Seeking Wisdom

[cherish]

Hi

I have been bushwalking with my wife and 6yo daughter for about a year now. I am exploring to take the next step to overnighters. Now i have read many websites and the main theme is you get what you pay for. I am still saving but will like some advice on whether my idea will work.

I am thinking of going car camping with our hiking gear so that they can get use to using the equipment, sleeping in a tent but still have amenities closeby at the start. Also, since i am the fitter one I am thinking of carrying most of the gear when we start hiking overnight.

The gear I am looking to get are:

I-Explore tent (to fit all three of us)
OP Strezlecki 80L (which will be the pack I will be using to carry all the stuff) If the family not liking the hiking bit, I can still go ahead myself. Intend to work towards multiday hike such as OT, etc.
Camelbak Helena 20L (which my wife will carry, and it is also the daypack that she uses for our normal bushwalking)
OP Bushlite 700 x2 (for the adults)
OP Sac 2 (for my daughter) something she could also use for her school camps down the track.
Thermarest Prolite x3
Camelbak bladder 3L x2
Usual clothing (ie rainwear, warmwear, etc)
Maybe the rocket pocket (not sure it is suitable for us)
Food
Any other things, that are not coming to my mind right now.

Do you think I can fit all our stuff between my wife's daypack and the OP pack? Will it be too heavy for me if i could fit it in the pack?

Also, any ideas where we can start our camping to test out our gear? I am located at Burwood East, Vic. Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Eric

[jcr_au]

I'm sure more learned people will comment on your gear, but if you're going to carry all of that you'll give up before you get started.

Could you get something like a 40l pack for your wife so its shared out a bit.

You could also consider hiring some of the gear from somewhere like Holiak hire so you can try before you outlay too much.

I'd be doing the day walk from a car supported base first, as you have suggested.

Some areas that you could set up a camp and do some pleasant walks would be near Murrindindi falls, the Tallarook State Forest, the Wombat state forest near Daylesford, or the Brisbane Ranges near Geelong

[pinarello]

i agree with jcr au: if you intent to carry everything for all 3 of you there is not much fun left. it might work out for one or two nights, but longer tracks are not gonna be manageable in my opinion. i think there's something like a guideline as to how much weight one should/can carry in relation to his/her own body weight. please correct me if i am mistaken but i think it goes along the lines that a pack-weight of 1/4 of your own body weight is pretty ok to carry, while one gets to the upper limit if to carry about 1/3 of your own body weight. of course these are just rough guidelines and every individual has a different comfort zone.

i recently walked the ot with a pack of 17. something kg and i wouldn't want to carry any more than that. at the same time i felt well equipped, meaning i didn't take anything with me, that i regarded as useless.

in regards to the equipment others are gonna be more competent in answering.

cheers

[Son of a Beach]

I'd second the recommendation to get a mid sized pack for your wife. You can still carry the greater amount of gear but she will need more than twenty litre to carry her fair share on multi-day walks in order to avoid ruining your enjoyment by having too much weight in your own pack.

My opionion only of course. Note that there are some experienced people with specialist gear who are able to get by on small packs in some circumstances.

[cherish]

Thank you guys for your feedback.

Is there a tent out there that will be better than WE i-explore? Keeping weight and cost in mind.

[Drifting]

Here's our set-up, for 2 adults and a child. I can't see how you'd go for less space and still have everything you need.

My pack: WE Karajini (90lt)
Wife's Pack: Mont Pioneer (75lt)
Laura (Aged 6) pack: Kathmandu day pack

Tent:
Coleman Extreme Phad (which is for sale) OR
Hilleberg Nallo 4 GT
NOTE: both of these tents have vestibules, which is important IMHO when hiking with kids

Sleeping mats: Exped Downmat 9 (too heavy, but soooooooo nice) I'd go for a prolite if I was buying it all again.

Sleeping bags- We had to cut corners here due to a) cost and b) the worry that liquids would get into down bags.
Me: The North Face Mammoth (I'm hefty)
Wife: Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 (an outstanding bag, and I'd take one over a down bag. Also, at little over 1 kg, I wish I'd gotten one for the kid too)
Kid: TNF Blue Ridge (fits to 5 foot/1.5 metres, good to -7 with a thermal insert and clothes on)

Stove: I got a kovea moonwalker, which is heavy, but stable. I was going to get an ultralight titanium job, but both the guy in the store and my wife shot me down, and they felt these were too unstable for using around kids.


Here's my experience with the stuff you've listed:

I-Explore tent (to fit all three of us) TOO SMALL! FOR 3 PEOPLE YOU NEED A FOUR MAN TENT. STUPID, I KNOW.
OP Strezlecki 80L (which will be the pack I will be using to carry all the stuff) If the family not liking the hiking bit, I can still go ahead myself. Intend to work towards multiday hike such as OT, etc. NOT MY CUP OF TEA, BUT THEN I'M DIFFERENT TO THE HORDES THAT LOVE OP PACKS
Camelbak Helena 20L (which my wife will carry, and it is also the daypack that she uses for our normal bushwalking) WAYYYYYY TOO SMALL- REMEMBER- KIDS NEED 2-3 TIMES THE CLOTHES YOU NEED, AND IN THE END THEIR GEAR ENDS UP WEIGHING NEARLY AS MUCH AS YOURS. WHEN I CARRY ONLY MY STUFF AND MY DAUGHTERS, MY PACK WEIGHS IN AROUND 21KG.
OP Bushlite 700 x2 (for the adults) NO COMMENT, OTHER THAN THEY ARE NOT WATERPROOF, AND THAT CAN BE A PROBLEM WITH KIDS (OR ARE THEY?) AND YOU CAN GET STUFF WAY CHEAPER FROM THE US
OP Sac 2 (for my daughter) something she could also use for her school camps down the track.
Thermarest Prolite x3 (GOOD CALL)
Camelbak bladder 3L x2
Usual clothing (ie rainwear, warmwear, etc)
Maybe the rocket pocket (not sure it is suitable for us) (DEFINITELY NOT STABLE ENOUGH FOR USE AROUND A KID)
Food (KIDS LIKE THIS )
Any other things, that are not coming to my mind right now.

Do you think I can fit all our stuff between my wife's daypack and the OP pack? Will it be too heavy for me if i could fit it in the pack? NO AND YES

Also, any ideas where we can start our camping to test out our gear? I am located at Burwood East, Vic. Thanks in advance. TAWONGA HUTS IN THE BOGONG HIGH PLAINS OUTSTANDING HIKE AND HUTS FOR SHELTERV IF YOU NEED THEM. LOTS OF BRUMBIES TO SEE TOO.

If I had to do it all over again I'd buy Montbell ultralight sleeping bags and prolite mats and keep the rest of the gear.

Let me know if I can help more.

[cherish]

Hi Drifting

Thank you for your comprehensive reply.

How did your daughter fare on your trips? How many days do you usually do with your family? How many kms do you cover in a day? Just trying to gauge. So far on our bushwalks, my daughter has done the longest distance approx 7km and time 3hrs. Highest difficulty (rated medium) was the Grand canyon to Pinnacle at the Grampians.

Re: montbell UL sleeping bags, do you mean the UL Down Hugger 15F? After I posted, i was looking at the Marmot Pinnacle from a price point (since I am working from a budget) and also i think the specs are similar to the OP Bushlite 700. Looking at your suggestion, the Montbell above is also pretty good.
For my daughter, now i am thinking Marmot Trestle 15, so i can buy it from US altogether. What do you think?

Re: tent, where would you get a Nallo 4 GT? On the hilleburg website its almost AUD$900.

[Drifting]

The Nallo GT just costs that much. It's worth it, but painful.

I had real problems finding a good tent. If you are not a large family (I'm a big guy) and you are not gonig out in Winter or into the Southwest of Tassie, I reckon a Coleman Phad would do you- they are discontinued now but I'm pretty sure they can still be had new on ebay. We had big problems finding a suitable tent for us- there's just not a lot of 3-person tents around that will actually fit three people.

Big Agnes makes a tent called the Copper Spur- it's three season, but it weighs something like 2.4 kg, and while it's dear, it's no where as expensive as the Hilleberg.

I'd go shopping on http://www.moontrail.com, http://www.campmor.com, http://www.rei.com, http://www.backcountry.com and see what's on offer in that size. The problem is, most 3-4 man tents are too big for practical backpacking where only two people are carrying any weight. That's why I ended up dropping the big bucks on the Hilleberg.

I used to know a guy that field tested Marmot stuff- this was years ago- but he was the most exerienced outdoorsman I've ever met, and he loved their stuff, so that's a good enough endorsement for me.

Laura goes well on trips- when she was 3 she hiked 11k, but the last three were on Daddy's shoulders, so that's not practical. But our biggest worry with her is keeping it enjoyable, so we try to keep it to short trips now, with lots of play time. I go for between 1 and 7 km on average in a day, through she can do much more. I am always careful not to over do it with her, because she doesn't understand the "I'm going to be dead tomorrow if I keep going" concept, and rather will just walk until she drops. And when she drops, there aint no getting her back up without a fight, which makes it not fun for anyone.

Bribe heavily with chocolate. A full mouth issues no whinges.

Also, remember that she'll sleep like a log when she gets there, and she might need some of those night pants thingies for kids that wet beds- a pee'd on sleeping bag is pretty disastrous. You have to remember that you'll potentially be bringing out a pee-soaked nappie though- weight around 700g.

Boots have been a problem for kids, but Mountain Designs is selling them now at reasonable prices. We've always got Laura's from http://www.llbean.com , but I'm not 100% happy with them and might try Mountain Designs next.

There's a whle series of books for Tassie called bushwalking for families- you ought to see if there's the equivalent in Victoria- they are like gold.

[Drifting]

Also, remember it's difficult for little girls to pee in the woods. Laura and I have yet to perfect a technique, and there's been a bit of boot-wetting in the past (and my leg once). A fallen log of the right thickness is handy.

[cherish]

Also, remember it's difficult for little girls to pee in the woods. Laura and I have yet to perfect a technique, and there's been a bit of boot-wetting in the past (and my leg once). A fallen log of the right thickness is handy.

Thanks will keep that in mind.

So far after much discussions with my wife, it has been decided that we will trial hiking via car camping near bushwalking trails, so at the moment based on the many replies (thank you everyone), here is my gear list for now.

Tent - Black Wolf Mojave SG4 (will have to save up for the Nallo 4GT which looks good when we transition to hiking)
Sleeping bags - Either Marmot Pinnacle or Montbell UL Down Hugger (15F) depending on whether wife likes the full zip or 3/4 zip. daughter getting Marmot Trestle 15.
Sleeping mats - Thermarest Prolite Pro x3
Stove - We may decide on the Kovea Moonwalker instead of getting a 2burner stove from Anaconda (as we dont wanna have a tarp shelter for the kitchen so maybe easier to cook in the tent when it is raining) Btw, drifting what pots and pans do you and can you use on this stove?
Packs - For now will be our camelbaks as we will be doing walks from basecamp, later we will decide what we need.
Water - Camelbak hydration bladder, 3L x2, 2L for the little one.
Thermals - Icebreakers which we accumulated already over the last couple of years.
Rainwear - Wife & Daughter cape jacket (Anaconda), my old waterproof but not breathable 17yo jacket from my cadet days.
Boots - We have adequate footwear, but will check out MD for kids boots. I notice that my daughter has been slipping alot on wet grass and rocks with her runners.
Food - not an issue at the moment since we have the car but will need to find out what we can cook on the Moonwalker compared to a normal 2 burner stove that we originally were going to get.
Gaiters - Do we need gaiters for what we wanna do in the short term?
Cutlery - From home for now. Then maybe STS aluminium set.

Anything that i missed. Hopefully I have some sort of balance between budget, getting the right gear and not having to replace too much when transitioning to hiking down the track.

[Drifting]

I use an el-cheapo stainless steel billy for everything, and do a lot of one-pot meals. I'm getting right into freezer-bag cooking too.