Firing gun within campgrounds

[Happy Pirate]

Wow and I know what you mean! Just don't turn into an Upset Pirate as you walk out.

I wish I knew what YOU meant...
Do you think I should have spoken less? Where am I walking out to-from?
I thought we were friends

[GPSGuided]

What I meant was, don't let those things upset you. It's hard to change people and there'll always be people out beyond the 2nd standard deviation. Not worth getting upset about. Just be aware they exist. Be happy!

[Happy Pirate]

What I meant was, don't let those things upset you. It's hard to change people and there'll always be people out beyond the 2nd standard deviation. Not worth getting upset about. Just be aware they exist. Be happy!

So should we bring up Port Arthur?
I've faced down a psychotic gun-man and you're telling me to be happy?!!

[flyfisher]

Wow, it's amazing what can come from a single shot in the wrong place.

Wonder if the guy with the rifle is following this. lol

ff

[GPSGuided]

So should we bring up Port Arthur?
I've faced down a psychotic gun-man and you're telling me to be happy?!!

Ah, I never said don't make a valid point, just don't let the response upset you.

[Happy Pirate]

This is NOT about point scoring...

[GPSGuided]

Not about point scoring, but about logical reasoning. Lest we let Australia drift into a US model of gun crimes and behaviour.

[neilmny]

I understand why you would walk out Happy Pirate but I sure it woud have no affect on the person doing the talking.
A different situation but I was away for the weekend with a group of people and someone started up with a classic "I'm not a racist but" style diatribe
and I have to tell you the breakfast was not as enjoyable as it could have been.......but hunger prevailed and eventually the manure stopped spewing out.
These polarising discussions.....no, arguments can be hard to take in situations where you just have to bite your tongue.
I must say though that the "lady" came to a screaming halt when her partner said "look out the nails are falling out of your soapbox"..........you probably had to
be there but that was very funny.

[north-north-west]

Which is the more defendable right? To fire a weapon or to be safe from gunfire?

Which is the crux of it, both here and in the States, but the people with the guns somehow believe their 'right's outweigh everyone else's.

Some people really suck.

[Moondog55]

I think you are all missing the point of the US First Amendment here and why they are so reluctant to give it up. The First Amendment is to allow US citizens to defend themselves against the government not for self defense; although we may have had our right to self defense stripped from us it is still the law in the USA
No such thing as a dangerous weapon[dangerous = unsafe] merely dangerous people and dangerous people are dangerous no matter what

[north-north-west]

I think you are all missing the point of the US First Amendment here and why they are so reluctant to give it up. The First Amendment is to allow US citizens to defend themselves against the government...

Ummm, no, unless you're a right-wing survivalist conspiracy nut. It was originally designed to ensure an armed militia in case of attack by foreign powers.

No such thing as a dangerous weapon [dangerous = unsafe] merely dangerous people.

Weapons make dangerous people more dangerous. Unnecessary weapons (such as semi-automatics in the hands of ordinary citizens) even more so.

There's a big difference between Farmer Jones having a .22 to knock off feral cats and rabbits, and Mr Joe Bloggs of downtown Burbank having an AK47.

You can't have it both ways. There are two major options for the US's gun fatality statistics. One is the insane proliferation of guns, and the other is that Yanks are just naturally violent people who tend to shoot first and consider the consequences later (if ever).

Which is getting way off topic. The issue is the use of firearms in or near official campgrounds. I'm just amazed that there are people who don't have a problem with that. It's asking for trouble.

[AlexB]

Nitpick: first amendment is freedom of speech; SECOND amendment is right to bear arms.

[GPSGuided]

I think you are all missing the point of the US First Amendment here and why they are so reluctant to give it up. The First Amendment is to allow US citizens to defend themselves against the government not for self defense; although we may have had our right to self defense stripped from us it is still the law in the USA

That's one of those pathetic excuses used by those sinister gun lobbyists and mob supporters. Looking through modern history, there are plenty of national revolts against a government without guns, some even were supported in the background by the CIA for geopolitical reasons. Those countries that didn't have gun control, they get into a protracted and *&%$#! civil war. In the meantime, Americans who initiate armed revolts against their government were all quickly put down and got labelled as 'domestic terrorism' or considered to be 'nut cases'. 230 odd years since those words were inked, little did their forefathers realise that those words are now used by the deep pocketed gun/military industrial complex to sustain their business interests. NB. In 2014, U.S. small arms and ammunition industry held $41B of the economy and submitted $863M in federal and state tax revenue.

[Moondog55]

I totally disagree of course as I take my own inspiration from the Swiss system
A country where everybody except registered conscientious objectors own and use a whole gammut of firearms included self loading rifles, very accurate sniper rifles and sub-machine guns. I think at the moment the Swiss have 2.3 firearms fore every person able to vote
Note to self "Second Amendment"
Too much emotion attached to the firearms debate and very many far more serious matters to think about

[Travis22]

MD is right about the 2nd amendment.

The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The Founding Fathers, having just broken away from Great Britain, understood the new federal government they were ratifying might one day become just as tyrannical. If it had the authority to control citizen access to firearms, then it could disarm them, just as the British attempted to do. This would make any attempts to restore liberties futile.

The Second Amendment was specifically included in the Bill of Rights to prevent this.


What does this mean for us here in Australia, absolutely nothing.

Firearm ownership is a privelage not a right. But that doesnt mean just because some people dont like firearms they should all be banned from civilian ownership.

Has there ever been a case of a random member of the public being shot here in Australia while bushwalking? To my knowledge the very small number of people who have been accidently shot have been within the same group of hunters. I take away from this fact that the risk is so low and the hikers alone face so many other risks and the majority of these are all risks the individual has chosen to take by going hiking in the first place and their saftey isnt dependant on anyone elses actions but their own.

By going hiking we are not only indangering ourselves but should we get into trouble then we are forcing rescue personnel to risk their lives too, so maybe we should all stop bushwalking.

Afterall everything we do in this country is a privelage and not a right. There are so many acivities people do that risk, damage and destroy so many more lives then the perceived risk law abiding firearm owners pose yet because of the crap our media dishes up law abiding firearm owners are always public emeny number 1. The constant references to the USA is case in point. Australia is nothing like the USA!

Of course there will always be some outspoken folks running their mouths with silly idea's but how would everyone here feel if the majority one day decided to ban bushwalking because its too dangerous, there is no doubt in the world that there would be just as many people saying 'over my dead body etc'. Ive been shooting for almost my entire life, im an active target shooter who trains and competes weekly, of course any changes to the laws here will greatly effect my way of life. Why should I be punished when more and more and more we accept and allow the CRIMINALS to do whatever they dam well want with the bare minimal punishment.

Travis.

[ErichFromm]

Eric I wasn't crititcising Just trying to point out that they do things more slowly in the bush; much more slowly

No offence taken, but frustrating when basic statements seem to be twisted. So once again - there was no "conflict" in this situation. Neither from the guy in the car nor from me. I think too much has been made about the "don't worry mate" comment.

As to firearms not being dangerous on their own: I think many things are dangerous. I have high-end knives and I lock them away to ensure my son cannot touch them as he is not responsible enough to handle them safely. He is not a dangerous person. Equally if I knew a father of one of his friends had guns I would be cautious about allowing him to spend time with them. I've read too many stories about accidents, not by deliberate actions of dangerous people but by the general reality that accidents happen (I've got enough nicks on my fingers from sharpening my knives to prove that) and when accidents happen with something like a gun the results can be dramatic.

[Travis22]

Erich, the most dangerous thing you can do for your son later in life would be to try and shelter him from firearms and to pretend they dont exist.

If you want to bring him up enjoying the bush then there is a very good chance one day he will find himself out with friends and potentially someone who might have a firearm.

Why not head down to a local small bore club when he's old enough and introduce him firearms the right way, and instill in him a proper respect for firearms and their use. I guarantee you it will be an experience you will both enjoy and fact is it is one of the safest sports you could take your boy to.

Travis.

[vicrev]

Really strange comments here ...ErichFromm has genuine concerns & it almost sounds like an attempted whitewash of the situation by the "gun lobby"........If the person wanted to show his son/whatever how to discharge a firearm ,the only place is a Rambo Range, not a park......a bullet can travel 2k plus before impact,that''s a lot of area just hope nobodys walking/camping in the path of it.....A lot of us used to carry all sorts of firearms while walking but we are supposed to be more responsible & considerate of other people now.......as far as I am concerned if you want to do the firearm thing ,join the army,or go & live in the US,there are heaps of fellow travellers there........what sort of reasoning is the chances of being hit are very low ?? Does that justify discharging a firearm in/near a park ?? ,,, soldiers use autos to kill more people,not because they are not marksmen !!!!........say G 'day,nice kit & paint job you've got there P...L...E...A...S...E don't shoot me !! Wow!......

[ErichFromm]

Travis - you're a reasonable guy but I have to disagree on this. I don't feel any need to expose my son to guns. I never encountered them myself until I started hiking. They are not so common place that he is "bound to be in contact with them someday" or require me to teach safe use. I think it is more than likely that he will never need to be near them. If I take him camping and hiking i will give a wide berth and tell him he should always do the same. But I won't tell him that the people with the guns are bad people or in anyway dangerous themselves.

I am not anti-gun and don't believe that safe use by responsible people is something I need to have an opinion on. They are just not for me and I am respectful of how dangerous they can be.

I remember stumbling on a group of hunters at a hut on the lickhole (yes!) track. Nice enough guys but it made me wonder (given I'd run into a deer during the hike) where they were hunting and whether I should be wearing high vis clothing.... A big difference between guns and other potentially dangerous tools like knives or chainsaws is the scope of their impact. I would feel the same toward hunting with compound bows etc.

[Travis22]

Thanks Erich i totally understand where your coming from.

I guess I'm just playing the devils advocate a bit. Altho i do genuinely think target shooting is a healthier sport in the long run then AFL etc Sure its great watching the little tackers run around kicking a footy, but pretty soon parents turn crazy, fights break out, drugs creep in. Gambling, alcohol etc seems to all be promoted by our fantastic national game! Ive seen first hand so many lives destroyed by footy, gee i wish we would just ban that too while we're at it (ok enough talking crap)

I am exactly the same when out bush and if i come across people with firearms if i can i stay well away. Clearly a tension exists between both groups and ive seen both sides of it myself where other hunters think im an anti gun 'greenie' because im bushwalking or bushwalkers think were rednecks because they have seen us in camo clothing on a hunting trip etc.

In both situations the best thing to do is have a good old chat with the other party, but there have been incidences where i wouldnt even bother chatting to the bogans with guns if thats the type of 'hunters' they are, they are the ones i get well away from asap. They are the issue here and believe me everyone wants them gone!

Travis.

[ErichFromm]

Altho i do genuinely think target shooting is a healthier sport in the long run then AFL etc Sure its great watching the little tackers run around kicking a footy, but pretty soon parents turn crazy, fights break out, drugs creep in. Gambling, alcohol etc seems to all be promoted by our fantastic national game! Ive seen first hand so many lives destroyed by footy, gee i wish we would just ban that too while we're at it (ok enough talking crap)

You have a point with this. Though "impact" during an AFL game would imply something a little different than when applied to shooting

[neilmny]

...........not a park.............Does that justify discharging a firearm in/near a park ??

Just to clear a point vicrev, it wasn't a park it was a bush camp in a state forest.

[swills]

The bloke is breaking the law, by having an unsecured firearm while driving, probably unsecured ammo and if he has shot from a vehicle or while standing on a gazetted road then he is btreaking the law. Police in the North East have had a blitz on deer hunters in the past couple of months with very few charges being laid. I would forward his details on to the Police as they might do check on his storage of firearms and ammo. One less idiot in the bush and one less idiot to give me a bad name.

[Moondog55]

Only need to be a meter off the road and that's easily done. There's a reason very few charges were laid, most people are doing more than the right thing and most seasoned country police have a far more realistic approach to the regulations than city ones. Driving a ute myself I miss the safety of being able to keep my rifles locked in the cab out of sight rather than the steel locker on the tray

[puredingo]

Man, you people used to be about the music...you've changed.

[Moondog55]

Man, you people used to be about the music...you've changed.

Yep Just follow the money and who holds the power

[vicrev]

...........not a park.............Does that justify discharging a firearm in/near a park ??

Just to clear a point vicrev, it wasn't a park it was a bush camp in a state forest.

Sorry N, It's called a Seniors Moment..

[Moondog55]

I just Googled deaths by firearms and found that despite all the BS the USA is actually pretty low down on the list [ of course Australia is lower] but that despite all the firearms in Switzerland they are very well down [ military issue firearms are not counted in Switzerland and every male over 18 there is issued one for life] it isn't firearm ownership or use that is the problem.

[vicrev]

I just Googled deaths by firearms and found that despite all the BS the USA is actually pretty low down on the list [ of course Australia is lower] but that despite all the firearms in Switzerland they are very well down [ military issue firearms are not counted in Switzerland and every male over 18 there is issued one for life] it isn't firearm ownership or use that is the problem.

Google the people who have been shot by idiots with firearms........or,doesn't that come into the "gun lobby " equation?.........

[Moondog55]

Google the people who have been shot by idiots with firearms........or,doesn't that come into the "gun lobby " equation?.........

Vicrev That is exactly what I did, 12 firearm homicides for every 100,000 people isn't a lot Particularly when deaths from vehicular accident and crashes are over a hundred times greater and driving licences are harder to get over there compared to here
The figure of 20.6 per 100,000 includes suicides and accident hunting deaths, much better odds than crossing Hoddle Street at nite