Removing abandoned packs from the bush -- what would you do?

[whynotwalk]

A few years ago we came across a snow-collapsed tent on the Wild Dog Creek tent platforms in the Walls of Jerusalem. We wondered whether the owners were out walking, and unaware of what had happened. The next morning there was still no-one in the tent, and we began to fear that they may have got into trouble. But what didn't make sense was that there were no sleeping bags, packs or other gear in the tent, just a few articles of clothing. We then noticed that the tent was a very cheap one (a K-Mart special??), and that the gear left in the tent wasn't of any value either.

We discussed it with another group that was camping nearby, and we agreed between us that we should remove the tent. So the other group took it out, and our group agreed to contact Parks & Wildlife, in case anything had been reported. It turned out no reports had been made, and there were no sign-outs missing from the log book. In the end we concluded that it was probably backpackers who'd bought a cheap tent, had it collapse on them, and decided to abandon it. Not exactly best-practice behaviour, but unfortunately not all that uncommon.

cheers

Peter

[stepbystep]

I think leadership can be learned and one must not be a born leader to lead well. It might be harder and require dedication but it hardly impossible.

Agree. I think few people are natural leaders. We worry about decisions we make, we hesitate to make decisions, sometimes we make wrong decisions. When we make wrong decisions, we learn from that. But unless you're satisfied with being a follower, then you lead. And I suspect that most of us in this forum are leaders, natural or otherwise.

Actually I think we all agree. Richard just needs to make that decision himself. He seems to have an understanding of where he's at. I wasn't suggesting a lifetime ban...but it's a club with structure, expectations and I assume standards. An example to others...call it a sin binning!

I'm so glad to walk in a group that consult each other and have no need for 'leaders', we all have our moments with off track walking in particular when we make questionable navigational decisions. Richard's poor decision is very different to that.

[Allchin09]

I think an interesting question to consider in this discussion is, if it is our responsibility to remove all rubbish we come across, then - what do we consider to be rubbish?

Is any pack left in the bush rubbish, regardless of how long it is intended to be left there? For example, if packs are left after people are rescued, at what point is it suitable to remove the packs if the contain on way of identifying their owners?

What about those little pieces of flagging tape that are used mark the location of fox poison? Or little markers that people have nailed to trees to assist in marking a path?

[north-north-west]

But unless you're satisfied with being a follower, then you lead.

Or just go solo.

[Nuts]

A few years ago we came across a snow-collapsed tent on the Wild Dog Creek tent platforms in the Walls of Jerusalem. We wondered whether the owners were out walking, and unaware of what had happened. The next morning there was still no-one in the tent, and we began to fear that they may have got into trouble. But what didn't make sense was that there were no sleeping bags, packs or other gear in the tent, just a few articles of clothing. We then noticed that the tent was a very cheap one (a K-Mart special??), and that the gear left in the tent wasn't of any value either.

We discussed it with another group that was camping nearby, and we agreed between us that we should remove the tent. So the other group took it out, and our group agreed to contact Parks & Wildlife, in case anything had been reported. It turned out no reports had been made, and there were no sign-outs missing from the log book. In the end we concluded that it was probably backpackers who'd bought a cheap tent, had it collapse on them, and decided to abandon it. Not exactly best-practice behaviour, but unfortunately not all that uncommon.

cheers

Peter

Not that uncommon but also not the only scenario. A well meaning walker delivered my tent to me when I was in between doing trackwork in the daywalk area at Cradle. It had been tucked away but would occasionally just be left pitched for a night here or there, sometimes on days off. Yes.. an old tent, sometimes pulling a peg by the time I came back, some old worn camping gear. Probably looking like a hobo lair after days of work.

This isn't (or wasn't) uncommon practice. That aside, sometimes the even more un-usual will be true. Rather than bizzare it could very well be someone lost or some sort of evidence as mentioned.. especially around cities.. We once stumbled on what was a (abandoned) camp, tents stretchers etc. only later realising we had walked through clearings comprising acres of turned over ground. This on a walk in the bush around Narrabeen Lakes

As in the unfortunate case Overlandman mentions probably the best idea is to leave everything where you find it if it's not definitely rubbish. Moreso to report it if concerned about someone in trouble, report if it's rubbish. Follow up the report depending on the level of concern, again and again. That case, even though the outcome would likely have been the same, demonstrates that things get missed- even in best practice. A bit of rubbish isn't going to matter for the short term.

[puredingo]

Seems to me like Richard was under a fair bit of stress well before he came across the pack and as far as being the walk leader I think he fulfilled his duties admirably. He was head of a troop that was rapidly deteriorating he probably surmised his first and foremost priority was to ensure the safe return of his party.

as for the scattered gear?..maybe as Richard walked slightly ahead one of the fitter, although less experienced members, rummaged through the pack and he didn't know but being the leader and knowing the unity clause (in the all mighty bushwalking code) , he fell on the sword for his team as not every one is a dober in this game. All speculation.

Sack him as a leader NEVER. My boss has sent companies under ruined thousands of lives and yet as it is ATM I think he's the highest paid CEO in Australia! All Richard did was leave somebodys gear in place that can be retrieved at a later date so to ensure the well being of people under his responsibility...I'm backing Dicky in on this one, THREE MORE YEARS!!!

[Onestepmore]

I have had a bit of a think about this one. I'd have tidied it up a bit and repacked, taken photos and a GPS fix, and then reported it to NPWS and the police. I don't think I would have transported it out. Also take note I don't walk with a big group, either myself solo, or with my hubby and one two teenage children. I'd hate to leave my gear at a side track and have someone else fiddle with it ( I have read about the where's and why's in this case) but in general if I came across a pack or tent or whatever I would leave it be

[GPSGuided]

I think leadership can be learned and one must not be a born leader to lead well. It might be harder and require dedication but it hardly impossible.

Whilst I don't agree with the suggestion to strike off his leader position and believe that leadership can be learnt, but it is important to know whether his club will provide the necessary support and training to guide his performance.

[Strider]

Why should the "leader" cop all the blame? Are the others in the group not capable of bearing any responsibility also?

[Bubbalouie]

Why should the "leader" cop all the blame? Are the others in the group not capable of bearing any responsibility also?

IMHO they are, not leaving a mess & littering are just decent behaviour. It has nothing to do with bush ethics, LNT or anything else, you wouldn't dump rubbish in you local park /playground after all.

[matagi]

Why should the "leader" cop all the blame? Are the others in the group not capable of bearing any responsibility also?

Precisely. The other group members were not mindless automatons. They should have been perfectly capable of thinking and making the appropriate decisions.

[Lizzy]

Especially if they are adults...

[walkon]

Anyone who can stand up, take criticism, acknowledge faults, offer for a better future solution and bid a resignation from an organization which I'd say he loves would have to be an alright bloke in my book. It's really easy to take pot shots on people having a go. He admitted fault, gave us an explanation, life is about living and learning. Sadly many clubs and organizations lose people who are having a go trying to do good, make a few mistakes and then suffer people having a go at them ad nauseum.

If I sacked any one of my workers because they didnt do the right thing and made a mistake I'd be on my own, come to think of it I'd be gone too. We're human and all stuff up at one time or another, at least now hopefully there is alot more education out there about the etiquette in the bush.

[icefest]

Anyone who can stand up, take criticism, acknowledge faults, offer for a better future solution and bid a resignation from an organization which I'd say he loves would have to be an alright bloke in my book. It's really easy to take pot shots on people having a go. He admitted fault, gave us an explanation, life is about living and learning. Sadly many clubs and organizations lose people who are having a go trying to do good, make a few mistakes and then suffer people having a go at them ad nauseum.

This, so many times +1