Light weight cooking system

[Franco]

A comment from Brett (about loving his food...) prompted this .
I like my food too but in the bush easy does it for me. So I use what they call "boil in the bag" way of cooking.
The problem with that is that I have had not much luck with bags and don't really like having to be careful on how I am holding them when I eat
(even with the home made "cozy" )
So I have been experimenting with various containers ending up a few months ago with a Decor 800ml bowl with snap lock lid that did the job.
Recently I purchased a new shorter cone for a 1.3L pot so with that I bought the Caldera Cone Caddy.
Following some comments at BPL, I decided to finally test that as a "re-hydrating" container and eating bowl.
It works (no plastic taste and stiff enough) so that is my new bowl and cup .The bottom holds 4 cups and the top 2, so just right (with some room to spare) for me. You can put boiling water in it . BTW as a tip (we all do but...) you do not need to bring water to a boil for tea and coffee (if you are not sterilising your water)
So new total weight of my cooking set up is 250g (no fuel) . I always have a Chux inside the cone . That is my kitchen cloth but also fills the gaps.
The alcohol container is for 8oz (237 ml) , that is good enough for 4 days for me (3 season)
The last two walks I did (11 full days in total ) I used just under 500 ml (about 17oz)
Because that 10-20 stove burns better with more fuel than I need per burn, I will be making a cup for it so that it can be used to snuff the flame and retrieve the remaining metho. Add about 10g for that.
Franco
BTW, the one I use is the TiTri version. Titanium is much stronger and more flexible than the aluminium version. You can burn wood inside that if you need to.
Several through hikers have done the all of the PCT and Appalachian trails with this type of set up (months of continuous use) , many with exactly the same set up, so it isn't new and it works more than for just a few burns.
And yes, they also get "weather".

[Ent]

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[Franco]

The Caddy and the new cone (not the one in the pic) are from Anti Gravity Gear, so we are almost there.
My idea is to go lite but has to work.
Lots of metho set ups don't work in "bad "weather" or are not predictable enough (too much variation in wind or cold conditions)
Many swear by those bags, I swear at them.
I found that after a few uses you need to replace them and that is for the ones that did not spring a leak the first time. You have to avoid hard food (like pasta) that can poke a hole in transit. (I used to have a bag inside another one)
Plus I prefer to clean my food container as soon as I finish (I only boil water in the pot) rather than having a pile of dirty plastic bags. OK inside a bigger Alosack (they keep the smell in) but not ideal for me.

"by a country kilometre"
That is the problem with metrics. You give an inch and they take 30.5 cm.
Franco

[Son of a Beach]

I've yet to get into this style of cooking much yet, so please forgive my ignorance ...

I was under the impression from some people that the reason for doing the just-add-water meals in the plastic bags was that you could pour water into the bag that the food was carried in, eat out of the bag, then put the bag in your rubbish container, and have no washing up (apart from your spoon/fork/spork).

If this is the case, then using a separate hard container would defeat this purpose, as you'd have to wash it up anyway.

So I'm guessing there's some other reason for this that I'm unaware of (otherwise, why not just use the billy that you boiled the water in). I'd be curious to know what other reasons people have for using an extra container (plastic bag or plastic pot/bowl) for eating, rather than just using the billy (which is what I always use).

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[Son of a Beach]

Thanks Brett, that makes sense. I'll stick to my eating out of the billy, but I can see why others may not want to going by the reasons in your reply.

90% of my walks have involved cooking for other people, and I've never had a problem with dishing out to several people who all bring their own plate/bowl (it can get a little tricky when cooking a meal consisting of two different things in two different pots, but it always works out in the end). So I'm not sure about this one.

In the past I've always used either the lid of the cook set (Trangia) for chopping. Your point on this is something I can relate to well, so I'll have to make sure my new pots come with good flat lids when I get them soon (I'm getting new pots for solo/self-catering walks for which the large Trangia is too heavy). So I have no need to bring an extra plate/bowl on this account, but I can see the sense in it for others.

I can relate to the quick-cooling food problem. It's just something I put up with, and don't consider it enough of a problem to carry an extra plate/bowl for. For hot drinks it's actually great... my tea cools down to a drinkable temperature in a much more agreeable time.

[whynotwalk]

My query is sort of related. I just saved about 1kg in cooking system weight by changing from a big Trangia to a Snow Peak gas cooker and 1400ml-sized titanium billy/fry pan. All up this is just over 400g. I got the gas set-up for ease of going to NZ ... but realised the weight savings are substantial too.

The down-side - and hence my question - is that the system is prone to wind and stability issues. I'm going to rig up an aluminium foil wind-shield, but does anyone have some better ideas for that, and for stability issues?

cheers

Peter

[Ent]

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[Franco]

Son of a Beach
You do have a point there...
But there is more to it.
I make my own food but occasionally I buy that stuff in the foil packets. When I do that then the container would be almost useless except for storing my system and as a cup for a hot drink.
(some do re-pack the freeze dried meals inside lighter plastic pouches)
Some of my meals are complete but vacuumed inside the smallest bag possible.
Others are separate ingredients that I assemble just before I start "cooking" . So 2 minute noodles, cous cous and dried rice, pork/chicken/beef (in vacuumed individual pouches) sometimes mince meat (usually spiced) enough for two or three meals in one pouch and I use whatever I want per meal.
Then I have a veggie bag. Dried beans,peas,carrots. To most meals I add olive oil and garlic, parmesan cheese to others.
I use a lot of milk powder (full cream type) I also have some herbs and the occasional sauce pouch.
Typically I will have at least one meal with tune in foil . That comes with sauce but I add some bits to it . (with ramen or cous cous)
To Cous cous I add raisins and nuts, but only if I feel like it.

Not cooking inside the pot it means you always have a clean pot to boil water for tea and coffee without the trail taste (from the previous meal).
Note that it takes less fuel for two small boils than a large one (2x 400ml than 1x 800ml..)

As for stability and windproofing your gas canister, that is why I modified a remote canister stove to use with the cone.
In the pic the new large solo portion from Mountain House and a smaller (by about 1/3rd) then average home made meal*. That is the last of that batch. (hence the smaller portion)
Franco
Saffron rice with spiced pork. That has peas and carrots and the rice is cooked with chicken stock. It was made about 8 months ago I had one other bag two days ago to test the Caddy and it was just fine.


I am not stating or implying that this is the way to do it. But it works for me at the moment.
One guy I met only eats bars , never cooks. One of the guys I hiked with has mostly fresh food , so some are much lighter again others are a lot heavier, but they all walk the walk...
I forgot , I always have some hard boil eggs, VitaWheet and Parma ham, but that is lunch.

[Son of a Beach]

My query is sort of related. I just saved about 1kg in cooking system weight by changing from a big Trangia to a Snow Peak gas cooker and 1400ml-sized titanium billy/fry pan. All up this is just over 400g. I got the gas set-up for ease of going to NZ ... but realised the weight savings are substantial too.

The down-side - and hence my question - is that the system is prone to wind and stability issues. I'm going to rig up an aluminium foil wind-shield, but does anyone have some better ideas for that, and for stability issues?

cheers

Peter

I got a few replies to a similar windshield question in this topic.

[whynotwalk]

Thanks Nik - next time I'll check the search engine first

cheers

Peter

[Jellybean]

Recently I purchased a new shorter cone for a 1.3L pot so with that I bought the Caldera Cone Caddy.

Hi Franco,

I'm currently looking at lightweight cooking systems (amongst other things!? ) and the Caldera Cone caught my eye. It seems like you have the UL version as well as the bigger original version. How do they compare in terms of performance (I'm guessing the original version performs better - because of the way it encloses the cooking pot - but is heavier?) and, overall, which do you prefer and why?

Thanks!

Cheers,

JB

[Franco]

Hi Jellybean
The one on this thread is the 550 kit from TiGoat. The compact size cone is from AntiGravity Gear and for a 1.3L pot.
I only purchased the latter for an experiment, that is a gas conversion for a bigger pot if I ever need to melt snow.
On side by side tests, using the 550 Ti pot and the 1.3L alluminium version, the 550 boiled sooner and/or kept the boil for longer with the same ammount of fuel. So yes the full cone is more efficient . I would think that it would be even more so in the wind. The 550 cone does very well in exposed areas unlike all my previous set ups.
However even the short version is more stable and with moderate wind in my backyard did better than with the standard cylindrical type windscreens
I prefer the Ti version anyway because it does not kink and bend like the alluminium version. You can also burn wood inside that.
Franco


Have a look at this new page at Trail Designs
http://traildesigns.com/comparison.html

[Jellybean]

Hi Franco,

Thanks for your info and link, much appreciated. I'm looking for one for a 550 pot and was looking at the Anti-Gravity Gear website.

Trail Designs Caldera Cone System - http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddeta ... ALD&cat=40

Trail Designs Caldera UL Compact Stove System http://www.antigravitygear.com/proddeta ... ULC&cat=40

The full cone certainly seems to be an efficient system and I like the fact that it seems built to handle exposed areas (as well as it's lightness). Great too that it can use different types of fuel (although I guess metho would be the go most of the time - at least for me).

Thanks again!

Cheers,
JB

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[Jellybean]

As always, always looking at different or better systems. Noticed Franco you use a gas burner but this does not appear to be part the standard product line or have I missed something. Also curious on the wood burning option for the non national park walks. The idea of endless hot water appeals to me for seemingly illogical reasons. Also they do not appear to sell a pot with the system.

Cheers Brett

Hey Brett,

The gas conversion is a Franco improvisation!

These guys - http://www.titaniumgoat.com/TiTri.html - offer a complete set, including pot, however they seem to include some solid fuel in the set (unless I'm mistaken??) - I'm not sure if it could be shipped internationally with the fuel included (if that's what it is)? I'm going to buy some other gear through Ultralight Outdoor Gear UK and will buy a 550 (for solo walks) through them when they re-stock (in about 2 weeks). I'll probably buy the Caldera Cone (and a cozy) through AntiGravity Gear.

Cheers,

JB

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[Franco]

Metho is what I use. The wood burning option is there if I needed. If that is of interest to you then check out the Inferno version of the Caldera Cone. Same system with an inverted cone inside the main one. Burns more efficiently. About 30g or so more.
Yes, the gas bit was my idea but I think that Trail Design are working on that too.
The solid fuel offered by TiGoad is Esbit and yes it is shipped with the kit. Some use that in preference to metho.
Unlike Bret I like to fiddle and adapt. This is the Jetboil pot in the CC. Does not work any better but it is an almost 1L pot that fits in the same cone.
Silicone egg rings are holding it up at the correct distance . Come to think of it I have not tried the gas conversion with this pot...
Franco

[photohiker]

If you like the look of them cones, and might be able to use them in non-WHA areas, check out Hendrik's Blog

He's been comparing various wood and other fuel burning stoves - most of the tests are at the end of 2009, but you'll find plenty of interesting stuff as you page back that far. The guy is prolific, and is always testing and writing about interesting gear and the people who manufacture it.

[Jellybean]

These guys - http://www.titaniumgoat.com/TiTri.html - offer a complete set, including pot, however they seem to include some solid fuel in the set (unless I'm mistaken??) - I'm not sure if it could be shipped internationally with the fuel included (if that's what it is)?

I had an email back from these guys (Ti Goat) overnight - as Franco confirmed the set is shipped with some solid fuel (Esbit) but they said they haven't had any issues shipping them with this included so far.

Agree Brett, it's a whole lot less hassle to buy the complete set in one place than bits from several places.

Cheers,

JB

[Jellybean]

Metho is what I use. The wood burning option is there if I needed. If that is of interest to you then check out the Inferno version of the Caldera Cone. Same system with an inverted cone inside the main one. Burns more efficiently. About 30g or so more.

Thanks Franco!

See the link below for a You Tube clip of the Inferno version of the Caldera Cone in action. Impressive!

http://hikinginfinland.blogspot.com/200 ... no-in.html

From the Hiking in Finland blog that Michael mentioned - thanks Michael! Hendrik is certainly a prolific gear tester and writer! I had a look at his site late last year (he had a review of the Scarp 1). I can't believe how much he has written since!

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[Franco]

Hi Brett
That is exactly how I became a gear tragic, working in the street where all the major outdoor shops are located here in Melbourne for over two decades...
I made my fan powered stove, using a basic J Falk design (as I discovered later on...) and the double wall Bushbuddy kind.
Both worked well using a 9v transistor battery and a tiny fan from a computer video display card.
But because we cannot use them in many parks and simply because the Caldera Cone works for me anyway, I don't bother with that.
The Caldera Cone Inferno since it is marginally heavier than the one I use is still a good option.
http://www.trailgear.org/
Mind you having too many choices is not that good sometimes. I think that one day I went into a deep trance trying to chose what jam to buy at the local supermarket and spent the afternoon on that spot.
Franco

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[corvus]

Having seen a "Bluett" cylinder go off a WFV I for one wont be chancing undue heat round one of my screw in gas cannisters life is too short and I dont have that many years left
corvus

[photohiker]

Having seen a "Bluett" cylinder go off a WFV

Sorry, please translate. My Tasmanian language skills are still pretty rough

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[Orion]

Does anyone know if the Kovea screw on type have a pressure release fail-safe, especially if a stove is screwed on?

Yeah, sort of. The bottoms are concave so that they have room to invert if the pressure gets high enough. Of course after that the only thing left if for the seams to blow out. I imagine you could end up with a nice little fireball in the worst case. It could happen. I've seen an inverted blown out canister along with the twisted wreckage of the stove on display in a shop. I don't know if it happened accidently or they did it as a demonstration. But I've personally only seen petrol stoves blow up outside, at least so far.

I think the take home lesson is that idiots should eat their food cold.

[Tony]

Does anyone know if the Kovea screw on type have a pressure release fail-safe, especially if a stove is screwed on? Cheers Brett

Roger Caffin has done a lot of research and testing on this topic and has put his results on his Bushwalking.org/FAQ site.

http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_S ... ch.htm#Hot

Tony