fast hiking : real thing or just a gear selling scam ?

[perfectlydark]

Think of it this way..if your going to run wouldnt it be nicer on a trail than on a road?

[north-north-west]

It's not the age or inability to get fit that stop me - it's the injuries and joint problems (some from doing too much of this sort of thing when I was younger).

[Orion]

So as far as stopping and appreciating the view, well, I probably wouldn't have got to experience any of the view in the past year had it not been for beginning a running journey and joining our local running club.

Nice, Alittleruff. I can relate to that.

As a fledgling rock climber I was told not to bother climbing Half Dome until I could do it in a day. It's the reverse peer pressure from what you hear from walkers. If you're a wall climber you're doing it wrong if you're slow. But I thought: I may never do it in a day. So my friend and I spent several days climbing and we had a wonderful, memorable and slightly epic time. I was so happy I didn't listen to the those who told me to wait until I was better. I eventually did do it as day climb and it was a very different experience. Not really better. Different.

So it goes with walking as well. I go fast sometimes, slow sometimes. It's different.

Does a bird miss the view by flying so fast? It can't smell the flowers from way up there. Is it better to be a snail and taste every grain of dirt? I think those are different, complimentary experiences. I'd love to fly. But I like the taste of the dirt too.


To see a little of so much in a little time
-vs-
To see much of so little in a long a time.

[forest]

To see a little of so much in a little time
-vs-
To see much of so little in a long a time.

That's a great way of putting things.

Like Alittleruff I have two little kids and not the time for long multi day walks ATM. So running trails suits me and the time I have.
It all just started with a newborn and a dog that needed walking in a 30min window of time (Sleeping baby). Naturally I'd head towards the local bush strip.
Over time I'd wonder what's up that trail etc but still had the same limited time, so I started running bits. Seems a few years of multi day walks with a pack makes us kinda fit anyway.
So the run thing just kinda happened ??

Best bit is we are all regardless of pace enjoying the outdoors in our own way.

[wayno]

interesting article here of the effect of runners in the grand canyon

http://www.hcn.org/articles/grand-canyo ... dium=email

[Orion]

interesting article here of the effect of runners in the grand canyon

http://www.hcn.org/articles/grand-canyo ... dium=email

The author of that blog piece, Marjorie “Slim” Woodruff, has an attitude that makes it clear she can't see more than one side of an issue.

The problem in the Grand Canyon is one of numbers mostly. It's been a problem for a long time which is why there are strict quotas and getting a permit isn't easy. Day hiking has been an exception to the quotas but unfortunately the numbers are catching up there now as well.

I've done a couple rim to rim hikes in the Grand Canyon. They were wonderful. I'd have run if I were a runner. I'd have flown if I were a bird.

[wayno]

she's not wrong about the litter, ever go through an endurance event race course afterwards and it is likely to be littered with empty energy sachets..

[Turfa]

interesting article here of the effect of runners in the grand canyon

http://www.hcn.org/articles/grand-canyo ... dium=email

Wow, that article is so full of "holier than thou" attitude......and much of it just seems to be made up. The conversation she reports with the 'runner' in the last paragraph, tells that he went rim to rim in 11 hours. That is about 40km. Don't know many runners who would brag about averaging less than 4km/hr. .... That's a fairly relaxed walking trip !

[Hallu]

Yeah 11 hours is more like walking a rim to rim. But I agree that runners should not be allowed at all in that part of the Grand Canyon. Just like mountain bikers, they should have their own tracks instead. The mules is the main issue there, you can't have groups of runners on the same narrow track as wagons of mules... And for the Kaibab trail we're talking a narrow slippery trail, subject to heavy erosion, it's not made for runners at all.

[Orion]

edit: I'm so easily sucked in.

The age old debate...

[Alittleruff]

Trail run gear.jpg (48.78 KiB) Viewed 18902 times

Getting ready to trail run Thanks for the photo of your gear! I hope I haven't packed too much, or not enough. There will be 15 Marshall's out on the road, so I doubt I'll need most of it. Better to be safe than sorry though.

[Mark F]

As a non-runner, and rather slow walker my peeve is not runners or cyclists (or horse riders) per se but rather the assumption that seems all too pervasive that I must get out their way thus interrupting my walking rhythm and enjoyment so they may speed past without pause. If I don't cede passage I am often on the receiving end of an indication of displeasure.

The article does not draw this issue out but hints at it in several passages and may well be the rationale for the article to be written.

[Orion]

I often feel that way on local trails where there are runners, cyclists and equestrians. On narrow trails they don't mix well with people walking. But even other walkers who are either faster or slower can be a source of irritation when the numbers are large enough. Big groups of walkers are especially bad as they develop a kind of herd mentality, where they are oblivious to those around them.

That article mentioned four issues:

1. trash
2. human waste
3. etiquette in passing
4. philosophy/spirituality

The first two are debatable. She offered no proof that these are specifically due to runners, only her opinion.
The last one involves her personal beliefs.

But what about running? It's also a two-legged human activity. Should there really be a no jogging policy? Or a no passing rule? Or a speed limit?


What the Grand Canyon has actually done is to limit the numbers indirectly by requiring a special permit for any advertised group day hike. Their policy does not restrict running itself in any way.

Organized Group Rim-to-Rim and Extended Day Hike/Run

Any organized, noncommercial, group conducting rim-to-rim and extended day hiking and running, including rim-to-river-to-rim, and rim-to-rim-to-rim in the inner canyon is required to obtain a Special Use Permit from Grand Canyon National Park. The inner canyon is defined as the area below the Tonto Platform (Tipoff and Indian Garden) from the South Rim and below Manzanita Resthouse (Pumphouse Residence) from the North Rim. Any group, regardless of size, which has advertised to the general public, required individuals to sign up prior to participation, or that has an organizer who has been compensated for their services (including subsidized participation in the activity), is required to operate under a Special Use Permit. For more information visit http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/sup.htm

http://www.nps.gov/grca/planyourvisit/day-hiking.htm

[Alittleruff]

Golly Gosh!

I figured that running etiquette, would be very similar to walking etiquette, and mostly common sense. Runners as a whole are very used to having people both slower and faster paced, so I guess over time they have worked out how to pass people in a friendly manner.

I'm a slow runner, so I get off the path for the more serious runners.... yes... off the path or to the side. It's common courtesy. Where I can't do so, I will try to increase my pace, until there is room to pull over I realize it takes a heck of a lot of effort to get going again, so I tend to jog on the spot or my legs will cramp. Yes, I wait for cars like this too... they are faster. bigger than me and I will break stride and stop before being run over... even if "pedestrians have right of way." Why walkers wouldn't do this is beyond me. I guess the alternative to not letting people that are quicker than you pass is to have them a step behind you... jogging on the spot while you walk.

Runners that are overtaking, generally shout out "coming through on your right/left" so that walkers don't get a shock, runners warn the walkers so that everyone is safer.

Most trail events you need to carry all your rubbish out again. Simple. The big road events tend to have dedicated clean up crews to gather the cups/ energy sachets, jackets that are thrown ect, plastic bags that double as rain jackets.... It's known that there is a clean up crew. It's horrible, I know, but it is temporary. It's not like outside the nightclubs on a Sunday morning, where you find piles of spew and condoms, and questionable fast food, and the smell of wee

[Orion]

I figured that running etiquette, would be very similar to walking etiquette, and mostly common sense. Runners as a whole are very used to having people both slower and faster paced, so I guess over time they have worked out how to pass people in a friendly manner.

Unfortunately that's not always the case. The difference in speed and gait changes how passing takes place. The dynamic has a decidedly different quality to it than being passed by a faster walker.

In my experience it's mostly a numbers thing. If I get passed by a couple of walkers, runners, cyclists or horses it's no big deal. But when there are a lot of them it starts to become a problem.

The Grand Canyon issue is largely due to the increase in group day hike/run trips. That's something relatively new. It's likely made possible by the internet which has enabled otherwise unconnected people to come together. There are web sites specifically for this sort of thing.

[Drummo62]

In my experience it's mostly a numbers thing. If I get passed by a couple of walkers, runners, cyclists or horses it's no big deal. But when there are a lot of them it starts to become a problem.

I've passed lots of walkers while on training runs and while I usually get off the track if we are approaching from opposite directions walkers are a polite bunch and always wave me through. Its a bit trickier coming from behind as I try not to startle them.
I certainly have a lot of empathy for walkers when I come across them in an event. I recall walkers on the Great Ocean Walk one year that would have had the entire field of 100 runners go past them over a period of a few hours. Certainly would have detracted from their day walking but I would hope Parks would have made them aware of the event when they booked their hike.

[robertoman]

I have just spent a great day running the Hounslow Classic down through the Grose Valley behind Blackheath. It was hilarious watching both groups (runners and walkers) pollitely waving each other past. It got a bit embarrasing having them step aside and clap us past. Both groups were equally courteos from what I could see. Well done everybody

[Lophophaps]

Robertoman, I reckon that you have identified the key points - courtesy and respect. Subject to the land being able to sustain the traffic, there's room for everyone. Being considerate about others can go a very long way to accepting what seems strange: carting a heavy pack or not enjoying the slow pace. To me the most important aspect is that people get out there and enjoy nature, be it burdened with a pack or running lightly. Smiling and saying thank you assists.

[GPSGuided]

Trail run gear.jpg

Getting ready to trail run Thanks for the photo of your gear! I hope I haven't packed too much, or not enough. There will be 15 Marshall's out on the road, so I doubt I'll need most of it. Better to be safe than sorry though.

Where are you going with 9 tablets of something and what looked like 3 packets of condom? What are you expecting?

[Alittleruff]

GPSGuided............LMAO!!! Oh gosh, so funny!!! 9 tablets are panadol... I'll probably cut the packet down and leave most of them in the car. Condoms! LOL... oh gosh........ so funny... they are single use NUUN Hydration tablets that I can add to plain water during my run. They work really, really well! I've done a few trail runs lately and it's safe to say, I'll need them. I highly recommend having a few in your pack. I'll be doing the 21km in the Mitchell River NP, starting at Angusvale and finishing at the Den of Nargun car park, next SAT. It's part of the Australian Adventure Festival. So for anyone walking the track, it could get busy.. and that could also be great, if you like that kind of thing!

I did not for 1 second think that I'll be needing condoms.... not for one blooming second. I'm married, with three kids and as straight as you can get. Too funny!

For those that think that trail running doesn't allow you to "stop and enjoy nature". Sunday, I saw 1x red Belly Black snake, 1x wallaby (loads more close to the road while driving!), 1 x nesting lyrebird, plenty of birds. Maybe I just don't go fast enough! LOL. It was beautiful, and under the tree line it was cooler than running on roads/ pavement. Just takes me a lot longer.

[GPSGuided]

Ok, that's better. I was worried for a sec. So, how long are you expecting the run to be? 21km would be less than half a day?

[Alittleruff]

My last 1/2 Marathon distance, I ran 2hours 40 minutes.... This trail running stuff.... well.... lets just expect to double that! There is a rock scramble involved, and an ascent of 846m.... decent of 845m. Looking at the profile, there is 9 big hills. The smallest acending around 40meters over a distance of aprox 500m. The biggest of the hills looks like it acends 100m in around 800m. The biggest decend, is around 150m over 2km. I'm kind of worried about the hills... I don't think I can run them!!!

[GPSGuided]

That's a big step up to a 1/2 marathon! I trust the vertical distance is counted in your 21km. Tough run!