Food Drops

[Lagaro]

Some really good thoughts and opinions here!

Iluvswtas, I deliberately picked on the SW beach to be provocative. That was a bit below the belt, but I wanted to make the point that there are practices that are "unacceptable" to everyone. Different people have different levels of acceptance. This is a public forum so we should - just my humble opinion - we should aim for sustainable practices that everyone can participate in (i.e practices that are sustainable even when everyone does participate).

It seems to me that food drops are one of those practices that are marginal when only a few people know about it, but if everyone did the same thing it could become a real problem.

I am coming round to tasadam's and WalkinTas' view also, would I like to be responsible for digging a big hole anywhere in the bush (toiletry aside) absolutely not. I am going to ask the question from now on with everything I do hiking: Can everyone do this sustainably and if not I must'nt do it!

Some cool heads on this site! Thanks to everyone for the food for thought!

Kind regards, Lagaro.

[ILUVSWTAS]

I'm just asking you guys to justify what your doing -

Keeping ourselves alive not good enough for you??

And as I said, I wouldnt dig a great hole to bury food in, it's hard enough to dig a big hole to take a crap in. Who could be bothered doing any more digging... I'd make it secure and leave it somewhere safe! Amongst some rocks or something.

[walkinTas]

Keeping ourselves alive not good enough for you??

I wonder if that is the true reason you are doing it, surely that's just the excuse. Are you honestly leaving food in the bush, hoping it will be there when you return, and knowing or thinking that if it isn't you will die? Sounds a bit too Burke & WIlls ish for my liking.

Please, just tell me if you think this is a good thing for everyone to do. Yes or no! It is perfectly all right for everyone that walks up and down the south coast track (or any other track) to leave parcels of food behind rocks and hidden in the bush. You are honestly comfortable with everyone doing this.

Any way, I've said my bit. I'll leave it there.

[Lagaro]

I would not have dug the barrel in if I had set it up in the first place! Would just secure it somewhere like ILUVSWTAS said.
It was "dug in" with authorization from Parks, I am trying to encourage my "Friend" to come on the site and explain the original purpose of the caches.
My use of it now is like using Windy Ridge Hut, I have no right to remove it, and now the damage is done it shouldn't go to waste.
I can also carry 2 weeks worth of food so I hope others can appreciate the kind of mission that would require the use of such a cache
I have used caches before but they have been lunchbox sized and just "hidden in the bush". All of them have been collected, including one that I had to make a special trip for. (If i'm not peak sharing, I still enjoy just being out there, anywhere).

P.S. The ULTIMATE cache is a car packed full of goodies for the end of a trip!
Maybe a "coldie" secured in a cold stream? Oh no here we go again...

[ILUVSWTAS]

I wonder if that is the true reason you are doing it, surely that's just the excuse. Are you honestly leaving food in the bush, hoping it will be there when you return, and knowing or thinking that if it isn't you will die? Sounds a bit too Burke & WIlls ish for my liking.

Well I certainly wouldnt be making an extra trip in carrying the stuff just so I could have a scoff out when I arrive at the remote location. Im 67kg's and dont need to stuff my face every 5 mintues with junk. Im kinda lost as to why you think there would be any other reason for it?

And yes I do think if people want to do an EPIC walk not taking them near civilization for weeks, then they are more than welcome to leave a food stash somewhere. No problem at all!!

And a coldie at the car goes without saying on long walks doesnt it?

[Nuts]

Maybe a "coldie" secured in a cold stream? Oh no here we go again...

Hey, now yer standin' on thin ice bud

[tasadam]

Maybe a "coldie" secured in a cold stream? Oh no here we go again...

Ah, yes, I remember that!

wine-stream.jpg (128.09 KiB) Viewed 10997 times

[Nuts]

mmmm,
and your neXt walk is planned to leave from? ____________.
And you will be drving a ____________.

Last edited by Nuts on Thu 08 Oct, 2009 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tasadam]

mmmm,
and your net walk is planned to leave from? ____HOME____.
And you will be drving a ____CAR_____.

[Nuts]

I'm interested by this post, no offences, just like more info....

[quote="Lagaro"9. IMHO Parks policy can just be ignored they just cover mud with duckboards... end of story.

Sorry! I had a bit of a think about number 9 and decided it is just plain unfair!
What I really meant is that myself, and alot of other walkers I know, only take notice of what Parks say when it suits us

And people wonder, short of 'locking things up' why education, rehabilitation and sheer frustration has not led to better outcomes...

You only have to look at Windy ridge Hut or whomever it is named after to see how effective Parks as an entity is to see how badly a Parks policy on something like food drops would end up!

'Windy Ridge Hut', has a few initial problems (as anyone involved in such buildings will tell you, is normal) but I'm interested in why you have such a dislike for it? Do you have expert knowledge? Have you stayed there 'in the hut'? What major improvements do you think are needed?

Rangers they are another story, I met one last year at Waterfall valley who wanted to burn Pelion plain to stop the encroachment of Trees!

You met A ranger.... That would be rare, sure they were even a ranger?

I know one who DID set fire to Lee's Paddocks!
I know other rangers that actively destroy and remove track markers and cairns in certain areas!
That fuel stove only is a good one though! [/quote]

Y Do you have a job, what do you do?

Last edited by Nuts on Fri 09 Oct, 2009 11:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Son of a Beach]

You seem to have a lot of answers, do you have a job, what do you do?

This is probably getting a little below the belt (the inferences whether intended or not). Please keep it polite and friendly from all corners.

[Nuts]

Yer, ok, i do get a bit irked by some of these generalisations, and probably wouldnt if similar hadnt come up before. Even though my questions probably do reflect my personal view, i do generally only add a (?) to the end if i'm genuinely open to a response... Perhaps something 'unpredictable' will come up...

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

Last edited by Ent on Mon 15 Nov, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Nuts]

Yes Brett, as part owner of all the streams in Tassy parks, and therefore their contents. I hereby give you permission.

[Lagaro]

Can't seem to justify that first point, yo have me Nuts!

Yes stayed in Windy Ridge Hut, to explain my objections to it would be too much for one post.
Needless to say that a leaking roof and ALL of the laserlights in the dining room leaking I would love to know the builders
that think they are "initial problems" how old is the hut now? That building was going to start popping seals as soon as the heater was first cranked up! Just look at slope of the ceiling and tell me that heat will be distributed evenly enough to stop unbalanced expansion!

I have met plenty of people employed by "Parks" to be specific. Some of them have identified themselves as "Rangers"
if you mean there is no such thing then maybe we are getting into semantics... in which case I am probably mistaken.

I go on an overnight walk nearly every weekend for the past 9 years (say 45 weekends a year)! Plus I had 9 months off work last year dedicated to walking! I get out and about alot.
10 hour walking days are nothing!
I regularly finish work at 1800 in Hobart on a friday night and by 2400 I am fast asleep at Pelion Hut or Trappers
So as a consequence I probably see alot more of whats going on out there than most. Not limted to the OT just an example.
Also can do the same thing and end up on the Western Arthurs just at 0200 the next day!
I have spent many a day spying on other walkers to survey their habbits!

I do have a job

Many of the claims I have made in this topic may be hard to substantiate, hearsay etc... but I am not lying/exagerating
and I am most sincerely happy to continue this thread and I feel that Nuts posts are appropriate. This is obviously something he is passionate about and I respect that.
I do change my ways when I see reason so you're arguments are not fruitless!

P.S. Nuts, can I get an all year pass on the Creek eski's so I don't have to keep asking permission?

Kind Regards, Legaro

[corvus]

(quote
So as a consequence I probably see alot more of whats going on out there than most. Not limted to the OT just an example.

I have spent many a day spying on other walkers to survey their habbits!





Kind Regards, Legaro [/quote]

Hey Lagaro dont you be a radin my cold creek eskies some folks have bin known to suffer death from doin this
Walking every weekend ! you need to get a wife or is that why you head off whenever you can so she can cut the grass and tub the cars and do all off the domestic chores us mere mortals need to do of a weekend
Oh ! and I just realised that you must be a fan of " The "Police" caus you seem to be doing some "every breath you take every move you make I'l be watching you" hope you don't frighten the tourists
corvus

[Nuts]

No worries Lagaro,

Didn't mean to challenge your experience

Have you put your concerns with WR hut to anyone? (BTW Bert Nichols first blazed the southern end of what is now the OT).

The ranger question was meant in the context that there are many people working for parks, even wearing uniforms, very few that you would meet on the OT would be 'rangers'. Although those that work out there deserve respect there Can be a vast difference between the opinions of casual employees and those that have been around long enough to know better. IME The most obvious 'issues' and 'conclusions' are often either only minor in reality (or barely the tip of the iceberg..) It does those few outstanding park staff no justice to be subject to many generalisations. Would appear to me to be the very reason behind examples where outcomes aren't successful and why so many good people are lost to the service.

Spying on walkers eh?? That is illegal in many states

For an annual fee (say $99.99) I will grant you an 'all-parks' eski pass. Details of dates and locations can be submitted with your application. Eftpos accepted to make the transaction smoother...

[geoskid]

Ok, I'll be a bit more sensible - if everyone else will be. Before you do anything in the bush in general and particularly in a NP ('cause they're special), I think you should stop an ask yourself if it would be reasonable for everyone else to do the same thing. Tens of thousands of people walk through our parks every year. So you think it is a reasonable thing for you to bury food near Pelion hut. What if everyone else did the same thing. Is it not a reasonable thing for them as well. So that's 1000 barrels of food buried at Pelion hut. Sound reasonable? Would 2000 barrels be reasonable? What about 10,000? Where do you draw the line - when is it no longer a reasonable thing to let happen? Is that the bush you want to walk in? If it isn't something that everyone should be doing then it probably isn't something that anyone should be doing.

I think you can apply this test to everything you do on a walk. Ok to remove two or three rock at the rivers edge? So what if 100 people did the same thing? That's 300 rocks removed? Ok to relieve yourself beside the track? So what if the next 1000 walkers do the same thing? If its good enough for you to do it, why not everyone else?

Good on you walkinTas, i'ts a sound principle and not only do I agree with( "I think you can apply this test to everything you do on a walk."), I'ts a principle that should? include life in general - However where is the allowance for individuality?
Individuals for themselves? - within a caring framework?

[walkinTas]

...However where is the allowance for individuality? Individuals for themselves? - within a caring framework?

This is a huge question. Or rather a series of huge questions. They are way bigger than this forum and I'm not sure I could do justice to the answers.

At the serious risk of boring some....

People talk about "rights" a lot. I wonder where people think their individual rights come from. Who/what gives an individual the right to do anything. If you think your rights come from a 'Constitution' or a 'bill of rights' or some law, then you are only talking about rights within your particular society (that is geos caring framework). And there is another very big question here - does society give its members rights, or do the people collectively choose to give up certain rights in the interest of a workable society?

One problem with thinking that right are given to us by society is that this also means right can be taken away. But we think of rights as being something we all have. If we all have the same rights and these rights can't be taken from us, then were did they come from, and what are they?

Some people argue that certain rights are God given. Ok, that solves one problem, now only God can take the rights away. However, those who do not share one's particular religious belief are not so likely to be convinced with this argument. So, could we possible have right because with are individual and human that weren't just granted to us by society or bestowed by a benevolent deity?

You might be interested to know that this question is a very old question. The idea of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" dates back at least to Thomas Hobbs (1650s). Even Socrates himself ask the question what are human rights, and how do we determine them?

Anyway, I told you it was a big question. And yes, I haven't answered it. And yes there are hundreds of thoughts omitted from these comments in the interest of keeping it short, but I will end by saying there is room for individuality. There must be room for individuality. How boring it would be if we were all the same. Ok, there has to be two genders so we can't ALL be the same.

Maybe one day we can sit around a circle of stones and pretend its a camp fire while we discuss all of this. No, we'd have to move the stones! What if everyone moved a dozen stones to make a ring?

[Ent]

Content removed by poster

Last edited by Ent on Mon 15 Nov, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[tomberli]

Generally, yes. I've used the food drop at Melaleuca a few times and I think when you label it clearly people understand the seriousness of a food-drop and leave it in place. I have worked for a few outdoor companies and they tend to have all sorts of goodies stacked out in the bush. Its usually not too hard to hide something well enough that it can't be found too easily.