Water bottles - safety concerns.

[Will]

Actually the issue with aluminium is real.
Even small amounts of aluminium can interfere with the metabolism of fluoride and phosphorus, the long term result being the loss of these minerals from the bones and soft/fragile bones (osteomalacia/osteoperosis)

Healthy kidneys can deal with several hundred milligrams of Al per day. Cooking with Al pots and pans introduces 2-3 mg a day into your body. You get more from raw vegetables. However antacids can give you up to 50mg per tablet.

So cooking isn't so much of an issue, but as mentioned earlier the pitting of old Al cookware is of more concern. (It would concern me anyway!)

Impaired kidney function is quicker to show results. See here. Note this is not just a forum with nothing but opinions flying or some text thrown together for a websites daily read.
There are many more cases of dialysis problems with Al.

As already mentioned aluminium salts are used in the 'purification' of water, if you believe this then its not an issue.

I would like to emphasis two points here though.

"We were able to calculate that aluminium from alum-treated drinking water would contribute less than 1 per cent to our body burden of aluminium over a lifetime. However the good news is that a related study on food shows that even what we get from food is well within the safe limits determined by the World Health Organisation," Dr Stauber says.

- As determined by the WHO. And they are doing a fine job aren't they...

Also:

Funded by the Water Services Association of Australia (WSAA)

Need more be said?

Make of that what you will, personally I don't take the governments 'health recommendations'.
It was only 20 years ago the FDA declared that there was no safe level of lead.

There is also some really nasty 'stainless' coming out of china. Have seen stainless balustrade wire rust within a fortnight.
I really like stainless cookware but wouldn't cop out on the cheap stuff.
304 grade might be ok for domestic sales, but its not industry food grade.
Have even used 316 (better, more $$$ than 304) for a car exhaust. Not going to eat off anything less.

As for plastic bottles, the I've not looked into it. Still reuse PETE 1 plastic bottles. They are light, cheap, tough and probably killing me.
Until then.

[/rant]

[tasadam]

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04 ... -water.php

But the follow up - http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/technical/bpaInfo.html

Or the definitive info on the topic - http://www.bisphenol-a.org/

Is anyone out there a bit down on their sperm count, putting on unexplained weight, or growing man-boobs?

Personally I am not concerned, but I still found it interesting enough to share here.

I've purchased glass-lined metal bottles for us, particularly my daughter. She doesn't need MAN BOOBS! Anyhow, I lived in the US when the alligator populations started dropping in the Everglades NP. The culprit- oestrogen leaked from plastic bags in the water, leading to a decrease in alligator pecker size to the point that many of them were incapable of reproduction.

[frank_in_oz]

Is anyone out there a bit down on their sperm count, putting on unexplained weight, or growing man-boobs?

Yes to all three unfortunately

In my favour:
1) Vasectomy
2) Eat too much and don't exercise enough
3) see above

[Tony]

This topic has just recently been heavily debated on backpackinglight.com and the conclusion that I got from the debate was that what ever leaches in to the water is in such small amounts that it is not worth worrying about and that once a plastic bottle is used a few times any chemical leaching slows down to very very small amounts anyway.

FYI water can leach chemicals out of glass.

Tony

Is anyone out there a bit down on their sperm count, putting on unexplained weight, or growing man-boobs?

Yes to all three unfortunately

In my favour:
1) Vasectomy
2) Eat too much and don't exercise enough
3) see above

Add in a 5 year old and you have life in the 'Poser household...... LOL LOL

[Liamy77]

i use a stainless steel bottles WITHOUT PLASTIC LINERS... but this is so i can boil the water in em if i want....

[GPSGuided]

The below discussion split (by request) from a discussion on Cheap Ultralight Water Bottles
Rule 21: Keep replies relevant to the subject of the initial post. If you wish to change the subject, consider posting a new topic separately, and linking to it from the old topic.
Merged into an existing Water Bottle BPA discussion - so all the info is in one place.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2L-Water-Bladder-Bag-Hydration-System-Camelbak-Pack-Backpack-Hiking-Cycling-Blue-/400417863180

Triclosan free but no words on BPA.

[Strider]

Isn't BPA a hardener? These are obviously soft.

[mrpotter]

Triclosan free but no words on BPA.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=37378

[mrpotter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

TIME were quoted as saying "If you don't have BPA in your system you're not living in the modern world" so its clearly a larger problem than a simple bladder will expose me to. The health impacts are debatable too, but mostly thought to affect infants. I'm not sure it really matters? But thanks for pointing this out, I didn't even consider BPA but have now researched it a little

[Orion]

Isn't BPA a hardener? These are obviously soft.

Since it mimics estrogen I would expect it to be the opposite.

[icefest]

Isn't BPA a hardener? These are obviously soft.

Since it mimics estrogen I would expect it to be the opposite.

That's an image I will never forget.

[GPSGuided]

Isn't BPA a hardener? These are obviously soft.

Not sure. It seems that every plastic product these days are rushing to advertise their BPA free manufacturing. Will it kill me? Don't think so. Will it shorten my life? Who knows. Will it turn me into a coo coo? Probably not. Should I avoid it? If it's not too much trouble.

Interesting from the URL MrPotter provided above, someone mentioned that Nalgene bottles leach BPA. I just bought a new Nalgene over the weekend and it had a big BPA free label.

[Strider]

Nalgene have been BPA free since its adverse effects were discovered in 2008.

[GPSGuided]

Nalgene have been BPA free since its adverse effects were discovered in 2008.

Good to know a company that is responsive to the latest. Interesting also that the post in that earlier URL was dated late 2010. Even with the Internet, knowledge still travels slowly.

[Strider]

Nalgene have been BPA free since its adverse effects were discovered in 2008.

Good to know a company that is responsive to the latest. Interesting also that the post in that earlier URL was dated late 2010. Even with the Internet, knowledge still travels slowly.

They had to be responsive - BPA was banned!

[GPSGuided]

They had to be responsive - BPA was banned!

They were? Doesn't sounds to be the case according to Wikipedia. Market pressure seemed to be the dominant force on the change while the EU seemed to have taken a more hard line on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A

[Strider]

I am almost certain that it is banned in Australia

[icefest]

I am almost certain that it is banned in Australia

It's only been banned in Australian baby bottles.

Source: http://archive.foodstandards.gov.au/con ... henolabpa/

[corvus]

As a Devils Advocate how much poison do we ingest every day from automobile exhaust fumes not to mention secondhand tobacco smoke ? I suggest we ingest a lot less than from plastic containers and yes I have heard and read about the "toxic rubber ducky" however I cannot see us going back to the Grocers,Butchers,Bakers,Milkman of my childhood
corvus

[GPSGuided]

I am almost certain that it is banned in Australia

This is what's in the Wiki for Australia.

Australia and New Zealand
The Australia and New Zealand Food Safety Authority (Food Standards Australia New Zealand) does not see any health risk with bisphenol A baby bottles if the manufacturer's instructions are followed. Levels of exposure are very low and do not pose a significant health risk. It added that "the move by overseas manufacturers to stop using BPA in baby bottles is a voluntary action and not the result of a specific action by regulators."[45] It suggests the use of glass baby bottles if parents have any concerns.[46]
The Australian Government has introduced a voluntary phase out of BPA use in polycarbonate baby bottles.[47]

So it would appear that we don't have a ban but a voluntary phase out. Just looking at the market place, seemed to be working pretty well.

[GPSGuided]

As a Devils Advocate how much poison do we ingest every day from automobile exhaust fumes not to mention secondhand tobacco smoke ? I suggest we ingest a lot less than from plastic containers and yes I have heard and read about the "toxic rubber ducky" however I cannot see us going back to the Grocers,Butchers,Bakers,Milkman of my childhood
corvus

I agree. Chemical load for a person in the 21st century is quite significant as compared with those years gone by. I don't fret over it but wouldn't mind avoiding it if it's not too much trouble.

[Mountain Rocket]

... who likes cheap ultralight water vessels?

[madmacca]

I agree. Chemical load for a person in the 21st century is quite significant as compared with those years gone by. I don't fret over it but wouldn't mind avoiding it if it's not too much trouble.

The chemical load is probably far higher from the preservatives and the like in food, than from whatever might leach off from water bottles, utensils, etc. Apparently the preservatives means that bodies decompose at a slower rate than used to be the case pre-industrial revolution.

[Joomy]

Triclosan free but no words on BPA.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... d_id=37378

WOW! 5L for 61 grams! Colin makes some amazing stuff.

[Strider]

... who likes cheap ultralight water vessels?

Trying to make a point here Robert? (possibly along the lines of why would anyone skimp on something as vital as a vessel to carry the fluid we all depend upon?)

[icefest]

... who likes cheap ultralight water vessels?

Where is the problem?
If you don't like light vessels you do not need to buy any.
If you have something expensive but better, can you post it and tell me more?
If you dislike both, then why post here?

[nq111]

Isn't BPA a hardener? These are obviously soft.

Not sure. It seems that every plastic product these days are rushing to advertise their BPA free manufacturing. Will it kill me? Don't think so. Will it shorten my life? Who knows. Will it turn me into a coo coo? Probably not. Should I avoid it? If it's not too much trouble.

Interesting from the URL MrPotter provided above, someone mentioned that Nalgene bottles leach BPA. I just bought a new Nalgene over the weekend and it had a big BPA free label.

There was a good program on Radio National about BPA a few months ago. Seems that the original analysis against it is now accepted as flawed / inadequate and there is mostly agreement that there is not evidence it is harmful (i.e. is probably safe or effects are so minimal they aren't really significant).

I believe the most common source is actually canned foods (something that is used to line the cans?).

[Strider]

I thought saw a recent study on here saying BPA was actually far more harmful than was initially thought?