Another idiot giving bushwalkers a bad name...

[wayno]

its a pretty contentious issue if SAR were to start picking and choosing who they will rescue...

I'd never suggest that. I do think there should be some ramifications for people at the extreme end of the spectrum. If you drive like an idiot and crash your car, emergency services will rescue you, but the cops may well charge you with dangerous driving. It's the same think. Why should taxpayers fund this guy "finding himself"? Even if he didn't injure himself, his planned 40 day fast and complete lack of planning and resources meant it would have been inevitable that he would require rescuing at some point. Even his family basically admitted that. Given he has deliberately done something that any reasonable person could see would likely end in disaster, why not punish him to create a disincentive to the next nut job?

what happens when you charge people to be rescued is they think twice about doing something about getting rescued...
there was a recent case in the states, some climbers got into difficulty, they had a long debate about whether they should activate their rescue beacon because they believed it was going to cost them if they did, in reality they werent going to be charged in that state, but different states can make their own rules
they eventually called for help but the delay meant it was now nightfall and the rescue became a lot more difficult as a result..
you charge people they will be more reluctant to ask for hep and peoples lives will be put at risk including that of SAR

[walkinTas]

+1
...And not only will you put peoples lives at risk (including the lives of the rescuers), there is a real chance that the rescue will cost more money. Much better to let people know where you are and that you need help than it is to leave them guessing on both counts.

[wayno]

the only case where i think you should consider charging is when you call search and rescue needlessly, ie you can't wait for a river to drop, you ahve food and think ah i'll call in the sar helicopter. there was one case recently in nz, a group were at a road end so they activated their emergency beacon to get a ride back to civilisation....
or there was another case where the man supposedly was running late and activated his emergency beacon, but that incident is vague on details and was parroted by all the press based on maritime authority releaseing a critical article about the gent in question.

[north-north-west]

Steve, I don't think there is question that the man Jesus did exist the speculation is did he in fact turn water into wine, feed the masses, rise from the grave and biggest the mystery of all....was he for a short time an active member of the PeoplesFront of Judeah!?

As for Mccandles, I can only go off the movie and some reports I've read...seems like a selfish, spoilt brat to me. Reminds me of a converstaion i had with my dad when I was a young lad. "Dad, why wer'nt you a hippy during the 60's" he replied," I couldn't afford to be one".

Actually there is some serious(?) theological dispute over the actual existence of Christ. I have little time for the rest of the mythos except as an analysis of human belief systems and spirituality (as opposed to religion).


The point about McCandles is that he DID what some of us dream of doing but are too scared to (and just replicate as a pale shadow through solo hiking or hitchhiking) and many don't even consider. Not so much in Alaska where I think he failed badly and stupidly but before that in the more urbanised framework of the U.S.
Basically he stepped out of the accepted social framework and redefined it to suit himself. He abandoned everything and let the world he encountered redefine him (rather than the other way around as most of us do). He didn't completely succeed and eventually he completely failed but I admire him for trying because I too once riled against the gulf between human conformity and genuine living but was too scared to take the leap. As most of us are.
The point about where he intersects with spirituality is that every prophet in history is depicted as stepping out of the world to confront a greater truth that cannot be faced within a social-human paradigm and this single first step is a massive one that most of us will never take (except just once, forcibly, right at the end). It is the voluntary annihilation of the 'self'.

This is definitely NOT the same as the hippy framework where people were jumping from one predefined paradigm into another and supported each other in the transition (I guess the first person blazed a new trail) . And seriously; most 'hippies' weren't challenging themselves or anything else; they were just 'wearing the T-Shirt'.

Many of the stories of religious prophets (which McCandels was NOT and shouldn't be treated as) talk of venturing out into the world with nothing and relying on chance/charity/divine grace (should probably add pity too) to save them. And then venturing into the wilderness with nothing and risking their life to achieve revelation.
McCandels successfully ventured into the world with nothing and survived and in that initial, terrible leap I admire him utterly. In his subsequent naive and badly under-prepared journey to Alaska I think he was a fool.

I too only base my ideas on a single book so really, what do I know? (and I'm sorry that this is becoming a wine-fueled rant, but some ideas are never expressed otherwise)
I've always been both tempted and fascinated by the idea of "stepping off of the world". That with a single brave step you could walk away from the world you know. Not just physically away but completely: culturally, emotionally, intellectually, mentally.

And this is the main thing; that any serious bushwalker who reflects on their relationship with nature KNOWS that they live within a contrived relationship with nature; treating 'the bush' as merely a recreational/ecological pursuit that leaves us distant and separate from nature (not feeding directly from it or affecting it or even really living in it, except as a guest). And that most in our western 'civilisation' are even more distant than us.

If you've got this far, thanks for indulging me. Some of my thinks are thunks that thankfully have thisszlled!

Steve

You are far too intelligent, literate and thoughtful for the internet age. Unless you're some sort of alien who's taken over Steve's body . . .

[Happy Pirate]

You are far too intelligent, literate and thoughtful for the internet age. Unless you're some sort of alien who's taken over Steve's body . . .

Meep meep meep!

[Happy Pirate]

"The point about McCandles is that he DID what some of us dream of doing but are too scared to"

i doubt that , i certainly dont think about doing what he did. he was playing russian roulette.
I plan my trips and euip properly for them, i've no interest in having an exercise in misery, excessive danger and stress and risk my life...

Wayno
can you seriously tell me that as a restless and wide-eyed (as I assume you were) kid you never raged (even internally) against the constraints and norms of the society into which you were being inducted?
Did you never see 'Grizzly Adams' and think "there but for courage (and lack of bears) go I?"
Did you feel a love for nature at a young age but rage against safety or cultural constraints that restricted your experience to less than you yearned for?
I can't believe you did not.
This is the discussed idea of a self freed from societal conformity to form a personal relationship rather than a prescribed relationship with the world.

It's an idea that goes too often un-discussed but which I think is at the core of many of our issues.

I'm bumping this because I'm thinking more and more about our failure of a relationship with nature (Do we need a divorce?) and want to press all conversations about said relationship.

This is what I feel is being lost and what seems to be most needed by a society all to happy to abandon nature to the mill of short-term prosperity.

Can we even talk about what we have lost or is it like trying to remember the womb?

Thanks
Steve

[Happy Pirate]

It seems like not so long ago that farmers and conservationists were against each other over a difference in conservationist ideals (Human use vs. natural use).

Now both disparate attitudes are combined against an ideal which, rather than pit one usage against another, pits any idea of renewable re-use against destructive single use extraction or renewable against destructive.
Surely the only way this could be happening is from utter disconnection from any form of land awareness?

There has been a gradual shift in ideals and political positions. But it is now time to draw a definitive line that defies both the traditional left-right and the city-country ideals but combines ALL people from ALL backgrounds to say "Now is Enough"
This is not simply a continuation of progress but a shift in the very paradigm of our ideals.
I rage against this issue of mining / corporatocracy vs. natural land values every day and desperately want to take up arms against this madness but have no idea of how.

Can we discuss our feelings about this "new wave" of 'extraction' and it's effects on our world?
Or more importantly can we stop discussing our feelings and start firming up some action?
Steve

[wayno]

yeah i had dreams of escaping society, but, i also had a certain amount of fear and respect for the outdoors not to plough on regardless without a map and compass and some knowledge about where i was going to walk and what risks i'd encounter

[Travis22]

Hi Steve, just wanted to say that i really enjoy your posts. I love your take on things.

Travis.

ps; ive only got one eye (blind in the other) ive never paid attention to peoples 'signatures' but the glass eye bit in your sig caught my 'eye'

Wow you have captured and created some amazing images, id love to see you ' Peripheral Gallery Page'.

[north-north-west]

I'm bumping this because I'm thinking more and more about our failure of a relationship with nature (Do we need a divorce?) and want to press all conversations about said relationship.

My first response was that it's nature that needs the divorce - talk about battered spouse syndrome . . .
. . . but then that morphed into the thought that it's our divorce from the real, natural world that's caused the problems in the first place. The world was so much safer when we were (more or less) aware we were just another animal . . .

[Happy Pirate]

yeah i had dreams of escaping society, but, i also had a certain amount of fear and respect for the outdoors not to plough on regardless without a map and compass and some knowledge about where i was going to walk and what risks i'd encounter

Wayno - Yeah fair point. It's certainly an attitude fraught with naivety. I guess its less about a relationship with nature than with ones own self and society.
Brave and admirable from that perspective but what a mess if we were all to follow.

Should note that I bumped this about halfway through reading "Rich Land, Waste Land" by Sharyn Munroe -about the rape of the landscape by big coal and complicit governments. Was feeling very raw and angry. It's a book I heartily recommend although you may need counseling, alcohol or the patient understanding of your family afterwards. I cannot understand the mentality so far divorced from the landscape that could see such effects as reasonable.

Hi Steve, just wanted to say that i really enjoy your posts. I love your take on things.
Travis.
ps; ive only got one eye (blind in the other) ive never paid attention to peoples 'signatures' but the glass eye bit in your sig caught my 'eye'
Wow you have captured and created some amazing images, id love to see you ' Peripheral Gallery Page'.

Thanks Travis - I really appreciate your comments.
I do go on sometimes - the danger of a tolerant forum
Glad you liked the Website - hope your eye is still seeing and your legs are still taking it places

As to the Peripheral Gallery - it was a great exhibition, my first solo gig.
All of the images are still embedded in other galleries. But just for this forum I've unlocked the page (cos you asked so nice).

http://stevehallphoto.photoshelter.com/gallery/Exhibition-Images-Peripheral-Dec-2011-at-The-Goat-Gallery/G0000mZ0xsP3yDI0
Password: Peripheral

cheers
Steve