A canyoning sub-forum on bushwalk.com?

[FatCanyoner]

G'day,

I think I may have casually suggested this at some point a while ago, but I thought it might be worth putting in this section to see what others think.

Most canyoners are bushwalkers (hence the decent number of canyoners on this forum already). Currently there is no forum like bushwalk.com for canyoners (and despite occasional plans, nothing seems too likely). While the ozcanyons yahoogroup works alright, those email lists are quite limiting.

Given all that, I think it could really make sense for bushwalk.com to create a canyoning topic, maybe with some sub-menus for canyoning specific gear / technical info / track notes / trip reports etc. It wouldn't need to be broken by down state -- given there isn't that many good canyoning areas.

Just an idea. Keen for some feedback. Personally I'd really love to have a bit more canyoning / abseiling discussion on here.

Tim

[kyle]

Throw in some more rope stuff and I'm right there, there is other climbing forums around the area (qurankingalong) but there is also a lot of big heads around those areas as well. I work in Rope Access and do a fair bit of climbing/abseiling working in Outdoor Education as well. Would be nice to have a place to throw in some of those extra-curricular walking activities.

[walkinTas]

I like the suggestion. If only I were a bit younger. And fitter.

[Son of a Beach]

I don't have much idea on how well it would work or not, but from a forum admin's point of view, if you could compile a list of links to canyoning related topics that are already on the forums (ie, a list of topics that would be in the new sub-forum if it existed) that would be very useful to the team here to decide on if it is worthwhile or not. Basically, the team can look at the number of posts and the frequency of new topics and see how active such a sub-forum might be.

Also, keep in mind that we cannot create a sub-forum for each and every area that people might like. Although categorising topics is a good thing to do, having too many categories makes the forums more difficult to navigate. But the above suggestion would be a start for any evaluation and feasibility analysis.

[ollster]

You could have an "other adventure sports" subforum? That way the climbing/biking/kayaking/canyoning crossovers could chat there. Maybe under "Sidetrack"?

[Son of a Beach]

Sounds a bit more feasible.

[north-north-west]

Yay!!! Somewhere for the cavers, too!

[ollster]

Yay!!! Somewhere for the cavers, too!

FREAKS!

[Son of a Beach]

Can I suggest that if people want such a sub-forum, that they post a list of links to topics that already exist here that could be grouped into such a new sub-forum.

It's likely that only after that happens would the team here seriously consider creating a sub-forum for them (if there is enough of them, and such new topics get posted regularly enough).

[FatCanyoner]

You could have an "other adventure sports" subforum? That way the climbing/biking/kayaking/canyoning crossovers could chat there.

I think that could work well. There is probably more connection between the various pursuits that require ropes (canyoning, abseiling, caving and climbing). There are other climbing forums in Aus that are very good. There are absolutely no online canyoning forums, which is why I think you'd get a bit more interest there. Of course pack rafting, kayaking, cycle touring, mountain biking etc are all pursuits many bushwalkers share.

Can I suggest that if people want such a sub-forum, that they post a list of links to topics that already exist here that could be grouped into such a new sub-forum.

Here's my input on this request. A collection of gear / trip reports that are all linked:
- Bluegum Forest - alternate route: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10971
- Abseiling trip: Africa Wall and Kilimanjaro: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10987&p=145817
- Aldi climbing helmet: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10455&p=138707
- When should you retire carabiners after a fall?: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10611&p=140760
- Review: adidas Hydro Pro shoes: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10456
- First ever Aussie FreezeFest: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=10371
- North TAS walking- informal group: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10225
- Toxic metal contamination found in Grose Valley: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=9922&p=131677
- Edelrid Canyon rope: 9mm polypropylene core static: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9608&p=127266
- Canyoning footwear -- a review of a couple options from 5.10: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9200
- A weekend of canyoning at Glen Davis: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=9199
- Death of the Dunlop Volley: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8826
- A week of remote canyoning in the Coorongooba Labyrinth: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=8827&p=116830
- 2 day Canyoning Trip: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8189
- Access to Claustral / Thunder canyons: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=8048
- Canyoning and other outdoor pursuits: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7606
- Is risking your own life really fair on others?: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5454
- Petzyl Piranha: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5154
- Grand Canyon Reopened: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4396
- Wollangambe River Tragedy: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3394
- Anyone Interested in Packraft Training ?: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10873
- 14 Days Rafting the Franklin River: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=9160
- Which kayak?: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8331
- PackRafting: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7818
- Wollemi creek: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=5861
- Packrafting cox's river: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4515

That's just a quick start to demonstrate that there is a fair bit of discussion around these tops already on the bushwalk.com forum.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks FC, that's a good start.

I just need to let you know that due to administrative issues here at the moment, this may or may not get action from the team here in the short term. However, if you don't have an official 'yes' or 'no' response from us after, say, another 3 months. Please start hassling us again at that time.

In the mean time, please keep collecting and posting more links like those in the list you just posted, and feel free to keep discussing it further here.

[FatCanyoner]

Thanks mate. Will do.

By the way, what ever happened with the site being sold? Is there a new 'management team' that I should lobby?

[Son of a Beach]

Still looking into that possibility.

[FatCanyoner]

I thought I read something six months back saying it had happened. I don't pay enough attention to the logistics. I'll hang tight then.

Hopefully some others can dig out some posts re caving / kayaking / cycling / mountain biking etc that I'm sure exist on these forums if we are going to look at a bit of a combined "others" section.

[north-north-west]

Yay!!! Somewhere for the cavers, too!

FREAKS!

And proud of it!

[FatCanyoner]

I figured I'd provide an update here, given I started this topic nearly six years ago. After a couple years where life / work / kids / personal issues drastically reduced my capacity to get into the bush or engage in online forums, I've re-emerged. I decided it was finally time to put my money (or at least effort) where my mouth was and get the ball rolling on this. So I've created a forum for Australian canyoners that -- like Bushwalk.com -- will hopefully develop into a sustainable community of people whose shared knowledge and experiences can enrich our community. Below is a summary of what I'm hoping to achieve with it. I'd love it if people could check out the new forum (https://canyoning.org.au/forum/), join it if you share the canyoning bug, and provide your thoughts on making it as strong and successful as this site has been for bushwalkers.

---

Imagine a community of canyoners, a place where skills, experience, knowledge and advice are shared freely. Somewhere accessible that introduces new people to our passion, ensuring they have the tools to do it safely, while also meeting the desires of more experienced people to discuss advanced techniques and equipment. And imagine it was a community capable of discussing important issues, debating points of difference, while keeping it respectful, polite, and friendly.

For several years I’ve contemplated what this might look like. There have been plenty of examples to look at, some of which seem to work well, while others fall flat. In many cases, my experience has been that they are not helpful, respectful, or effective.

In Australia, a few things have been tried. The old OzCanyons yahoo group was popular for many years, and while it was a useful resource, it had fundamental flaws. Not only did it bombarded your inbox with every post, but useful knowledge was lost in the sands of time, meaning the same arguments occurred time and again.

In more recent years, many people shifted to Facebook. Again, this came with problems, not least of which is the fact that it excludes anyone who doesn’t want to hand their personal information over to a company which has proven itself pretty untrustworthy. It also suffers from the standard weaknesses of social media: discussions are often heated and impulsive; people post without thinking; and important discussions quickly disappear, forcing people to ask the same questions over and over again.

The end result is our community has been left fragmented, disjointed, and ineffective.

I think the United States offers some interesting thoughts on how things could be improved. Not only are there some quite substantial canyoning (or canyoneering) forums providing examples of what can be achieved, but they’ve also led to the formation of a canyoneering association capable of advocating for the interests of recreational canyoners. Personally, I have found Canyon Collective particularly useful. Bogley, while very different in style, culture and approach, achieves similar things.

So what should an online canyoning community look like?
- It should be accessible, easy to find, and open to everyone;
- It should improve the skills and knowledge of canyoners, making our activities safer and more enjoyable;
- It should allow knowledge to build up over time, making it easy to access and find by new canyoners;
- People should be able to dip in when they have time and energy, and pull back when they don’t, without being bombarded with messages or missing out on important issues;
- It should be a place where we can discuss important issues and debate differences, but do so in a respectful manner;
- It should lead to a stronger canyoning community which has greater ability to advocate for our passion and the places we love;
- It should be positive and respectful, a place where people think before they speak, where they are considerate of others, and where they seek to build each other up; and
- It should have the long-term goal of leading to the creation of a diverse, democratic, and representative canyoning association.

Rather than just throw this idea out there, have some people say “I agree”, then have nothing happen, I decided to spend some time creating a rough starting point. That way you can see first-hand what I have in mind. From that simple starting block, if it’s useful, people who care about the project can take it over, using their skills to grow it into something more.

So here’s the very rough starting point: https://canyoning.org.au/forum/.

Given my central goal was the creation of an accessible, respectful community, there are some key features designed to help make that happen:
- Most of the forum content is accessible to guests, so people can access important information without needing to know of its existence or being a member;
- Posting can only be done by people who have registered and understand that civility and thoughtfulness are compulsory;
- Real names are used in people’s profiles, making it harder to hide behind online anonymity to say things you would never consider in real life;
- Moderation ensures breaches of that culture are addressed, ensuring it is a safe, enjoyable place for all users; and
- It be run by a diverse group of canyoners, ensuring that it is truly representative.

I’m hopeful that this forum — or something else that provides this same outcome — will result in finally creating a more unified community of passionate Australian canyoners. By creating opportunities to share skills and experience, we can work together to build up our entire community.

I’m also hoping it might lead to the formation of a canyoning association which can advocate on issues important to canyoners. I’d love it if in a year or two I could hand this forum over entirely to the control of an elected association of Australian canyoners who could take it forward.

In the short term, can I ask a few things of you:
- Take a minute to have a look at the forum and provide feedback on how it might be improved;
- Share your own content, whether nice photos, trip reports, track notes, or useful advice;
Start asking questions, because if you’ve got one you can be sure it’s shared by many others;
- Let other canyoners know about the existence of a new forum; and
- If you share my passion for this concept, I’d love any offers to assist with moderation, design, or the technical side of things.

Hopefully this can be a starting point to help grow the community of Australian canyoners.

T2

[LachlanB]

I figured I'd provide an update here, given I started this topic nearly six years ago

Just wandered past and saw your link to your new canyoning forum. I hope it works out and is successful!
As someone who does far more caving than canyoning, I'm not your main audience. But I still found lots of interesting stuff to read.

[FatCanyoner]

Thanks for checking it out Lachlan and I'm glad you found it interesting. Fingers crossed we can get enough interesting discussion and useful content up in the coming months to make it really useful by the time the next canyoning season kicks off.

[trekker76]

Can I offer a suggestion being a link or blurb on your site explaining what canyoning is. Might encourage newcomers to try it out. I didn't realise there was a niche sport like this until I read this thread.

[FatCanyoner]

Can I offer a suggestion being a link or blurb on your site explaining what canyoning is. Might encourage newcomers to try it out. I didn't realise there was a niche sport like this until I read this thread.

Thanks for that feedback. Will have a think about it. To be honest, the forum is more about connecting people who already canyon rather than just trying to get more people into it. We already have a worrying number of rescues each year caused by people getting some info on the internet and not having the skills to do it safely. My view is people should try it with a club or group of experienced people until they have the skills to get out on their own.