Do you need to wear a climbing harness to rope up

[Finnigan]

I am are intending to do another walk in Europe with my wife and friends, and for my wives safety and my piece of mind, on the traverse across steep slippery snow I would like to rope together.(we will not be climbing as such just hiking).
The question is will we have to both/all wear proper climbing harnesses to do this?
or can we attach rope to our packs with carrabiners ?

[Pourchasser]

It doesn't really matter if you are hiking or climbing; if there is a need for an anchor point than climbing harnesses are designed not to fail in such situations. For instance, I have a highly technical pack for mountaineering, where there is a hanger on my hip-belt for carabiners and which might look appropriate to affix a rope, however it's not designed for bearing loads, just like the little novelty carabiners sold with key chains are not designed for being used in the same way as a real carabiner would be used.

If you want peace-of-mind than nothing beats using climbing harnesses, on the other hand if you're trying to save money than you could just rope-up around your waists, this would be perfectly acceptable, but it would work best with a static piece of rope between only two people. Certainly I would never advise attaching to packs, with or without carabiners.

[clarence]

I agree with Pourchasser, your pack harness would be pretty useless for rope attachment in any serious situation.

May I suggest you look at this thread for some ideas for lightweight harness designs which MAY be worth considering. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10612&p=144415&hilit=harness#p144415

I would think that having an ice axe/piolet and possibly dynamic rope would probably be more important in arresting a fall (as opposed to both being dragged down together) than the type of harness. There is a fair bit to fall arrest and safe travel when roped together in mountain/glacier country which would be worth brushing up on before you go. There are purpose made glacier travel ropes, but you'd have to go to somewhere like Bogong in Melbourne or Mountain Equipment in Sydney to find one. http://www.sterlingrope.com/products/424111

If in doubt, read the bible: Mountaineering- the Freedom of the Hills. http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/Mounta ... -P569.aspx

Clarence

[Walking_addict]

If you feel it necessary to rope up on snow slopes / tracks, then consider ice axes too.
No point roping up if you can't arrest the fall, by the group or indeed self arrest.

You can probably hire these over there, but you might need some basic fall arrest training to ensure you can all use them properly.
If you are expecting deeper snow traversing, you can probably get the group a little educated on step plugging / plunge stepping too, and walking in each others step tracks (kept to the smallest person pace etc).

Enjoy the trip, sounds like you'll be doing some exciting walking.

Edit - Just noticed your comment included this clarence, good advice.

[Moondog55]

I second [and third] the need for a walking axe if there is a need to rope up but for walking purposes simply tying into the rope would suffice for me, although Alpine butterflys are not the easiest of knots to learn; also a simple harness made from 25mm tape is a lot cheaper then a harness for a onetime use article as second hand harnesses have absolutely no value

[DarrenM]

Make sure you know how to arrest before tying in to anything or anyone. It can be more dangerous with a rope than without one if you haven't used them before. Practising is fun anyway.

[grantw]

Yes there's no point in roping up if you don't have a means of self arrest, for either you or your partner.

[rolfex]

If you are hiking on steep slippery snow, I highly recommend Kahtoola Microspikes for additional grip on the snow. I used them in Nepal and had fabulous traction, where everybody else (without the spikes) found the conditions dangerous and slippery.

[Finnigan]

Thanks everyone for the information. even though we do have micro spikes i think it may be wise to have or hire ice axes.
even though last time my wife slipped she self arrested with her hiking poles, it would be wiser and less cumbersome to use axes if need be.
thanks again guys lots of food for thought,

[durks]

I am are intending to do another walk in Europe ...

Out of interest: where exactly? Which route?

... and for my wives safety and my piece of mind, on the traverse across steep slippery snow I would like to rope together ...

All the above advice is good. In addition:

1. Apart from tieing directly into the rope, adequate waist harnesses for this kind of use could be made with single slings.
2. For this type of use, keep the rope length between people very short: as short as 6 feet or so might be good.

[Finnigan]

I am are intending to do another walk in Europe ...

Out of interest: where exactly? Which route?

... and for my wives safety and my piece of mind, on the traverse across steep slippery snow I would like to rope together ...

All the above advice is good. In addition:

1. Apart from tieing directly into the rope, adequate waist harnesses for this kind of use could be made with single slings.
2. For this type of use, keep the rope length between people very short: as short as 6 feet or so might be good.

The Jungfrau region in Swiss alps Wilderswil to First under the Eiger to Murren , and up over the Schilthorn and back to Wilderswil roughly, about a 14 day walk, not a dangerous walk by any means, just sometimes early in the season there is large snow patches left on the peaks sometimes.

[Lophophaps]

All my early climbing on rock and in bigger mountains was with a swami seat, made of seat belt webbing. You only need to know how to tie a reef knot and a half hitch. I can't find anything online except a reference that nothing can be found!

You need about 5.5 metre of 40 mm tape. Find the centre of the tape and go 200 mm to one side. Pass the tape from behind the body between the legs to that this offset centre is in the groin. The two "tails" then go around the legs to emerge at the front and are passed up into the offset centre. Try to keep the tape flat if at all possible. The two tails are then wound around the waist, with the right tail going to the right and the left tail going to the left. The offset means that the final knot on the waist is on a hip and not at the back. Use a reef knot, and a half hitch for each side. I also had a loop of light cord on the back of one leg loop. This was passed over the waist tape with a locking hitch and finished on the other leg with a sort of prussik knot, slides easily. This stops the leg loops from sagging. The rope is tied to the leg and waist loops, or maybe use a short tape loop and a screwgate krab.

Another similar option is the Swiss seat, http://www.wikihow.com/Tie-a-Swiss-Seat-Rappel-Harness