how cold weather kills

[wayno]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/ca ... to-tragedy

Winter 2009. The frozen bodies of Te Papa boss Seddon Bennington and his friend Rosie Jackson are found on an exposed ridge.

Within cellphone coverage and close to a hut, they died on a day when less prepared trampers lived.

[Strider]

No means of contact, no compass, no tent. I think being unprepared was a much bigger factor than cold weather here.

[wayno]

yup and if it wasnt cold with bad visibility, they wouldnt have died either. less margin for error in the cold

[GPSGuided]

Tragic! Not a nice way to leave this world. Surprised that given their experiences, they had no compass?

[wayno]

i saw a diagram somewhere that explained the range of people you get in the outdoor. confidence versus ability... when confidence outstrips their competence in the outdoors you get situations like this, he started out not using navigation devices and he got away with it all his life and saw no reason to change, he got through through sheer willpower and effort
in nz you have clear geographic features of valleys and mountains that can help your own navigation a certain extent.
he got through on his luck and wits and he finally ran out of luck.
he was also supremely confident in bad weather, too confident in the end. ironically he used common sense when taking kids into the outdoors and protected them from over reaching their abilities...
i know the area well where he was tramping, , its a common area to get lost , i did a complete 360 on the tops up there on a well defined ridge that split into two parallel spurs i and a whole group i was with despite getting seperated made the same mistake and just moved from one spur to the other and came back along the parallel spur...
other people regularly take wrong turns up there in bad visibility when the ridge broadens out to become more featureless,.

[GPSGuided]

Wayno: You are scaring me on my Mt Taranaki holiday plans. Local knowledge is so important and NZ's lay of the land is very different to what we have here in NSW. Caution and extra caution required.

[wayno]

how high are you going on mt taranaki? gets pretty icy with avalanche risk at this time of year at the top. taranaki is the north islands deadliest mountain
if you're on the round the mountain track its straight forward unless the rain gets heavy for a lengthy period.

http://www.avalanche.net.nz/Forecasts/region.asp?a=6

[bailz66]

Really good read, thanks for posting that.

Going to be hiking in the alpine areas in Victoria again in a few weeks time so a reminder about the dangers is always good.

GPS - Check
Map and Compass - Check
Shelter with redundency - Check
Group of 4+ - Check
Warm clothing - Check
Warm sleeping setup - Check
Mobile Phone Access - Check
Epirb - Possibly get one of these

[GPSGuided]

No winter, over-snow/ice walks for me. Only preliminary planning at this stage for the family summer holiday. No specific route or schedule but just looking at all the options. Mt Taranaki and surrounding area just looked so tempting on maps and in photos, no ideas on its deadly nature. Thanks for the pointer. Will take heed.

Was just chatting with my neighbour yesterday on their recent Mt Fuji climb. I thought I could do similar but much closer to home, on Mt Taranaki.

[wayno]

taranaki is notorious for the weather changing fast... gets very heavy rain, three trips i planned that never happened ended up having bad weather at the time i'd planned going , different times of the year
above the bushline the wind comes straight in from the tasman, nothing to slow it down until it hits the mountain...

[GPSGuided]

So are you suggesting the north-east sector is better sheltered? I haven't had a chance to look at it in great detail but with your comments, maybe I'll need backup plans. Will obviously need to check on the weather conditions in early-mid Jan. Fingers crossed.

[wayno]

no side is better in bad weather....

[Strider]

Epirb - Possibly get one of these

Recommend you look at a PLB instead. EPIRBs are quite bulky and heavy as they are designed for maritime usage (where a minimum 48 hours battery life is mandated), whereas a PLB will fit in your pocket. I recently bought an ACR ResQlink+ and am still amazed that a device this compact has the potential to save lives

[Ellobuddha]

Out of interest, do the ACR ResQlink have any specific coding or similar for Australian area?

I would like to get one and they are a lot cheaper overseas. Dont want to get an overseas model if its a relevant issue. Sorry I havent researched it myself, I just thought Id ask off hand.

Thanks,
EB

[Strider]

Out of interest, do the ACR ResQlink have any specific coding or similar for Australian area?

I would like to get one and they are a lot cheaper overseas. Dont want to get an overseas model if its a relevant issue. Sorry I havent researched it myself, I just thought Id ask off hand.

Thanks,
EB

Yes each unit is coded for its country of use. Sending you a PM now!

[GPSGuided]

I would like to get one and they are a lot cheaper overseas. Dont want to get an overseas model if its a relevant issue. Sorry I havent researched it myself, I just thought Id ask off hand.

Check this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13793

Unless you have an address in the country of purchase (device coded to that country), you'll have trouble registering the unit in another country eg. Australia. So this is an item you should buy local to gain all the desired benefits.

[bernieq]

So this is an item you should buy local

Just to be clear – that’s local to where you live (not to where you are going to use the PLB).

So, bailz66, as you’re Victorian, buy a PLB in Australia. You can then register it on the AMSA (Australian) website and use it anywhere in the world.

[wayno]

http://www.topomap.co.nz/NZTopoMap/nz43 ... Wellington

so they were travelling north to south, got to bridge peak and went east instead of continuing south, either to get shelter from the wind on the side of the mountain or because they went the wrong way and decided to get shelter anyway.
friend of mine once had to crawl part of the way from kime hut to get past bridge peak it was so windy, he couldnt stand up... the wind often funnels through the cook strait area and surrounding mountains at high speed.
its pretty common to have to abort a trip in this area because of the wind...

[GPSGuided]

Thanks for the map. It's all so close to townships and barely 10-15mins flight by helicopter. But with the weather they experienced where helicopters would be grounded, a PLB wouldn't have saved them.

[bailz66]

I don't know, choppers wouldn't have gotten in but a crew on the ground could have walked in I would have thought.

A PLB would have given a good location on the walkers as well

[wayno]

zero visibility at the time, you can see kime hut litle more than a k to the south.. still to hard to get to in the weather. the ridge they came up was too exposed to travel back down in the conditions.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, can't imagine a ground party would go up in that weather. The satellite overlay in that map clearly showed how exposed they were. Trapped.

[wayno]

a crew on the ground did walk in,, by the time sar found them it was too late, i'm not sure they were on the track when they were found.
the fact seddon was found with his trousers down may indicate a couple of different things,
1. going to the loo. or
2. in the later stages of hypothermia. you can actually feel like you are quite hot and the blood can also go back to the extremeties, possibly the feeling hot is part of this happening , at this stage you're usually not thinking coherently and can start removing clothes..
theres been cases of elderly people found naked in their houses in winter, when foul play was ruled out it was realised that they had taken their own clothes off when they had hypothermia.

[Giddy_up]

So close yet so far away, it certainly made me stop and re-confirm all my fail safes that I have in place.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

interestingly, nz metservice relaunched their mountain forecast webpage, they only list the windchill temp and not the air temp

http://metservice.com/mountain/tararua-forest-park

[Strider]

interestingly, nz metservice relaunched their mountain forecast webpage, they only list the windchill temp and not the air temp

http://metservice.com/mountain/tararua-forest-park

Good move I reckon. The disparity between the two can be vast at times.

[wayno]

yeah i wonder who pushed for that, someone who understands the risks of hypothermia for trampers...

[Giddy_up]

Here is a guide to wind chill.

http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreati ... windchill/


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"

[wayno]

and heres a windchill guide with measurements we understand

http://j.ukc2.com/i/208889.jpg

[Giddy_up]

and heres a windchill guide with measurements we understand

http://j.ukc2.com/i/208889.jpg

I had a hunch that was coming!!!!!!!

Thanks wayno.


"Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"