Lightweight ?

[Lindsay]

I was rather dismayed a couple of days ago to find my pack for an overnight walk (Mt Solitary traverse) weighed 16kg! Fair enough 4kg was water, but even so I could not think of anything I could reasonably leave behind. Seems I have a long way to go to get this lightweight stuff sorted out. Investment in lighter (more expensive) gear seems to be the way ahead, along with more intensive research on this forum.

[Son of a Beach]

For me, the most difficult aspect of trying to lighten my pack weight has been that in order to make any significant difference, I have to replace items that I already own that still have years of good use left in them. I generally buy good quality stuff in order to reduce the risk of failure in the wilderness, and that means that it lasts a long time. This in turn means that newer and lighter stuff has been available for years before I get a failure serious enough to justify replacing the item.

Having said that, 12kg, including food, is not bad. How much did the food weigh?

[alliecat]

Hi Lindsay,

Yes, if you're already fully equipped it can be a cost and a hassle to try and reduce the weight you're carrying. But it can be spread out over time to reduce the pain. Also, if you're gear is in good condition you can often recoup some of the costs of replacements by selling the old gear on. You'll also find that some lightweight gear is actually cheaper than the heavier options, so when it comes time to replace something that has worn out, you can spend less than expected and reduce weight all in one go.

If you like, you could post a gear list here and we'll try to make some suggestions about where you might to be able to save some weight without spending too much money. No guarantees, but we can try.

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Ent]

Hi

UL aside, light weight is something I have looked long and hard for even longer than I have been on this forum and likewise have found no magic bullet. Probably the last three bastions of reduction for me outside the obvious path of leaving stuff out is the sleeping mat, rain gear and the pack itself. The Neoair is 550 grams versus 995 grams for the Prolite 4 in the same large size so is the last major item inside the pack that I can reduce weight without losing the other aspects I treasure. Also its small pack size should help in reducing the number of litres thus adding to weight saving by getting a smaller pack.

The trouble with packs and rain gear is it easy to get much lighter but the cost is fragility. Yes I fully accept for the track walkers most gear is ok but that is not always the Tassie way. I have a Montane rain jacket that I took out the first time and in true Tassie fickled weather did not use despite high likelihood of rain so no nearer to figuring out if it will work for me. It is the fraction of size and weight of my traditional jacket. The Montane walking pants are less than half the weight of say the Macpac ones and to-date have proven equally robust despite feeling much lighter in material so maybe my concern is excessive. The Montane ones can shed a bit of rain due to a DWR coating so far superior to the Macpac ones but are not officially waterproof so I might be tempted by Montane's waterproof version to replace the PP ones but the sizing is as usual too short in leg length but then so again are the Macpac ones As far as comfort goes I will not be reverting back.

My big issue is more than a few times I have taken a tumble and the Gore-tex rain coat and pants along with the OP pack and have experienced no damaged and I am just not so sure if the other stuff made out of thinner materials would fare as well. Packs with mesh pockets are simply an invitation to self destruct in normal Tassie bush yet time and time again they appear in gear lists of people chasing the grams. Brief wanders in Europe suggest to me Tassie bush and style of walking is much harder on gear than what the Europeans experience.

Probably with a Neoair and Montane wet weather gear around two kilograms could be saved along with enough litres to seriously look at reducing pack size which would save around another half kilogram without changing from a canvas type pack that have proven tough enough to handle off track walking. This is a lot of money for two an half kilogram reduction given all the other gear has been selected for longevity and toughness so a long way from failure.

In the group I stroll with there is a strong gear freak interest and a trend to lighter and smaller packing gear. I also note that weight reduction is a gradual process rather than an extreme sport. Personally I have given up worrying too much and instead are working on getting out more so the weight reduction is on me and getting fitter means pack weight is not such an issue. I think we tend to get overly concerned over weight reduction and drawn into a race to buy new stuff to achieve some magical target when the existing stuff is perfectly ok. If you can not haul the weight then by all means chase the grams rather than staying home but otherwise enjoy the reliability of the gear that has proven itself and when it finally fails look at more modern alternatives, which next week will be lighter and stronger than the week before if carefully selected. Interesting my gear choice is now resulting is less failures but still something manages to break, tear or self destruct and that annoys me more than weight.

Cheers Brett

[alliecat]

I also note that weight reduction is a gradual process rather than an extreme sport

QFT (Quoted For Truth)!

I just wanted to highlight this bit in case it gets missed in Brett's, umm, slightly verbose prose style

There's no need to jump straight to the lightest gear if you already have stuff that works. Of course if you have an unlimited budget, go for it! But seriously, it's about finding the lightest gear that works for you and this is almost always a gradual process, as every person has their own individual needs.

Brett, hopefully you'll find the Montane WP jacket surprisingly tough. I have a Montane Atomic and it feels fragile, but I've tumbled and slipped down rocks in it, fully expecting to find the jacket wrecked afterwards and to my great and pleasant surprise, it was none the worse for wear! Of course, little me falling down has a lot less kinetic energy than you falling down...

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Ent]

Of course, little me falling down has a lot less kinetic energy than you falling down...
Cheers,
Alliecat

It all depends on what you land on (or whom you land on)

Though seriously the traditional Gore-tex jacket has proven to be as tough as nails while some of the alternatives have not faired as well. I just hope I have not chosen poorly as there is a significant saving in size, let alone weight that makes it a good choice. Time will tell and if it works I might go looking for the Montane waterproof pants as Montane in clothing appear to be leading the market with sensible strength at reduced weight, just not cheap.

Not too long reply?

Cheers Brett

(minor admin edit to this post)

[Lindsay]

Thanks for the feedback team. Food weight was about 1.2kg, consisting of muesli bars, chocolate, trail mix and beef jerky. Nothing that needed cooking, cence no cooking gear carried this time.

Gear breakdown (checked after I got back):
tent 2.2kg
pack 2kg
sleeping bag 1.1kg
mattress 750g
1st aid kit 440g
emergency kit 330g
2 torches total 175g
multitool 240g
spare clothing/fleece 1.65kg
waterproofs/gaiters 800g
thongs 180g
towel/toothbrush etc. 320g
camera 180g
wallet, keys phone etc 300g
food 1.2kg
water 4kg

Just looking at this I can see some areas where savings could be made, but any suggestions are welcome.

[alliecat]

Hi Lindsay,

Nothing in your list looks to be ridiculously heavy, so it seems you're suffering "death by a thousand cuts" - if everything you had was just a bit lighter, the total weight saving would be significant.

Some thoughts though.

Spare clothes and fleece at 1.65 kg seems a bit high to me. Do you wear the fleece when walking or only around camp? If it's mostly around camp you'd get more warmth-for-weight from a down or synthetic puffy jacket.

Multitool at 240g - I know, I used to carry my SAK all the time too. But I rarely used it. Now I carry a leatherman micra that weighs about 50g and does everything I need.

1st aid and emergency kits. With both kits, ask yourself "do I know what this thing is and how to use it" for each item in the kit. If the answer is "no", there's probably not much point carrying it! And your spare clothes can double as bandages, so do you really need all those bandages... Even if you can only save 100-200g here, it'll all add up in the end.

For a towel, I use chux kitchen wipes. Almost weightless and they do the job. Or I just use the bandanna that I carry in my pocket anyway.

After that, we start to get into expensive stuff like tent, pack, sleeping bag, and mat. Happy to make suggestions there too if you'd like!

Hope that helps a little bit. One approach that some people find useful is to stare at each little thing in their kit and ask themselves "do I really, really need to carry this?" and "what's the worst that could happen if I didn't have it?"

Cheers,
Alliecat

[samh]

As alliecat already mentioned I would first look at the clothing. Also I wonder why you bring two torches. I also figured that my wallet is often very heavy, so I made a little bag (you could use a zip-lock bag)and only bring what's necessary.

sam

[Franco]

The following is a kind of an expensive way of doing it but it might inspire you.
Tent
For three season and allowing for some out of season snow (say 10-15 cm)
Tarptent Moment /Six Moon Design Lunar Solo , both under 1 Kg.
If you use trekking poles and are under 180cm something, the Aarn Pacer 1 will do all year around .

Sleeping bag.
The Western Mountaineering Ultralite can cover from -10 (with some clothing) to 20c (opened up quilt mode). About 750g

Pack
A ULA Ciurcuit at 1Kg will hold 15-16 kg but works best at 10-13 Kg. At this point you have lost about 3 kg anyway...
Or the Osprey Exos 58 at 1.1 kg.
Mat
The Neo Air of course. Under 400g

That emergency/first aid kit at almost 800g seems hefty indeed.
Mine including the personal hygiene stuff( tooth brush,baking soda,dental floss,hair brush with mirror) is about 300g.
I also use Chux (the thick ones) One for the tent, one for me and one for washing up.


I have not taken my biffo Leatherman since I lost it (...) now I use a Micra S or just a small Opinel knife.

So having only spent a few thousand dollars of your money , I saved you about 4kg.
Franco

[Son of a Beach]

You can also get a good 4 season tent under 1.5kg (one person).

[Tony]

Hi Lindsay,

There have been some good suggestions so far and I will add my 2CW.

Regardless of some comments, some of the lightweight gear is tougher than some think, sure I have some minor failures but no more than when I used traditional gear. (I actually had a minor part of my pack come apart on the weekend, this will easily be fixed and can easily happen to all packs)

I have been going lightweight for more than five years and I am still working on ways to reduce my gear weight.

Some tips.

You have a good start by knowing the weight of your gear.

Ask your self do you use that piece of gear and do you really need it or can you use a lighter version.

Lightweight gear is not necessarily expensive. ( I did a survey of the cost of LW vs traditional gear which I posted the results on this forum but I am unable to find it on this site any more)

Check these links out on this thread viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2588 I find Backpacking light http://www.backpackinglight.com one of the best, I just purchased a BPL life membership.

This is a link to my STD three season gear list viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1368

My warning covers a lot

WARNING:

Please be very careful when you start lightweight bushwalking.

The lightweight approach to lightweight bushwalking equipment described below is intended for a limited scope of environmental conditions and should not necessarily be relied upon in extremes of temperature or weather. Even during the heat of summer, the Australian Alps and South West Tasmania can offer snow and sub-freezing temperatures. You should be confident that you can use your equipment to deal with these conditions.

Therefore: You should not take a lightweight kit into high-mountain areas like the Australian Alps, or South West Tasmania without the knowledge and experience to use it. Not having the appropriate equipment, or unfamiliarity with lightweight backpacking techniques, could result in serious discomfort, injury, or death.

As with any serious outdoor pursuits, take your time learning and gaining experience: lighten your kit a bit at a time with judicious testing on short outings and in your backyard. Take backup equipment until you have confidence that your ultralight equipment will keep you warm and safe.

Tony

[Lindsay]

Lots of food for thought here. Probably a while before I can do much about the big ticket stuff like tent, pack and mattress but the other stuff I can start working on now. Thanks to all for the information.
And Sam, I had two torches this trip because I discovered at the last minute I had no spare AAA batteries and it was easier just to throw in my AA maglite as well instead of diverting to the shops. Poor planning I know...

[melinda]

Hi Lindsay,
A few suggestions for sleeping bags.
You can usually find Western Mountaineering bags on Ebay.
People I know who have purchased bags this way have never had any problems. I guess you would have to be a bit cautious.
My other suggestion would be to know what you want and then follow the various overseas sites, pounce when they discount.
I brought a Marmot Women's Helium about 2 years ago for $250 (Australian) including postage. It was supposed to have a few defects in the material but
the only thing I can find wrong is 10cm of stitching was a bit messy.
It does cost a bit to get a good light weight kit together, but think of all the money you'll be saving on knee replacements in the future!
Melinda


I

[Macca81]

hair brush with mirror

who are you trying to impress out in the wilderness??

[Franco]

That brush at 50g is definitely a luxury that comes with me only on longer trips but I could leave at home..
The mirror is part of my safety/first aid.
Franco

[under10kg]

I found once I got my gear and food under 8 kg a 400gm frame less pack is fine and comfortable. This saves 1.5kg or more. Yes my pack does have mess sides but a rain cover seems to work well for protection for walks that are not too scrubby like WA. I can do a 6 day walk with about 10kg or so. The first few days the pack is a bit uncomfortable but then it is fine as the food weight drops. I have also carried up to 15k with such a pack and survived but wished for the front balance pockes and comfort of an aarn pack.

[kanangra]

For the BM's at this time of year 600g is ample for spare clothing. For Tassie or NZ at this time i would take about 1,000g.

For BM's a tarp/ groundsheet combo is sufficient for three season use. My 6x8 set up with pegs guys and groundsheet is 450g. Add 100g if I use 8x10.

Go lite packs are not dear. the Pinnacle can be had for $100 and weighs 710g in the Medium and carries up to 15kg no probs.

The WM Summerlite is sufficient for 3 season use in BM's and weighs about 550g. Or a thermo reactor liner/ long johns combo is about 260g. ( long johns included in spare clothes weight )

Or if the weather is fine leave the shelter behind and go with a liner/long johns/ bivvy combo for about 550g all up shelter and sleep system.

this gives 1260g for the big 3 compared to 5,300g on your list.

Throw in a Neo air small and you have 1500g for these 4 items compared to 6050g. the saving is 4.5kg and hey presto your packweight is under 10kg.

K.

[kanangra]

I just noticed that there is no stove or cooking gear on your list. whilst this is possible on short trips on longer trips you will have this weight to add which is all the more reason to make the savings elsewhere if you can.

K.

[Lindsay]

Thanks for the sleeping bag suggestion Melinda, I have not really thought of Ebay as the place for this sort of gear but maybe I am over-cautious. Worth a look anyway. Kanangra, my cooking gear at the moment consists of a K- Mart pan/bowl/cup set combined with a spork and an ancient ex- army hexamine stove, Weight about 500g. Good idea re. the bivvy rather than a tent. One more thing for the wish list!

[Son of a Beach]

I recently got my stove and cooking and eating kit down to 136g (plus gas canister). I got the Kovea Supalite, a titanim billy (for both cooking and eating) and titanium cutlery (all for birthday and Christmas prezzies). I was amazed at how little it all weighed for the entire kit. Especially when compared to my old kit (which I still use for group cooking).

I need to add a windshield, but it would be just a few grams of alfoil baking tray, cut and bent to shape.

[Jellybean]

For BM's a tarp/ groundsheet combo is sufficient for three season use. My 6x8 set up with pegs guys and groundsheet is 450g. Add 100g if I use 8x10.

Hi K,

I'm going to start experimenting with tarps, especially in NSW. Out of curiosity, what factors determine whether you take a 6 x 8 or an 8 x 10 tarp? Expected weather? Whether or not you're sharing the tarp with someone else? I've got 2 ID Siltarps - 5 x 8 and 8 x 10. Was thinking of using the 5 x 8 if the conditions are good and the 8 x 10 if not (both for solo use). I have a bivvy which is very breathable but not completely waterproof - needs to be used in combo with a tarp in wet conditions.

Thanks!

Cheers,

JB

[kanangra]

JB,

Sounds like yours are the same as mine. 5x8 is just big enough for 1 I find if the weather looks OK. If weather doubtful or there are two then the 8x10 is the way to go. I find the tarp perfectly adequate for 3 season use in the BM's. Although I was badly bitten by something in the middle of the night recently.

[Jellybean]

JB,

Sounds like yours are the same as mine. 5x8 is just big enough for 1 I find if the weather looks OK. If weather doubtful or there are two then the 8x10 is the way to go. I find the tarp perfectly adequate for 3 season use in the BM's. Although I was badly bitten by something in the middle of the night recently.

Thanks K. Yes, I remember reading that. Is one of the reasons I decided to add a bivvy! (I don't like the idea of sharing my bag with creepy crawlies). Had planned to use my bro's very old bivvy but discovered the nylon bottom is wetting out straight away (goretex top is still bomb proof), plus it was quite claustrophobic, so I bit the bullet and bought a Ti Goat Ptarmigan Bivvy with a full net hood (less claustrophobic) - has had great reviews on the 'net - very reasonably priced (compared to some bivvy's), very breathable (doesn't seem to have the condensation problems that some bivvies have) and light - only 170g with the full net hood, so my tarp options are:

5 x 8 tarp + 6 guys, tensioners, ti stakes + polycro ground sheet = 300g + bivvy 170g = 470g (a bit more if more significant stakes are required)

8 x 10 tarp + 6 guys, tensioners, ti stakes + polycro ground sheet = 480g + bivvy 170g = 650g (a bit more if more significant stakes are required)

[kanangra]

Gee that is a good weight for the bivvy. My lightest, no bug screen is about 260g! I think you have a couple of good systems going there that will be all you need for most uses in and around sydney for most times of the year.

K.

[Jellybean]

Gee that is a good weight for the bivvy. My lightest, no bug screen is about 260g! I think you have a couple of good systems going there that will be all you need for most uses in and around sydney for most times of the year.

K.

That's what I'm hoping!! The proof will be in the pudding!

[north-north-west]

I have not taken my biffo Leatherman since I lost it (...)

That's not the one I found up on MacAllister Saddle, is it?

[Franco]

Somehow I think that I lent it to a workmate and it was never returned. I have the Micra and the Juice so it took me a while to realise it was missing.
But I am a bit like that. Lost an 8x20 Leica bino (provably left that inside a hire car on the way back from a walk) but did not think of it till the next walk about 6-8 weeks later. (ouch)
Franco

[corvus]

In base weight calculations what is taken into consideration please.
Just came under 9kg with two lunches, heavy pack (3.2kg )no shelter or water .
corvus

[kanangra]

Base weight or dry weight is weight of pack loaded but before food and water. I do not include weight of gear worn in base weight.

Just packed for weekend trip to NZ. Base weight as defined above 5.6kg. But note as staying in huts with mattresses, no tent or mat. But this does include stove and billys for 2 but not fuel as will have to be picked up over there. cant wait.

K.