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TIP: The online Bushwalk Inventory System can help bushwalkers with a variety of bushwalk planning tasks, including: Manage which items they take bushwalking so that they do not forget anything they might need, plan meals for their walks, and automatically compile food/fuel shopping lists (lists of consumables) required to make and cook the meals for each walk. It is particularly useful for planning for groups who share food or other items, but is also useful for individual walkers.What info on products?
Sun 07 Feb, 2010 7:00 pm
What sort of info do you all think manufacturers should put on their outdoors products?
I'll start with one- how the temperature rating of their particular sleeping bags was set, including any scientific conventions followed.
I'll start with one- how the temperature rating of their particular sleeping bags was set, including any scientific conventions followed.
Re: What info on products?
Sun 07 Feb, 2010 8:18 pm
Drifting,
anything manufacturer's put on their products I ignore, common sense I would think.
Don't care about reputations or statistics only performance of individual products matters.
The only exception is food, and I hope(and pray) they are honest about ingredients.
Cheers,sbs
anything manufacturer's put on their products I ignore, common sense I would think.
Don't care about reputations or statistics only performance of individual products matters.
The only exception is food, and I hope(and pray) they are honest about ingredients.
Cheers,sbs
Re: What info on products?
Sun 07 Feb, 2010 9:18 pm
What I really don't like when checking for tents online is, if there is no proper floor plan and the only measurement given is xxx square meter. Another important information is the material used.
Apart from that I agree with sbs.
Apart from that I agree with sbs.
Re: What info on products?
Sun 07 Feb, 2010 9:29 pm
Materials, care instructions and yeah I Like to see "how the temperature rating of their particular sleeping bags was set, including any scientific conventions followed" just so when time comes to buy a new one I will have a point of reference.
Re: What info on products?
Sun 07 Feb, 2010 10:54 pm
Actually- the narrowest width of a tent would be handy- there seems to be a pretty wide range of what manufacturers consider to be 3 person.
Re: What info on products?
Tue 09 Feb, 2010 3:16 pm
Content removed by poster
Last edited by Ent on Sat 27 Nov, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What info on products?
Tue 09 Feb, 2010 7:27 pm
How many stakes are REALLY needed to pitch the tent properly, or in other words how many more you have to buy....
Re: What info on products?
Tue 09 Feb, 2010 8:27 pm
Brett
That TT "coffin" (it's a box) and the "cutaway dimensions" page was the result of comments of this type, IE customer frustration in not being able to figure out the real usable size of the shelters.
Henry did that with a particular shelter and following the positive comments he then slowly updated all the other product pages.
http://www.tarptent.com/moment_2.html
However it is clear to me that a lot of people do not understand nor "visualise" those drawings either and prefer to hear the "I am 6'2" and have plenty of space in there, followed by I am 5'10" and my head touches the top...)
When it comes to warmth, snow loading and wind resistance , it's (I think...) a lot more difficult and expensive.
For example if you have a fully zipped up shelter , that could initially be warm but with condensation build up you would pay dearly later on .
So do you measure the temperature gain by your thermometer one hour into the test or use something like RealFeel in the middle of the night? *
Snow loading would have to include the moisture content. Wet snow is a lot heavier than powder snow. How much sag do you allow ?
Wind resistance. From how many directions ? Using what pegs? On what ground? How much flex/bend is allowed?
All of the above would be almost meaningless without a "standard". Once you have that , then people will complain because it does not apply to them anyway. (see the EN 13537 sleeping bag standard debates)
Franco
*Real Feel
http://www.accuweather.com/help.asp
That TT "coffin" (it's a box) and the "cutaway dimensions" page was the result of comments of this type, IE customer frustration in not being able to figure out the real usable size of the shelters.
Henry did that with a particular shelter and following the positive comments he then slowly updated all the other product pages.
http://www.tarptent.com/moment_2.html
However it is clear to me that a lot of people do not understand nor "visualise" those drawings either and prefer to hear the "I am 6'2" and have plenty of space in there, followed by I am 5'10" and my head touches the top...)
When it comes to warmth, snow loading and wind resistance , it's (I think...) a lot more difficult and expensive.
For example if you have a fully zipped up shelter , that could initially be warm but with condensation build up you would pay dearly later on .
So do you measure the temperature gain by your thermometer one hour into the test or use something like RealFeel in the middle of the night? *
Snow loading would have to include the moisture content. Wet snow is a lot heavier than powder snow. How much sag do you allow ?
Wind resistance. From how many directions ? Using what pegs? On what ground? How much flex/bend is allowed?
All of the above would be almost meaningless without a "standard". Once you have that , then people will complain because it does not apply to them anyway. (see the EN 13537 sleeping bag standard debates)
Franco
*Real Feel
http://www.accuweather.com/help.asp
Re: What info on products?
Wed 10 Feb, 2010 10:33 am
Content removed by poster
Last edited by Ent on Sat 27 Nov, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What info on products?
Wed 10 Feb, 2010 4:08 pm
Brett
The "misting" inside Traptents and other shelter using that type of silnylon is mostly from dislodged condensation but can (very rarely) be from penetration (trust me on this one). However it almost never is enough to compromise a sleeping bag .
But lets be realistic, in some situations no tent will stand up to the weather. (nether do houses...)
The 1.5 tent bit can be and often is misleading . Tarptent use that when you can have two standard mats side by side. (see my Contrail...)
Seam sealing is something that will always polarise people. Non PU coated silnylon cannot be taped at the factory. To have each tent set up ,seam sealed and then dispatched after a day or two of drying time is just not realistic.
Hilleberg have four layers of fabric on each seam and that in most cases is enough. They also use a "cold" stitching method that makes smaller holes than a hot needle. However you pay for that too. Still there are people reporting having had to seam seal one of those too.
BTW, one of the guys that had a go at me for my seam sealing comments (at WB) pointed out an emerging cottage manufacturer that did seam seal his tarps. He doesn't anymore... (IE he now sells more than one a week...)
Keep in mind that some need also to seam seal tents that are factory taped. (tapes coming undone or not offering adeguate coverage)
This year Golite has a new type of sil fabric that is PU coated on the underside, therefore it s taped.
The disadvantage of that is that if you store it (by accident) still a bit damp , mold will take hold. PU deteriorates with time anyway (faster than UV damage on the silnylon) and re-coating is not an easy and/or practical task for most
Franco
The "misting" inside Traptents and other shelter using that type of silnylon is mostly from dislodged condensation but can (very rarely) be from penetration (trust me on this one). However it almost never is enough to compromise a sleeping bag .
But lets be realistic, in some situations no tent will stand up to the weather. (nether do houses...)
The 1.5 tent bit can be and often is misleading . Tarptent use that when you can have two standard mats side by side. (see my Contrail...)
Seam sealing is something that will always polarise people. Non PU coated silnylon cannot be taped at the factory. To have each tent set up ,seam sealed and then dispatched after a day or two of drying time is just not realistic.
Hilleberg have four layers of fabric on each seam and that in most cases is enough. They also use a "cold" stitching method that makes smaller holes than a hot needle. However you pay for that too. Still there are people reporting having had to seam seal one of those too.
BTW, one of the guys that had a go at me for my seam sealing comments (at WB) pointed out an emerging cottage manufacturer that did seam seal his tarps. He doesn't anymore... (IE he now sells more than one a week...)
Keep in mind that some need also to seam seal tents that are factory taped. (tapes coming undone or not offering adeguate coverage)
This year Golite has a new type of sil fabric that is PU coated on the underside, therefore it s taped.
The disadvantage of that is that if you store it (by accident) still a bit damp , mold will take hold. PU deteriorates with time anyway (faster than UV damage on the silnylon) and re-coating is not an easy and/or practical task for most
Franco
Last edited by Franco on Wed 10 Feb, 2010 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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