National park fees for foreigners scoped

[GPSGuided]

A few places tax tourist arrivals

http://www.ibtimes.com.au/thailand-slap ... 14-1320927

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2013/07/15/v ... urist-tax/

http://m.state.gov/md20129.htm

Those US charges/taxes are pretty standard and are applied to all general travellers. As for Thai and Vietnam, well, they are in the developing country category and for those from developed first world countries, they are still 'very cheap' as holiday destinations.

NZ will just lower themself in international perception if they do so.

[Nuts]

$17ea would cover the current national budget?, i'd happily pay a share. I'd pay $50 more (there, here and everywhere) to know parks were also safe from developers avarice / stay affordable & accessible for locals.

[GPSGuided]

It's a bottomless pit. Picking up one revenue stream has never stopped the development of even more revenue streams for those who are bent on money. Just naive to think otherwise.


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[Walking_addict]

Is this differential pricing good for NZ's national image and tourism trade?

I couldnt give a stuff. DOC are over worked and under resourced because of international tourism and htey need a big injection of money to resource htem appropriately

It's already expensive to do walks in NZ, making it higher is going to hurt DOCS mid to long term.
And it won't stop the people that abuse the system by not paying hut fees, and of course these are the people that will more likely be the ones that don't respect the bush too !!

There is one way to fix DOCS funding problems, there is a need to police these illegal stays more, introduce fines (big ones) for people breaking the rules, not penalise the ones that are doing the right thing, and respect the huts and NZ wilderness.

[izogi]

Which Aussie state charge an extra entry fee on overseas visitors?

Australia discriminates on rights and services available between Citizens and Residents and people on non-expiring Special Category Visas for heaps of things, even when all of the above have lived and worked and established lives long term in Australia and paid identical levels of taxes towards everything the government does. That's really Australia's choice but any individual thing like that doesn't seem too dissimilar to the possibility of NZ differentiating charging for park use being NZ's choice. But as far as I can tell, you're right that entry to parks isn't one of the things Australia differentiates on. Places in Australia with park access fees just charge the same for everyone who turns up.

In NZ's case I tend to agree that the funding problems for the conservation estate go deeper than impacts from overseas tourists. Without a serious plan to invest in recreation and biodiversity of the Conservation Estate, the most serious issues aren't going to be solved by setting up an entirely new bureaucracy to collect fringe amounts of cash from people who voters care less about... but that seems to be the way things are going based on what's coming out of the big tourism conference that's on right now. (TIANZ generally wants DOC to charge overseas visitors, because it has some members that don't like competing with experiences given away for free.)

Last edited by izogi on Fri 13 May, 2016 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

[wayno]

you'll never catch those not paying, theres not enough DOC staff to police the huts, you can have a ticket or money and give it to the ranger if they turn up or hang on to it if they dont.

[izogi]

And it won't stop the people that abuse the system by not paying hut fees, and of course these are the people that will more likely be the ones that don't respect the bush too !! There is one way to fix DOCS funding problems, there is a need to police these illegal stays more, introduce fines (big ones) for people breaking the rules, not penalise the ones that are doing the right thing, and respect the huts and NZ wilderness.

Well, one of the biggest problems with hut fees is that they're generally unenforceable in most places. Unless there's an authority present in a hut at the time people are staying there (overnight), it's impossible to prove that the person who hasn't produced a hut ticket was using the hut illegally. Anyone with an intent to break the rules can just buy a few spare hut tickets to carry around, on the occasional chance that there might be a warden at the hut they choose to spend the night at, but without otherwise spending them.

The latest alternative to hut fees is to require people to carry access passes instead. So instead of having specific hut fees you'd be required to have a pass for entering the area. Wardens can then demand to see it at any time, instead of having to catch people in the act.

It definitely has its down-sides, and as it amounts to an entry fee for the park. It's also against the law right now under both the National Parks Act and the Conservation Act (depending on the land in question), both of which explicitly state that entry to the respective type of conservation land is free. That guarantee of free entry was put in law for careful reasons at the time, and it's not a small thing to be changed on a whim without considering really carefully all of the consequences it might have.

Last edited by izogi on Fri 13 May, 2016 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

[GPSGuided]

Australia discriminates on rights and services available between Citizens and Residents and people on non-expiring Special Category Visas for heaps of things, even when all of the above have lived and worked and established lives long term in Australia and paid identical levels of taxes towards everything the government does. That's really Australia's choice but any individual thing like that doesn't seem too dissimilar to the possibility of NZ differentiating charging for park use being NZ's choice. But as far as I can tell, you're right that entry to parks isn't one of the things Australia differentiates on. Places in Australia with park access fees just charge the same for everyone who turns up.

I think you'll find this form of 'resident discrimination' based on visa status is common internationally and well accepted to be a norm, often also influenced by international treaties with reciprocal statuses b/n countries eg. Medicare. These issues are quite different to those who enter the country on tourist visas, those who are here as true guests, who are here to specifically spend their disposable income in the country. It's fine to pay a one stop entry fee through their tourist visa application but trying to pick them out at tourist attractions through the stay would come across badly for the 'NZ brand', just as for how most of us hate 'tourist traps' and those taxi drivers who rip off tourists. Reflects badly on the experience and country, a very short sighted solution.

[Walking_addict]

Well, one of the biggest problems with hut fees is that they're generally unenforceable in most places. Unless there's an authority present in a hut at the time people are staying there (overnight), it's impossible to prove that the person who hasn't produced a hut ticket was using the hut illegally. Anyone with an intent to break the rules can just buy a few spare hut tickets to carry around, on the occasional chance that there might be a warden at the hut they choose to spend the night at, but without otherwise spending them.

Hmm, yeah easy to see how some could take advantage, I guess only large penalties MIGHT encourage more to do the right thing, especially if it is reported a bit more in the media.
Word gets around in the circle of 'economically deficient' tourists.

I guess if you were walking Caples to Routeburn like us, and only needing the three hut tickets for one night at Mid Caples, you would need to produce these on demand to a ranger ?
Are hut tickets dated ?
Maybe this needs to happen for expected dates of stays in huts, as well as which huts ?

No easy answer, as if there's a way to get around paying a fair share, some people will find it and 'work' it !!

[wayno]

great walks hut tickets during the booking season are dated for specific huts, non booked hut tickets have an indefinite useage period

[roysta]

I'm with you on this Wayne.
The facts are that DOC has had its financial guts ripped out.
It's a case of surviving in this environment.
Any fee though, needs to be channelled to DOC rather than to consolidated revenue.
I get across the ditch two or three times a year and a levy won't stop me coming.
It's simply too *&%$#! good to stay away from.
The withdrawal symptoms would be a killer.


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[wayno]

thanks Roysta
remember DOC have to administer a third of NZ's land mass which is around the size of Victoria.. theres a thousand huts in there and tens of thousands of kilometres of tracks and millions of native animals to try and protect from millions of predators...

[roysta]

This is where the NZ national estate misses Helen Clark.
These characters currently in power are a bunch of environmental vandals.
They're like conservative governments in most places, unfortunately.
DOC are doing surprisingly well considering, but crunch time isn't far off.


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[wayno]

John key was an investment banker and still acts like one.. DOC staff work incredibly hard and do a lot of unpaid overtime...