Snake bites

[Nuts]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/1889107

[GPSGuided]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/page/1889107

Nuts, I think it would be great if you can add this new found URL into the other thread. I don't recall seeing what you've just found and there are some new tidbits that'd be valued in that thread. You found it, you have the honour.

[Nuts]

Haha, ok. Yes, it is a tragic story, imagine the poor womans distress not wanting to tell anyone.
The recovery sounds like an epic in itself.

[Overlandman]

I use to tell the Story of Dorothy being bitten on the backside for years whilst doing snake shows, Until Cathy P from Parks found out the correct information for me 15 years ago,
(thanks Cathy)
Dorothy was bitten twice on the Lower right leg.

Thanks for the link Nuts, that is the first time I had read that article.

Gordon Kennedy was bitten by a Tiger Snake in 1977 whilst performing a snake show at Brighton near Hobart, Antivenom was administered but Gordon died within 2 hours.

If you want to read a great book on Snake Experts & Antidote Sellers,
read Snakes Alive by John Cann

This is a link to DPIPWE Living with Snakes that tasadam found & posted on another topic, on Snake Bite
http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/We ... 2F4SG?open

[Overlandman]

Lucky Guy

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-11/m ... rs/5149598

Authorities say a man rushed to Broome, in Western Australia's north, with a snake bite is believed to have been bitten by a desert death adder.

The snake is one of the world's most deadly varieties.

The man was bitten on Monday night at Port Smith, south of Broome.

Wildlife officer Matt Swan says a death adder bite is one of the worst type of snake bites.

"Death adders are in the top ten most venomous snakes in the world," he said.

"The bite is not painful but the after-effects are excruciating.

The victim was a man aged in his 40s, who was staying in Port Smith while doing contract work at the nearby Bidyadanga Aboriginal community.

He was kept in hospital overnight but has since been released.

The Department of Parks and Wildlife is warning that as temperatures heat up across the state, snakes will be on the move.

Mr Swan says people need to act quickly if someone is bitten.

"It's best applying appropriate first aid so a pressure bandage from the bite site out to the extremities of the limb back towards the heart and then another pressure bandage over that.

"Dial triple zero and wait for that urgent medical attention."

Mr Swan advises that if a snake bite occurs, the first thing to do is to get out of the snake's way.

"If you are bitten, the best thing you can do is make sure you are safe from that snake, so that might mean removing yourself from that area," he said.

"The medical staff around Western Australia now have some amazing test kits where they can actually test your blood or test the bite site so that if they do have to give you anti-venom they know exactly which one to use."

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Getting bitten by a deadly snake and airlifted out of Bidyadanga is not a bad outcome.

Trust me, I've been there

[Overlandman]

Dont Get Bitten on the East Coast of Tasmania over the Christmas break

http://www.examiner.com.au/story/199069 ... ger/?cs=95

LIFE-SAVING treatment for snake bites is potentially hours away from East Coast residents after the only antivenom in the region was ruined on Sunday night.

Vials of antivenom were rendered unusable at a local doctor's surgery after a fridge fault saw the product frozen.

An East Coast pharmacy, the only other place to stock antivenom in the region, inadvertently left a fridge door open, again ruining the sensitive product.

Antivenom is only administered by doctors and stored at select locations in Hobart, Launceston and Devonport.

Reptile Rescue Freycinet GSB branch owner Bruce Press said the prospect of a summer without antivenom was terrifying.

Mr Press fears he is sending his 10 volunteers to jobs unprotected. The organisation received 13 call-outs last Thursday alone.

Headaches, blurred vision, lost consciousness and kidney failure are symptomatic of certain snake bites. Death can result if the person remains untreated.

``We're about to be inundated on Thursday with people coming and using their shacks,'' the Swansea-based man said.

``If someone's bitten by a snake at Freycinet National Park, by the time they get to Swansea they could be buggered.

``We have snakes all through national parks and in some homes.

``Oh my goodness, it's thrown us into turmoil - it's, `Do we go, do we not go?'.''


East Coast residents rallied to raise hundreds of dollars in 2011 for the two vials ruined at the weekend.

Mr Press is desperate for funds to buy more antivenom. Anyone able to assist can call 0400502403.

[Walking_addict]

There's been some good discussing in this thread, and it's generally been pretty factual.
As an ex snake catcher here in SA, I'd love to impart a little info I picked up in many a training session.

Many snakes bite as a defensive action, and as a quick 'bite', they are often a 'dry' bite, with no envenomation, especially so with Eastern Browns.
Eastern Browns also have very short fangs, unable to bite through thick cotton (denim etc).
That said, it was noted you should treat ANY strike as an envenomation, because people have died with autopsies revealing faint scratches under close examination.

2 pressure bandages long enough to easily bind a leg from toe to thigh is all you need.
Venom doesn't enter the bloodstream immediately, though if you were unlucky enough to be bitten by a Tiger or Brown directly onto your arteries in the wrist for example, well, that might be different.
The venom travels through the lymphatic system to the lymph nodes, generally in the groin or armpit, which is why pressure immobilisation is the key treatment.

If bitten on an extremity (foot, lower leg, or hand, wrist, lower arm), the venom takes quite a while to get there, but travelling unrestricted and if movement in the limbs it will get there eventually / faster.
(If bitten on the torso, that's pretty *&%$#! luck, all you can do is hold pressure by hand with a small pillow, etc to slow things.

So, starting at the toes or fingers (so you don't force pressure to the extremities when bandaging towards them) you bind up with a medium pressure leaving the toes or fingers exposed so circulation can be checked (colour).
The second bandage should take up a little over the first, and go up as high as you can, generally overlapping bandages half wrap on the width as you go.

The pressure needs to be enough to constrict firmly, but . . .
You don't want to do it too tight, because you don't want to have to release the pressure and re bandage due to circulation issues or for any other reason once applied.
Too tight and it becomes painful for the victim, and releasing to reset will allow lymphatic system to proceed with transferring the venom.

Practice on yourself or a fellow walker, get to know how it feels to have bandages on for a period of time (30mins to 60 mins) and what pressure to use with your 2 bandage set.

If possible contact for assistance / evacuation after bandaging, the sooner help is on the way the better.
Anti venom is either monovalent for specific species or polyvalent to treat unknown of certain groups of species.
You should not remove any venom on the skin if there is any there, as this is swabbed to test if species is unknown.
Please, don't try and catch or kill the snake, it's not needed for id, and might end up with 2 victims.

If help isn't going to be there within a short time, say an hour, best to immobilise.
Look, do this anyway, because transporting by stretcher overland to a road or being winched out is going to cause the limb to move and thus pump the lymphatic system by movement.
Ok, with the limb slightly bent, use a stick / sapling of suitable length / strength to bind lightly near the ankle and upper thigh.
You can use any old light bandage for this, and again not too tight.
It should be hard for the patient to move the limb now.

If help isn't coming, or likely to be many days, location unknown, etc, then the advice I was given was to rest up for a couple of days, keeping as still and calm as possible.
Day 3, make a crutch to assist walking out as easily as possible by the shortest easiest route.
Theory is, that venom breaks down fairly quickly in the human body, loses its toxicity, so a few days after you aren't at as much risk.

The closest we have come to a problem out bush was coming off the Viking one time, it was cold, we were headed east on the AAWT and making our way steeply downhill off track to a knoll in the distance.
A shout from one walker and saw him literally bound (very unnatural looking in that scrub !) downhill 20m, and stop dropping his pack and sitting down.
Then I heard the word 'snake' blurted out.

He'd felt something tickling his leg, just above the left gaiter, looked down to see a Tiger curled up 'tasting' him :/

It was one time I was ok with non treatment after checking him thoroughly that the snake didn't bite.
He told me he hadn't taken his eyes off it in the split second it took to move, it didn't strike, and the animal wasn't at operational temperature, very sluggish, etc.
He was adamant no bite took place, just the fork tongue touching his leg.
I was really uneasy and worried for a while though.

Tiger venom coagulates the blood, have seen a vial of dog blood solidify within a minute with just the tip of a pin in the venom and dipped into the vial.

Anyway, don't stress too much, it's a bit like shark attacks, you have much more chance of harm driving to / from a walk than an incident with a snake.

[GPSGuided]

Good info. Thanks Les!

[neilmny]

Thanks Les, much appreciate the info.

[Bubbalouie]

Great post Les, the explanation of why certain things are important is really helpful.

(I shared this one with my other half it was so informative)

Thanks

[Walking_addict]

No problems, here's to a snake free summer of walking

[jackhinde]

Spot on with the first aid.
Brown snakes do tend to give dry bites, but tigers are less forgiving.
Curiously tiger snake venom actually results in blood that doesn't clot when in a patient. The pro coagulant nature of the venom as mentioned above is apparent in a small blood sample, but in a body it results in fibrinogen being used up in initial clots and then the blood is unable to clot at all, resulting in haemorrhaging though out the body. It's the neurotoxins that will most likely get you though.
In regards to the earlier article regarding lack of anti venom, even the two vials they had would not have been enough, all the tiger bites I am personally aware of have used 4 or more.

Some of us like snakes, I look forward to a snake filled summer of walking!

[Walking_addict]

Cheers Jack, good info re the tiger venom . . . whoda thought it would have the opposite effect in the system.
So, watch out for symptoms similar to browns then, basically looking drunk.

Yep, don't mind seeing them, why I initially got into the snake training, to calm my fear of the unknown.
Once you know how most snakes react around people, you don't worry quite as much.
Still, can't help the mind games in a megamid on a warm night though :/

[skibug]

Just wondering with first treatment ....
After compression and splinting, I would have assumed to minimise the flow of lymphatic fluid out of the limb, it would be best to have that limb below the torso, so if bitten on the leg, lay on sloping ground with the head uphill, or sit upright leaning against a tree. If on the arm, then lie across the slope with the arm extended on the downhill side. I imagine this would encourage "pooling", and minimise flow into the rest of the body. Any thoughts, Les, or anyone else?

Skibug

[Walking_addict]

Couldn't hurt mate, and anything that could limit lymphatic flow should be encouraged, might also reassure a victim a little more, that is very important.
Suppose that would be the natural way to position a victim anyway, head up hill, or sitting up etc, but the arm downhill could help if a bite on lower arm / hand.

I'd say keeping victim calm and limb still would be the big ones, once bandaged / immobilised properly.

Oh, I read another few posts page or 2 back re setting off epirb / plb.
Heck yeah, if I was dead set struck by any sort of Aussie elapid, I'd be setting it off asap (bandage and splint first), then try phone coverage to call it in (unlikely in most places we go, but suppose this is improving more . . . waiting for symptoms would indicate the venom has reached the lymph glands and bloodstream, you'd have bugger all time left then !

[Overlandman]

http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/201 ... t/?cs=2452

The old, not dead until sunset trick,
Regards Overlandman

JAKE Thomas nearly died after being bitten by a dead snake in a cemetery.
The retired Werris Creek railwayman has recovered after intensive care treatment from two bites from a red-bellied black snake – and he’s lived to tell a tale that beggars belief for some of us.
Old timers will tell you that a snake doesn’t die until sunset – and Jake questions now whether the myth is fact.
His story is a cracker of a snake saga.
It involves a good Samaritan act, a volunteer’s duty to keep others safe, and a tale of the snake’s tail that didn’t stop the fangs from biting into his finger.
After an emergency trip to hospital, a couple of days in the critical care unit of Tamworth hospital, and a bit of soul searching, Jake’s got a message for others, too. Beware where you walk and what you do. Snakes are about where you least expect them.
Jake had never killed a snake in his life until about 10 days ago. He’s seen plenty but heeded the advice of the experts – run away and leave them alone. Until now.
But when Jake and his mate Barry Constable went off to mow around the Werris Creek cemetery, like he’s done regularly as one of about five local blokes since his daughter died in 2001, they were simply doing their bit to tidy it up for the Christmas visitors to family.
“I saw the black snake. It was in a headstone on the grave next to my daughter’s. It had stopped moving and I could see it was caught in a vase. There was about two foot hanging out,” he said.
Worried that grieving family would come across it, he went for the shovel and cut it in half.
He and Barry finished the lawn mowing and then he went back to clean the snake up and take it away so it didn’t scare the socks off someone else.
He reached down into where the flowers were next to the vase – and that’s when the head reared up and bit him.
He nearly died of shock, apart from the what the poison and venom would bring on later.
“He got me twice, two good ones, on the ring finger of my left hand and I just turned to Barry and said ‘the *&%$#!’s got me.’
“It was razor sharp. I drove to the Werris Creek hospital. They talked to a doctor in Tamworth and then they called an ambulance and took me to Tamworth.”
He spent two days in ICU.
“They told me I was lucky it wasn’t a brown. They said I’d got a good hit but the brown is more deadly. I can still feel the pain. He really drove it into me.”
Jake couldn’t believe it.
“Yeah, well, now I remember all those stories too. They reckon they don’t die until the sun sets and they used to hang them on the fence to let everyone know it was there. There might be something to it, I reckon.”
According to snake experts, the cold-blooded reptile’s lingering nerve reflexes mean it can effect a bite up to an hour after it is dead.

Right now, Jake believes it’s more than just a myth.

[Overlandman]

Also posted on Helicopter Rescues in Tasmania
There has been no further information on this suspected snake bite in any other media outlets,
So maybe it was a dry bite.
Regards Overlandman

From Tasmanian Air Rescue Trust

On Monday 13 January 2014 the Westpac Rescue Helicopter was tasked to attend Mt Prospect near Lake Lea for a walker who sustained a suspected snake bite.

The helicopter flew to the area and treated the German tourist at the scene. He was transported to Cradle Valley in a satisfactory condition.

[Overlandman]

From todays Advocate newspaper
Doesnt say when it happened.
http://www.theadvocate.com.au/story/207 ... ite/?cs=87

A phone app is being heralded for saving Devonport resident Kendal Sylvester's life when she was bitten by a snake while running.
Miss Sylvester said it was her usual running track and she'd been running for a while recently when the 27-year-old Devonport resident saw what she thought was a brown tree branch on the track.
``I had a plan to just jump over it - I thought it was just a stick lying on the track,'' she said.
By the time she realised it was a snake, it was too late.
``That's when it struck at me,'' she said.
``I panicked and I remember I just fainted straight away.''
When Miss Sylvester woke up, the snake was nowhere to be seen but she could feel a throbbing pain in her leg and a burning sensation where its fangs had struck.
``I was really dizzy and my eyes went on me . . . I was throwing up as well but we think that's because of the shock of it all,'' Miss Sylvester said.
The nursing student said her first thoughts were for her three-year-old son Ronnie, who was staying with his father for the week, but she soon rang emergency services.
``I studied nursing so I knew what to do - I just lay on the ground and didn't move. Once they [the emergency services operator] had calmed me down, they told me to hang up the phone and download this app.''
The app, Emergency+ , uses GPS to pinpoint a person's location, which is then used by emergency services.
Miss Sylvester spent the next hour waiting for paramedics to arrive and was stabilised at the scene before being taken to the Mersey Community Hospital.
During the time she was waiting Miss Sylvester called her mother, who got down to Moorlands Beach and panicked about not being able to find her daughter.
``Mum met these strangers on the beach and they got in their four-wheel-drive and told Mum they were going to try and find me,'' Miss Sylvester said.
``They arrived about the same time as the search and rescue police officer did and they really helped me.''

Miss Sylvester said the strangers helped to erect a shade cloth to cover her from the sun while paramedics worked on her and gave her a swag to put her head on.

Miss Sylvester said she was recovering well but wouldn't be going running any time soon

[Onestepmore]

If there was no antivenom in the hospitals, why couldn't they use some from a vet clinic? Here in NSW we keep multiple vials, some tiger/brown (which does most black snakes too), some brown (the monovalent is cheaper), and many clinics often have a vial of expired ex hospital multivalent (which is the most expensive). I know if I was definitely bitten (clinical signs, detection kit positive etc - tho often false results with these) given the choice of no antivenom, and stuff made by CSL and labelled as a vet product, I'd choose to have the antivenom thanks!

[walkon]

Just did a first aid course and all they recommend is that if you are bittern is to get out of they way of they snake then sit down calm down and wait for rescue to arrive. Apparently you can last for days sitting down resting and by that time someone hopefully would have come for you. If you walk slash run it increases the blood flow around your body for a not good result.

Though I do have to say that after I was bittern by a tiger snake, staying calm whilst your arm is on fire thinking your going to die is not the easiest thing to do.

[GPSGuided]

Who has the "guts" to chop their limb or part limb off when bitten (by a confirmed lethal variety) at a remote location? It'll be extremely drastic but could improve the chance of survival from 0% to hopefully double digit. I recall one climber in the US did similar when his arm was trapped by a boulder in 2003.

[perfectlydark]

Hmm trapped by a boulder with a certainty of starvation is different than a snake bite. Dont think id chop my arm off as you would have to do it soon to avoid poison spreading to far. At that stage it would surely be too early to call

[slparker]

Just did a first aid course and all they recommend is that if you are bittern is to get out of they way of they snake then sit down calm down and wait for rescue to arrive. Apparently you can last for days sitting down resting and by that time someone hopefully would have come for you. If you walk slash run it increases the blood flow around your body for a not good result.

Though I do have to say that after I was bittern by a tiger snake, staying calm whilst your arm is on fire thinking your going to die is not the easiest thing to do.

I'd ask for my money back on your first aid course. the correct first-aid treatment is the pressure Immobilisation method.

[Walking_addict]

Just did a first aid course and all they recommend is that if you are bittern is to get out of they way of they snake then sit down calm down and wait for rescue to arrive. Apparently you can last for days sitting down resting and by that time someone hopefully would have come for you. If you walk slash run it increases the blood flow around your body for a not good result.

Though I do have to say that after I was bittern by a tiger snake, staying calm whilst your arm is on fire thinking your going to die is not the easiest thing to do.

I'd ask for my money back on your first aid course. the correct first-aid treatment is the pressure Immobilisation method.

Yes, correct first aid pressure immobilisation . . . if nobody to go for help, or no comms available, THEN sit down quietly for say 3 days, and if no one else has come by etc and can summon help, then walk out as quietly and calmly as possible . . . as explained in a post above the venoms toxicity decreases while it's in limbo in your bodys lymphatic system.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, correct first aid pressure immobilisation . . . if nobody to go for help, or no comms available, THEN sit down quietly for say 3 days, and if no one else has come by etc and can summon help, then walk out as quietly and calmly as possible . . . as explained in a post above the venoms toxicity decreases while it's in limbo in your bodys lymphatic system.

Letting natural selection take its course?

[Strider]

Just did a first aid course and all they recommend is that if you are bittern is to get out of they way of they snake then sit down calm down and wait for rescue to arrive. Apparently you can last for days sitting down resting and by that time someone hopefully would have come for you. If you walk slash run it increases the blood flow around your body for a not good result.

Though I do have to say that after I was bittern by a tiger snake, staying calm whilst your arm is on fire thinking your going to die is not the easiest thing to do.

I'd ask for my money back on your first aid course. the correct first-aid treatment is the pressure Immobilisation method.

+1

Teaching this incorrect information is actually putting peoples lives at risk.

[perfectlydark]

Wait just to clarify this. We are ok with the pressure bandage. Now if no help is available or can be called for whatever reason, is it best to wait a few days as suggested or walk out immediately? (Assuming no other way of reaching the outside world etc)

[GPSGuided]

Wait just to clarify this. We are ok with the pressure bandage. Now if no help is available or can be called for whatever reason, is it best to wait a few days as suggested or walk out immediately? (Assuming no other way of reaching the outside world etc)

Chop it off quick and then walk out.

[photohiker]

Definitely don't walk out immediately. That will negate the benefit of the pressure bandage.

If you're still alive after 3 days, then I guess it might be worth going for a quiet walk towards home.