phone them you could on 0011 1 (408) 287-8944.
They're 19 hours behind us.

Thanks Roysta I was going to call tonight but with the time difference I'll have to wait till tomorrow morning, thanks for the number.

DannyS

[roysta]

Danny, the fact that you have the Neoair Xtherm as well, just about clinches it for mine.
I don't think you'll be sending the Antelope back.
Going up to something like the Puma would be overkill.
On those really cold nights go to bed with a range of clothing on and strip them off where necessary and you'll find your comfort points.

[DannyS]

Roysta I think your right, I'm going to call them anyway just to know the workings but I'm starting to think its enough.

Thanks Roysta

DannyS

[DannyS]

So this is just for those who are interested, I spoke with the guy at Western Mountaineering, he said that their bags are designed for back or front sleepers thus the fill ratio top and bottom. Being a side sleeper and moving the down to a 50/50 ratio will cause a problem and he recommends a overfill of the bag.

Danny

[wayno]

cool. so what do you think you will do?

[Orion]

I have a WM Antelope and I am predominantly a side sleeper. It's the bag I would personally take for -10°C conditions.
I also have a -6°C bag (WM Ultralight) and a -18°C bag (WM Puma) and a homemade quilt that's good to about 0°C.
So I can choose.

I find that I usually roll within the bag, at least to some extent, so that the top is still mostly on top.

[DannyS]

cool. so what do you think you will do?

Hi Wayno I was thinking to get the overfill, but I just noticed Orion's response so I'll try to get some info from him first, then make the best decision from that?

[DannyS]

I have a WM Antelope and I am predominantly a side sleeper. It's the bag I would personally take for -10°C conditions.
I also have a -6°C bag (WM Ultralight) and a -18°C bag (WM Puma) and a homemade quilt that's good to about 0°C.
So I can choose.

I find that I usually roll within the bag, at least to some extent, so that the top is still mostly on top.

Hi Orion, when you sleep on your side do you move the bag(Antelope) with you?
Have you shifted some of the down to the bottom of the Bag?

[DannyS]

Sorry Orion you already answered the question regarding rolling within the bag, the guy at WM also suggested this to be a problem due to it changing the shape of the bag and "creating a cavity" as he described it. I'm gathering you haven't experienced any problems with this?
Because you are rolling within the bag you obviously don't cinch the hood around your face, do you have a system to maintain warmth in the upper neck and head area?

[wayno]

it might depend how you turn on your side, if you're spooning you'll be more likely to turn the bag with you than if you are just rolling onto your side straight. what happens with your current bags danny? do they roll with you? when you turn on your side? do you wake up and find the bag has rolled?

[Orion]

Danny, like I said I usually roll within the bag for the most part. That does create some conflict when fully cinched into the hood (it's hard to breath through your ear), but I can also sleep on my back part of the time. The bag has continuous baffles so I suppose I could move the down around but I haven't felt the need to do that.

It's too bad you can't take one of these nice but expensive bags for a test drive instead of asking some guy in California about it.

It's hard to go too far wrong. Modern sleeping bags are so nice. If you're really worried about being cold get a heavier bag. I think the Kodiak is the next colder rated bag at -18°C. Geez, I just noticed that the Puma MF is rated to -32°C! That's quite a bit different from the old collarless Puma I own, which is still a very nice bag. Technology marches on.

[DannyS]

Danny, like I said I usually roll within the bag for the most part. That does create some conflict when fully cinched into the hood (it's hard to breath through your ear), but I can also sleep on my back part of the time. The bag has continuous baffles so I suppose I could move the down around but I haven't felt the need to do that.

It's too bad you can't take one of these nice but expensive bags for a test drive instead of asking some guy in California about it.

It's hard to go too far wrong. Modern sleeping bags are so nice. If you're really worried about being cold get a heavier bag. I think the Kodiak is the next colder rated bag at -18°C. Geez, I just noticed that the Puma MF is rated to -32°C! That's quite a bit different from the old collarless Puma I own, which is still a very nice bag. Technology marches on.

Thanks for your help Orion, as I do feel the cold I'm thinking I'll return the bag and get it overfilled. Also I have the bag here and I know it fits me well, going through the process of researching another bag isn't appealing

[Strider]

I'm thinking I'll return the bag and get it overfilled.

If you let them know in advance they might be able to arrange another bag with overfill as a direct swap + the difference. Rather than stuffing around waiting for the specific bag you currently have to have an overfill added to it.

[DannyS]

Yeah that's a good idea Strider, I'll call them tonight and see what they can do.
Cheers.

[Hermione]

as I do feel the cold I'm thinking I'll return the bag and get it overfilled.

Hey Danny,
Please update us if you do end up getting overfill. I have a WM Antelope too and I as a side sleeper and general thrasher I now wish I'd got overfill at the time, otherwise a great bag though.

[DannyS]

as I do feel the cold I'm thinking I'll return the bag and get it overfilled.

Hey Danny,
Please update us if you do end up getting overfill. I have a WM Antelope too and I as a side sleeper and general thrasher I now wish I'd got overfill at the time, otherwise a great bag though.

Hi Hermione I contacted the retailer regarding overfilling the Antelope, he told me that you can only special order overfilled bags, in other words they are overfilled while being produced at the factory. They also suggested the only other way is to have it overfilled by an after market outlet, there is at least one of these outlets that I know of in Australia that will add down to a pre manufactured product.
So I've returned the bag and will decide on either a special order or a different bag?

[stry]

I think that there is risk of over thinking some of this stuff. I'm fortunate because after many years I can pretty well tell from physical examination and a check of the specs (not necessarily the temp rating) how a bag will work for me. The comfort rating, not the limit of comfort, is the one that is closest to my needs most of the time. I like to sleep in a thermal top, boxers and socks. I then have the extra clothing option available to deal with unexpected cold weather, injury. whatever.

I have couple of WM bags as well as couple of the older one planets. Being scrawny, I like the reduced internal space in the old OP bags and in some of the WM bags. The roomier dimensions common in bags now seem to create dead/cold spots for me. I have handled, but not slept in, standard fill WM bags. My WM bags were ordered with overfill from the factory. For me, the overfill slightly improves the general feel and loft of the bag. Not sure how much it increases the warmth, probably a couple of degrees.

A bit wordy,but I'm getting there

I am a side sleeper. After much practice I am able to turn within the bag. The extra fill on top of the WM bags works fine for me, although I was initially sceptical. I have been pleasantly surprised at how well my Apache has dealt with some very cold nights - sleeping on my side - no cold back - no drafts.

Neck muffs appear to be much plumper than in early times and this means that I do not need to cinch the hood/neck tight to get a good seal. In recent times I have been wearing a silk balaclava on cold nights and this works beautifully (for me) with the neck/hood simply snugged up a little.

Problem with going past the Antelope (to say the WM Lynx, or the OP Winterlight) is that you will end up with a pretty bulky item in your pack. Curiously, the WMs seem to me to be a whisker bulkier when stuffed that the OP equivalents.

You have plenty of time to make the right decision for yourself, and the trip sounds great! Enjoy!

[DannyS]

I think that there is risk of over thinking some of this stuff. I'm fortunate because after many years I can pretty well tell from physical examination and a check of the specs (not necessarily the temp rating) how a bag will work for me. The comfort rating, not the limit of comfort, is the one that is closest to my needs most of the time. I like to sleep in a thermal top, boxers and socks. I then have the extra clothing option available to deal with unexpected cold weather, injury. whatever.

I have couple of WM bags as well as couple of the older one planets. Being scrawny, I like the reduced internal space in the old OP bags and in some of the WM bags. The roomier dimensions common in bags now seem to create dead/cold spots for me. I have handled, but not slept in, standard fill WM bags. My WM bags were ordered with overfill from the factory. For me, the overfill slightly improves the general feel and loft of the bag. Not sure how much it increases the warmth, probably a couple of degrees.

A bit wordy,but I'm getting there

I am a side sleeper. After much practice I am able to turn within the bag. The extra fill on top of the WM bags works fine for me, although I was initially sceptical. I have been pleasantly surprised at how well my Apache has dealt with some very cold nights - sleeping on my side - no cold back - no drafts.

Neck muffs appear to be much plumper than in early times and this means that I do not need to cinch the hood/neck tight to get a good seal. In recent times I have been wearing a silk balaclava on cold nights and this works beautifully (for me) with the neck/hood simply snugged up a little.

Problem with going past the Antelope (to say the WM Lynx, or the OP Winterlight) is that you will end up with a pretty bulky item in your pack. Curiously, the WMs seem to me to be a whisker bulkier when stuffed that the OP equivalents.

You have plenty of time to make the right decision for yourself, and the trip sounds great! Enjoy!

Hi Stry thanks for the input, it sounds like you have a lot of experience which is great for making clear choices in gear selection, unfortunately I'm new to those kinds of temps and the trip is starting to look like it will include some climbing up the Alps which is also new to me. I think most times when I move into unknown environments there is a tendency to get nervy and start to over think as you stated . I would like to have your experience, make a choice and be done with it!

[DannyS]

Just to add, you can't put an old head on young shoulders, not that I'm young, but my experience certainly is. What to do

[roysta]

I bought a OP bag 5 years ago and the stitching was so flimsy it came adrift and the down went everywhere.
For me to to rectify the problem was going to cost $300.
Needless to say it was time to move on..... I did, to WM and now I have three of their bags.
I don't think I'll make the OP mistake again.

[stry]

Danny, I may have overlooked the obvious here, but I can find no reference to what you will be using as a roof - tent ? lodge? Alpine hut?.

Some of the European alpine trekking accommodation is pretty flash by Australian standards, and outside temps of -10c would be no problem to those cosily set up inside. They often have heating and all sorts of comfy stuff !.

If you're not sure what you will be staying in perhaps a little investigation of that aspect of your trip may help the decision making, and possibly save you some money and some weight.

[Orion]

... I contacted the retailer regarding overfilling the Antelope, he told me that you can only special order overfilled bags, in other words they are overfilled while being produced at the factory.

I had my first WM Ultralite overfilled a number of years after I had bought it. I mailed it directly to Western Mountaineering and they charged me $10 per ounce of down, plus shipping. No labor charge. I guess it must be easy to open up a bag and shoot in a little down. I only had two ounces added to the footbox to make spring ski tours a little less chilly.

So does Western no longer offer this service unless you're buying a brand new bag? On their website they list Antelope overfill as 3 oz. / $39.