Margaret to St Clair

[farefam]

The Eldon's seems to me to be one of the few significant dolerite mountain ranges in Tasmania that is still largely untouched wilderness (in the same way that the Franklin was one of the last undammed rivers). I won't mention the other two ranges that would be on my list. So I'll sit firmly on the no-track side of the fence. People can still get there currently, but it is not an easy trip and it can't be done in a short period of time either. A bit similar to the situation for the full traverse of the Wilmot-Frankland range. As much of the area is very exposed and very remote it wouldn't be the safest spot to be encouraging people to venture into by putting in a track. I hate to think of the degradation that would result.

I haven't personally visited the Eldon's (tried once several years ago but got beaten by some very thick scrub on one of the potential access routes). Nontheless I'd still like to do it one of these days and like the thought of it remaining a real challenge rather than a cake walk.

It's not about being elitist either. It's just about being humble enough to accept that some areas are more valuable to us by just largely leaving them alone in their natural state.

[stepbystep]

After thinking about it, I'm pretty sure oldina has hit it on the head and I agree with farefam also, this world is losing it's wild places and The Reserve in particular is being tramped to death so yeah, leave it alone, perhaps there is another option for the West Coast to attract multi-day hikers linking existing tracks, not knowing the area very well I don't have any real suggestions but I'm sure some that do could make some.......

[greyim]

But is this a version of 'not in my street thankyou very much'? Why have these areas if they cannot be experienced and enjoyed? Formed tracks minimise damage like Sodden Lodden - damage seemingly defended by some as good for keeping (other) people away!

[walkinTas]

The idea of conservation is not to lock up areas for people to visit, or look at, or experience, or enjoy. All of that is a side benefit (for humans that is). We have these areas to protect them, and to protect the plants and animals that live there. We do it in the hope that 100 years or more from now, we will still have pristine wilderness.

[ILUVSWTAS]

:)

The idea of conservation is not to lock up areas for people to visit, or look at, or experience, or enjoy. All of that is a side benefit (for humans that is). We have these areas to protect them, and to protect the plants and animals that live there. We do it in the hope that 100 years or more from now, we will still have pristine wilderness.

Well put. Simple and to the point!

[Nuts]

That sounds more the 'ideal' of conservation... History tells a different story, when the chips are down, economics win out (and are always going to be lurking- why allow mining companies continued access to exploration licences over national parks)..

For what walkers see, the impact along the Overland Track appears obvious but if you fly around out there its footprint is lost within such vast an area. For those that work there or pay to go through 'the reserve' their impact Overall is likely reduced over staying at home, sitting in a chair with a light on at night. To me, the money generated and the dozens of young (and not so young) people employed is significant.

Use it or loose it I say! Though in this case there is lots to be done to manage existing tracks before creating another.

Last edited by Nuts on Mon 17 Jan, 2011 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Use it or loose it I say! Though in this case there is lots to be done to manage existing tracks before creating another.

Thats the key words isnt it!!

Anyone who has done the SCT in years gone by and again recently would see how PWS have neglected the area and it's becoming quite ugly.

Not enough money to be made in that area I spose!

[Son of a Beach]

That sounds more the 'ideal' of conservation... History tells a different story, when the chips are down it is economics that win out (and are always going to be lurking- why allow mining companies continued access to exploration licences over national parks)..

Too right. Wan't the original Lake Pedder in a National Park, which was then redefined to exclude Lake Pedder in order to allow the new dam to be built?

For what walkers see, the impact along the Overland Track appears obvious but if you fly around out there its footprint is lost within such vast an area. For those that work there or pay to go through 'the reserve' their impact Overall is likely reduced over staying at home, sitting in a chair with a light on at night. To me, the money generated and the dozens of young (and not so young) people employed is significant.

Use it or loose it I say! Though in this case there is lots to be done to manage existing tracks before creating another.

It would be good to have some areas left for people who want to find their way without any track, though. NOT in order to "lock up" those areas, but in order to allow for a different type of experience in some areas, than the just-follow-the-track type of bushwalking.

Yes, we are clearly not able to sustain maintenance on the existing popular tracks with the current financial strains on the relevant government departments.

[tasadam]

It would be good to have some areas left for people who want to find their way without any track, though.

There's always New River to Federation....
Seriously tho, there are a lot of places I'd like to go, and no track exists. Some have been done before, eg Melaleuca to Feders... That would be interesting.

[ILUVSWTAS]

It would be good to have some areas left for people who want to find their way without any track, though.

There's always New River to Federation....



Seriously tho, there are a lot of places I'd like to go, and no track exists. Some have been done before, eg Melaleuca to Feders... That would be interesting.

Yeh i'd also love to do that trip. By all accounts it's a very very nice trip.

No-one in their right mind (or anyone with knowledge of the area) would attempt a trip up the New river.

[Phil]

No-one in their right mind (or anyone with knowledge of the area) would attempt a trip up the New river.

Not the New River!!.......I might go back and have a read of that one again!!

[Nuts]

C'mon ILSW, i'll give you a bunch of free bagging points if you nutters climb fedders that way

[Son of a Beach]

It would be good to have some areas left for people who want to find their way without any track, though.

There's always New River to Federation....
Seriously tho, there are a lot of places I'd like to go, and no track exists. Some have been done before, eg Melaleuca to Feders... That would be interesting.

Yes, there are currently a good few options out there for trackless walking. However, the more tracks that get put in, the fewer the trackless options become. So each time a new track is proposed, it has the potential to further limit the trackless walking options. So I guess I'm just saying that this should be taken into account, not that any particular track should not be built.

[ILUVSWTAS]

C'mon ILSW, i'll give you a bunch of free bagging points if you nutters climb fedders that way

Even if you had the power to issue free points Nuts you'd have to be more than just a little "Nuts"to attempt it.

I've done my share of offtrack walking in the Southwest and there's not a thing in the world that would entice me to attempt that trip.

[Bodysurfer]

Leave the Eldons alone! I had the privilege of visiting in the 1970s, and my mainland eyes were amazed by this trackless wilderness. In Victoria, you walk up a fire-track here, cross a fence there, but in an 8 day excursion to the Eldons there were no tracks, no fireplaces, in fact, little sign that any humans had passed that way before. That kind of experience is almost unique in such a spectacular landscape, at least in Australia. Some places should be left alone so that the intrepid can have that really remote experience.

Our route was from the Collingwood River and for a while followed the (then) national park boundary, which I imagine is the Ewart track as it follows the watershed between the South Eldon /Murchison (?). There were surviving poles on this route, although they were probably not Ewart's, but as Keith Lancaster suggests, placed by the bushman Charlie Spencer, to mark the NP boundary.

When I did the walk, there were only a couple of brief patches of tough scrub. I have been told the scrub is much worse these days.

[ollster]

I've always thought paralleling the OLT would be a pretty cool trip. Possibly going on the western side. Avoid Cradle and Barn Bluff and head down to Inglis, then to Proteus, around the back of P. West to Thetis, Ossa, across to bottom of the Du Canes, down through the Lab to Gould (or even try and drop off the Guardians then down to Manfred/Cuvier... could be challenging), and out over Olympus traversing the skyline. It'd be a hoot!

[Nuts]

Even if you had the power to issue free points Nuts you'd have to be more than just a little "Nuts"to attempt it.

Good point..... Hey, maybe though I could sponser you with bandaids and betadine? ( )

[ILUVSWTAS]

Even if you had the power to issue free points Nuts you'd have to be more than just a little "Nuts"to attempt it.

Good point..... Hey, maybe though I could sponser you with bandaids and betadine? ( )

Make it A jetpack and carton of beer and your on!!

[Nuts]

(boags? har har)

[ILUVSWTAS]

Wouldnt drink anything else!!

Attachments

[walkinTas]

That sounds more the 'ideal' of conservation... History tells a different story, when the chips are down, economics win out...

Nothing wrong with ideals! I was answering greyim's "Why have these areas if they cannot be experienced and enjoyed?" Simply, there are higher reasons than just having them for our benefit.

Use it or loose it I say! Though in this case there is lots to be done to manage existing tracks before creating another.

And the longer we keep our wilderness wild, the more pressure there will be to use it. Actually, when you read about threatened species and threatened eco-systems, bushwalking is not see as a big problem. The major problems are things like "native vegetation clearance; pests, weeds and diseases; degradation of water systems; inappropriate use of fire; bycatch and illegal harvesting and inappropriate grazing regimes". Sometimes bushwalkers are blamed for spreading weeds and diseases, and careless camping can introduce fire into very sensitive eco-systems that don't have a natural resistance to fire.

I guess I'm just a purist! I believe that once you put a track through pristine wilderness it is no longer pristine.

[Overlandman]

Noticed in today's ABC story about the Mt Lyell Mine closure, A lot of people will be out of work, the Greens Kim Booth said "there could be employment on the Abt Railway and Lake Margaret to Lake St Clair walking trail".
Regards Overlandman

[stepbystep]

Having now traversed a trackless Eldons I'd find it very disappointing to see a track through there. Very. Besides the good bits are extremely exposed and you couldn't put a suitable grade track through there...

Since this thread started the economic plight of the West Coast and North West has come into sharp relief. It is apparent that the narrow margins made by various mining ventures won't create a sustainable job base that will last generations. I really think a Tarkine region national park is a ray of hope in this regard. There are several options for a multitude of tourism opportunities both throughout and on the periphery of a national park in that beautiful region including multi day-bushwalks.

[Nuts]

Tourism income waxes and wanes. Unlike commodity pricing there is no base. It fits well in a balanced economy but there is no product of any real substance. People don't need to travel.
The lows of a desperate economy could be devastating for wilderness on a broader scale than just the west coast. The notion of a like for like swap is ridiculous, apparently a summation not seen through rosey glasses.

[stepbystep]

Tourism income waxes and wanes. Unlike commodity pricing there is no base. It fits well in a balanced economy but there is no product of any real substance. People don't need to travel.
The lows of a desperate economy could be devastating for wilderness on a broader scale than just the west coast. The notion of a like for like swap is ridiculous, apparently a summation not seen through rosey glasses.

There may be a base to commodity prices nuts but the margins made in Tasmania as opposed to other places is extremely fine. Nelson bay River mine on hold because of a small drop in Iron Ore price, Riley on hold for the same reason. They need a price of $95/ton to pass muster whereas the mines in West Oz need $53/ton. Unfortunately a lot of people who thought these mines were the saviour of the NW have the rosey glasses on. If our govt courted entrepreneurs with vision instead of same-same mining companies the area could develop sustainable industries. Look at what they have done to medicinal cannabis after lobbying from big pharma and the christian right...a properly funded Tarkine National Park with visitor centre, wheelchair/elderly accessible nature walks and adventure based activities would bring a steady flow through the area, numbers would ebb and flow but there would be a permanent base population that would attract other businesses...

I'd love to see a coastal walk from Corinna to Arthur River centred around aboriginal heritage, perhaps a Cradle to Tullah walk also

[Nuts]

Ha, yes. It did cross my mind to come back and make sure you knew 'rosey glasses' wasn't aimed at you SBS. At the least you seem to care.

A friend's friend works in one of those mines. He has been more off than on since the start. No surprise to him i'd say. In fact I don't get the feeling that anyone is particularly surprised.. Who thought these mines would be an economic saviour?

Not that this marginal profit is a good thing, and some of the alternate ideas and directions for the north-west are interesting (to me as well).
Though I'm sure you know how mining companies roll?, they'd make haste down there to break ground even if a downturn was obvious... show their commitment then sit on the lease.. use the instability as an outlet to push for relief or concessions, offload/take on workers as needed..

This happens in tourism too, 'season' to season. Though i'd expect miners are somewhat more committed to trained staff than accommodation establishments, waiters are a dime a doz (sorry waiters).. And similar speculation.. like that of the 'build it'll they'll come assumptions' behind the capes track.. lets hope so, bold new territory. I doubt some of those involved would speculate with their own savings.. but so it goes. Paid to play.

Yes, mining profit marginal, though also always been comparatively lower wages /WA (as i'd guess you know).

In fact, you seem too have (as i'd expect you to have) a good grasp of these things and be able to discern a level of the ridiculous from that making sense..
as much as anyone can not in the loop, in the industries.. not actually involved in anything.

However, CM >Tullah.. W.T. ...: twists moustache : .. surely you're joking right?? You been sampling some of those trial medicinal crops??

Why build a new 'track', why encourage more people to have such unnecessary impact? What on earth is it that drives some people think the world is a better place by getting others 'out there'... Leave them alone.. touring between 5 star.. suffering from first world ailments- I don't understand why there is seen some back slapping good or morals badge in encouraging others to populate- wilderness (nothing wrong with doing so, do whatever, but as an aspiration for others?? scary.. creepy ..)

Despite some odd assumptions (maybe specific to bushwalking forums), back in the world, there isn't a lot of profit in remote wilderness without building infrastructure.

By and by, I wasn't really focused on the west coast, far too removed from the politics to more than imagine what games are played.
Personally, it's more some other prizes- Melaleuca, F'mans, Walls, NR> Fedders, who knows..

Needless to say (as things stand) i'm firmly against any new track, new hut, pretty much anything new built inside national parks.. not, unless at the very least, driven by the Park Service and for conservation. Though even there's likely a shift to 'urbanised' staff with urbanised thinking.. but what other hope is there if those at least 'educated and caring' can't pull the strings...

ps... if it's just the $, another casino?, cable car, airwalks, festivales .. other such gimmicks close to/centered on suburbia in familiar surrounds? Conservationists could put a big fence around 'you all' down there... in truth, isn't that all the progress wilderness really needs..

Thanks for your time.

[Taurë-rana]

I've only read the last page of this topic, but something I was musing on today as I drove past the Parangana Dam was how much scope there is for multi-day walking trails like the Tasmania Trail was supposed to be but with accommodation at the end of each day's walk. There are lots of places that are not national park, not pristine but still would be lovely to walk through. Like you can do in lots of places in Europe. Now I know it would take a lot of infrastructure development, but then so do mines, but I admit that I don't know how many people it would attract. If it was done well and marketed well though, I would have thought it would be quite a few.

I don't agree with tracks through currently pristine and untracked places for the same reasons as others have said, we need remote areas as well as others that are more accessible, but areas like the Tarkine do already have a certain level of human interference and tourism developments could perhaps utilise those areas. Cradle attracts a lot of people, surely other areas would if marketed properly as well.

And re jobs, we have to do something, I don't think mining is the answer but I'm doing tax returns and have already in a few days had quite a few people come in who are trying have lost their jobs, or can only get part time or very low paid work. One fellow said that without the Salvos his family would have been in trouble and given his income I could understand why. Another person received a bit over $12000 for the year - New Start for a single person. Incomes of under $30000 are quite common. These are not the bludgers the government would have us believe, they are people who badly want to work but just can't find it, or can only get low paying jobs.

[Nuts]

I'd go for that T-r. We have an opportunity to choose to do things better, utilise all these non-wilderness areas adjacent to parks (for activities, accommodation) and use non-park trail links, European style. Make them areas the focus for activity and income rather than needing to also spread 5-star into parks (or even unnecessary, management generated, tracks).

It's such a shame on the jobs front. Pawns to party propaganda maybe (to some degree) but then nobody ever seems to suggest a measured approach to changing industry or lifestyle (expose previous inaction? not attractive to politicians and other narcissists?) Anyhow.. always seems either deep green or dirty brown themes most popular.