Bookings for Three Capes Track now open

[Azza]

17 000 helicopter trips to build it.

I wonder what that cost....

*sigh*

Helicopters cost over $1000/hr to run.
I presume by trip they probably mean short hops back and forth to ferry materials..

So probably looking at 10-20 million dollars helicopter bill..
That is quite obscene.

I can't help but feel they've gone way over the top on the track work. Did it need to be paved stone?
You could have built the huts, made the new track section and progressively upgraded the rest over time, based on actual numbers visiting.

[Nuts]

+1

I liked:
“The Three Capes Track has been and continues to be a large drain on tax-payers. Already $25 million dollars has been spent on the eastern half of the Three Capes Track and, because income from walkers will not cover the operational costs, tax-payers will be subsidising the operation of this luxury tourist attraction.”

Well... It sounds believable. Finger math says 48 people a day returns 4.5M$ if the public complex is full for six months of the year?
Is that possible? Standing alone, is even that a good ROI?

Personally I find the remote and discrete the most concerning (for another topic).

I see your efforts for the VP, well done, very thorough. Our politicians (and the broader non caring voter-base) should just stay our of our wild areas.

[stepbystep]

And yet forestry Tasmania continues to get bailouts on an annual basis that the dwarf the cost of this entire infrastructure build.

Regardless of whether you agree with the track or not it's always prudent to apply some sort of perspective in order to best direct your outrage....

[Nuts]

Typically double p.a from some earlier 'research'?
Other than as ammo I find it hard to focus on the beans. They are just beans.. tricky things can be done with them. As far as the outcome and potential, this, or more specifically this concept, deserves centre stage. There's not a lot of tangible substance in opposition though, to the bean driven and their ilk. On this one even the proponents can seem like conservationists: http://www.themercury.com.au/news/tasma ... y-comments

[Doonish]

The picture above is horrible, quite out of place. What troubles me is that this will be seen as the new norm. The plans for the private hut or the like on Halls Island on the Central Plateau south of the WOJ is a case in point.

Slightly off topic, but was chatting to the lessor of Halls Island the other day, who is getting on in years. Now I'd stress that I don't know the full details - but she was saying that the development was more directed towards maintaining the heritage, given that she and her husband are finding it increasingly difficult. Certainly there's the tourist component to fund it, but my sense from her is that it's likely to be sensitive.

[stepbystep]

The picture above is horrible, quite out of place. What troubles me is that this will be seen as the new norm. The plans for the private hut or the like on Halls Island on the Central Plateau south of the WOJ is a case in point.

Slightly off topic, but was chatting to the lessor of Halls Island the other day, who is getting on in years. Now I'd stress that I don't know the full details - but she was saying that the development was more directed towards maintaining the heritage, given that she and her husband are finding it increasingly difficult. Certainly there's the tourist component to fund it, but my sense from her is that it's likely to be sensitive.

Float planes landing on a tiny lake in the wilderness isn't 'sensitive' imho ....

[Doonish]

No, that's fair, and as I mentioned, I wasn't up to speed with all the details.

On further reflection, perhaps where I'm coming from is a curiosity about the individual aspects of some of these proposals...there's an interesting discussion to be had about Halls Island and its historical use (and how this could be modified) which could easily be lost in the general (and legitimate) concern. Mind, I suspect most of the stuff on the table doesn't have such complexities...

[scrub boy]

Total capital expenditure of three capes track is about 25M (publicly available information as it was an infrastructure deal between commonwealth and tas gov) plus a extra 4 which I think is for the western side. The 25M includes everything including planning, Cape Hauy, track, huts etc., so helicopter costs would be nothing like the 10-20M estimate of Azza's. The debate is there to be had (impact, cost etc) but there is a lot of bad info, some of the stuff on the Tas Times site for example is laughable (re Ted Mead) and sometimes I have a sense people just want it to fail (Ted again!). The fact is it's built and hopefully it will succeed and have been worth the money. But I don't see this is as something that is going to proliferate across the wha for example, it has taken ten years to get it to this point and is obviously very expensive even at 25M. I doubt I'll do it any time soon, too expensive and I'm anti social and would rather be in the scrub but I don't begrudge those who will no doubt love it, it will certainly be a unique experience. Maybe when my knees finally give out and i'm in comfortable retirement......

[flyfisher]

The picture above is horrible, quite out of place. What troubles me is that this will be seen as the new norm. The plans for the private hut or the like on Halls Island on the Central Plateau south of the WOJ is a case in point.

Slightly off topic, but was chatting to the lessor of Halls Island the other day, who is getting on in years. Now I'd stress that I don't know the full details - but she was saying that the development was more directed towards maintaining the heritage, given that she and her husband are finding it increasingly difficult. Certainly there's the tourist component to fund it, but my sense from her is that it's likely to be sensitive.

Float planes landing on a tiny lake in the wilderness isn't 'sensitive' imho ....

Couldn't agree more sbs, we went through all this stuff years ago re float planes and helicopters.

Flyfisher

[Nuts]

I was wondering where some of those figures came from (in TT comments) scrubboy, perhaps the assumption that the commercial tour buildings will be publicly funded?
Or are they just another room called 'the luxury suite' with a guide and room service, fee's collected by p&w, line drawn.. )

Nevertheless, this aside, some of the proposals (in WHA) involve multiple buildings and outbuildings, there's no reason to suspect that's not just how they'll look.

[scrub boy]

I was wondering where some of those figures came from (in TT comments) scrubboy, perhaps the assumption that the commercial tour buildings will be publicly funded?
Or are they just another room called 'the luxury suite' with a guide and room service, fee's collected by p&w, line drawn.. )

Nevertheless, this aside, some of the proposals (in WHA) involve multiple buildings and outbuildings, there's no reason to suspect that's not just how they'll look.

Possibly Nuts, the commercial huts are separate (an additional footprint of course, although much smaller, only for 13 people I think) and are to be built and paid for by the operator but even so it's hard to understand for example where Ted's figure of 40M already spent comes from! These huts are for 48 people plus staff and are pretty big for sure (and lots of water tanks required in that area), can't see any commercial hut in the wha being anything like this, more likely to be like the existing ones on the OLT for same size groups I would think although despite the general acceptance of these over time more of the same is not to everyones taste or viewpoint. The exception might be the proposal near lake rodway which is described as a 'lodge style experience', a tricky one, if it goes ahead I hope they have a really good design and find the right site, avoid the need for a cleared bushfire zone and have internal toilets like the commercial OLT huts. The eastern side of Cradle is in many ways its most spectacular.

[Nuts]

Perhaps it's a projection on what needs to be accounted for (now) to complete? I don't know, tbh struggle to be interested, if someone is looking for a way to express their concern (preferably factual as the facts should be enough) at development within the public estate they have my full support.

Iv'e not seen proposals on the new WHA developments down to design detail?, aside, on the OLT they at least represent a doubling of current capacity?/ I assume buildings? If not a 'complex', an entirely new footprint (or permit to make one)?

There is nowhere within the Rodway Valley already impacted to any extent where a new building complex wont represent a major, destructive incursion (except, in a wince, perhaps attached to the SK Hut) I'm sure we could all imagine the prime real estate in that valley.., where we would build if given such an opportunity? To build in that valley, have park service support to do so, is anathema to the charge we have given them to Protect, especially, World Heritage. Personally, this one is a standout, not that they shouldn't be seen collectively, we can only 'progress' from here.

Begrudge is a term (elitist is another), as far as i'm concerned the estate is almost perfect, unnecessary incursion is forced on those, invested for generations, who expect these areas set aside for minimal impact recreation at most. Others begrudge us the expectation that our wilderness is in safe hands (and i'm not Ted nor, to most, a 'greenie'). Does it really matter if it's an exclusive tent site or exclusive urban sprawl? To what end, a (poor) parody of kiwi rambling with our own unique attributes diminished?

The topic quickly diverges from the Tasman. Personally iv'e done a pack walk, a few day walks and car camping, a kayak trip, well out of my experience (other than a general, related foreboding as this unfolds).

[weetbix456]

The eastern side of Cradle is in many ways its most spectacular.

Agreed. One of my favourite easily accessible areas in the state

Again, big concerns for the impact of future "projects."

[aloftas]

just a comment on the values "we" could/perhaps should hold.

Id put egalitarianism, at the pinnacle of these values.

The Australian way.


Not some hipster muppet directing policy stab in the dark mentality.


No offence inferred to muppets.


Soo 25 mil at 500 bucks a trip is what 2,000 trips to the mil?

That 25 million bucks will take 2, 000 x 25 punters to make it pay


By the time the sea level rises to cover it, is about how long that will take.

Anyway.

God Bless

[corvus]

Are they really proposing a PRIVATE HUT tour in the pristine Rodway Valley?? I thought that you could already book a paid guided trip around this Magic area so why duplicate? who is behind this and who will be paying for the track upgrades required to protect the area ?
Perhaps this should be a separate thread so more attention is drawn to this IMHO stupid proposal.

[corvus]

Just to clarify I don't mean the area where SKH is but a pristine site not far from there in the Valley.

[north-north-west]

What an experience...

Trying to come up with a reaction that doesn't involved a plethora of the sort of words this forum doesn't permit. Can't.

[Lophophaps]

NNW, quite. A number of words occur to me as well. Is it permitted to use rude words in Swahili or Aramic? No matter. Peter Arnett wrote about Bến Tre city in Vietnam on 7 February 1968:
'It became necessary to destroy the town to save it', a United States major said today.

Similarly, it might be said that the beautiful natural Three Capes environment was destroyed so that people could enjoy ... um, wilderness? Suburbia? Not much? Surely there was a way to have a smaller impact.

[Hermione]

Like north-north-west my initial response involves expletives. Making an effort to express my reaction in a more civilised manner I decided that looking at this photo is just depressing; or after consulting the thesaurus : black, bleak, disheartening, dismal, dispiriting, distressing, hopeless, joyless.......
Anyway needless to say I won't be spending $500 to stay in some ridiculously large hut in the middle of a wasteland!

[wayno]

they are copying NZ great walks, only far worse..

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

they are copying NZ great walks, only far worse..

That was my initial thought too.

[Lophophaps]

they are copying NZ great walks, only far worse..

Victoria may be next. From my submission:
"9 Mt Feathertop and the Razorback are in a Conservation zone - "Areas of high natural value where the emphasis is on protection of the environment." The Preliminary concept plan for the proposed Falls-Hotham walk (“the walk Plan”) implies that there will be a new demountable standing camp or hut near Feathertop or approaches. This is contrary to Conservation zone values."

[Nuts]

Mealy mouthed with little left but cliche's and some level of outrage. This was to be expected of course, and concern will fall by the wayside given time, it always does, leaving few truly disaffected in any tangible way. But the time to express concern for other areas, or the estate generally, is now, not later.

[Nuts]

http://www.themercury.com.au/lifestyle/ ... 0ed069dfdc

Screen Shot 2015-12-21 at 1.53.27 PM.png (19.21 KiB) Viewed 16248 times

[Nuts]

All going swimmingly & some photo's from the actual ground ;

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 296&type=3

[aloftas]

All going swimmingly & some photo's from the actual ground ;

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 296&type=3

I hope the huts have a latte machine.

[Nuts]

Yes of course, can't deny access to the latte dependent, discriminant against most of the suitable client base.

[aloftas]

Yes of course, can't deny access to the latte dependent, discriminant against most of the suitable client base.

I was using a sense of imbued irony.

I do feel however, that the bushcraft sense of this whole thing has been bleached and laundered to such a state that in many ways, the ability to spend huge bucks is all that is required for a "meaningful outdoors experience"


Sadly, some of us, aren't os tourists carrying purple bears.



I cant stand latte, just for the record.

[Nuts]

Merry Xmas Al, best wishes to you.

[RichB]

Yes Nuts thats why all Tasmanians who love the natural treasures we have, need to tell this parasitic govt to *&%$#! off, and ignore their demands for money..