Never never

[nakedape]

Hi all,

We're hoping to walk from Mt Ironstone to the OT via the never never at Xmas - any one done this & bout how long did it take? Also be interested in alternative start points - e.g. Lake Ada (general area).

Cheers
Nakedape

[Liamy77]

hope you like the odd leach!...
been too long since i have done it to give you reliable times etc... but thats my main memory... My mate picking off the latest bunch of free loaders mutterin " now i know why its called the Never Never!"
I love the area though... bear grylls wouldnt starve there i guess...

[eggs]

For half the journey starting from Lake MacKenzie (delivered to site by a bushwalkers bus) see this report http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=3434
Also check out Dave Nobles photo reports - he has done the trip several times.

[Son of a Beach]

We started from the Moses Creek track (to Junction Lake) at the end of the Mersey Forest Road when we did the Never Never.

[ghosta]

We did the Moses Creek track- Never Never-Lees Paddocks- out, circuit about 6 years ago, over 4 days- staying at Junction Lake Hut, Kia Ora Hut and Lees Hut.

The Moses Creek track starts about 1.5 km from where the Lees Paddock track starts on the Mersey Forest Rd, so only one vehicle is needed.

The Moses Creek track ends at Junction Lake. (Day1)
Then through the Never Never (no track) to Hartnet Falls, cross the Mersey on to the track connecting to the Overland track. We followed through to Kia Ora Hut (Day 2)
Then we backtracked south about halfway to Ducane where a track runs down to the Mersey and followed the river North through various paddocks until we reached Lees Paddocks and Hut (Day 3)
Then out to the car via Lees Paddocks Track. (Day 4)

We went with our two children, about 12 and 16yo, videotaped a lot, so we have great memories on DVD. It was one of the most beautiful walks Ive done. Day 3 was especially beautiful.

I havent been in the area for a while now although our oldest son is organising another Overland Track trip before Xmas with an overnight practice run on the Arm River Track to Pelion in a few weeks time. We intend staching a cache near Pelion with some beer, plum pudding and other luxuries to enjoy on the Overland Track trek...we did the same thing years ago when the kids were at Primary School (minus beer) to reduce the load as the kids couldnt carry much. But this time Im determined to have a couple of beers (at least) at Pelion.

[walkinTas]

Yes. That is the way I went too. Very interesting walk (see report). Going up the same valley as the Moses track there are several waterfalls - three with names. tastrekker talks about these on his blog. On the Never-Never there are three more. Then at the OLT end of the Never-Never on the Mersey, there are four more falls. I went from Kia Ore down to Lees and back to the car at the end of the Moses Crk Trk. On that route there are five more falls. I didn't get to them all.

[corvus]

We started from the Moses Creek track (to Junction Lake) at the end of the Mersey Forest Road when we did the Never Never.

That is the way we have done it in the past but I am looking at doing a circuit walk from Ada via Talleh Lgoons lake Fanny to Dixons Kingdom and back ,
You could head in this direction drop down Jaffa Vale pick up the Adelaide track on past Meston ,Junction Lake and on to the Never Never.
This would be a bit easier than from Ironstone as you would have some pads and tracks to follow.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

Yes have done the never never a couple of times, most recently (about 6 years ago) as part of a similar route to the one you are intending... we did Higgs Track to St. Clair via the never never... great walk.

About 2 days from ironstone area (3 for us as we waited out the weather at ironstone hut for a day) to Dixons Kingdom. Ritters (?) track (route) easy to follow most of the way although we managed to lose it between not far past long tarns and zion (?) gate. James river was a bit hairy getting across too as it had been raining heavily for days.

About 2 days from Walls area to Windy Ridge also. Meston is a great campsite, junction hut is nice by the river too. As for the never never itself, basically stay north of the river until McCoy falls and then south thereafter to Hartnett. There is a pad for a fair way along the north bank and all the way along the south bank. Apparently the best way to cross is over a log above McCoy’s… both times I have descended the mud cliffs at the falls themselves and crossed below them. For us who are pretty slow it took about a half day through the NN both times - clark and mccoy's falls are worth spending some time at.

Yes leeches are prolific in the NN, as are snakes depending on when you go. As a less leech-infested alternative you could try artemis/traveler range. I haven’t been through that way so can’t give any advice but am told it’s a nicer a(and drier) lternative.

[abowen]

walkinTas wrote about several waterfalls through the Never Never and down along the Mersey. I got to see most one year when we had a fair downpour at Junction Lake before we commenced the Never Never leg. We even got to see Feather Falls in full flow cascading off the southern end of Cathedral plateau. Often thought that if you wanted to create a great waterfalls circuit walk, then this would have to be one of the best in the State. Have to have a bit of rain though to get them really going.
Cheers
Andrew

[nakedape]

Thanks all,

We've been into Junction - Cathedral via the Moses track & have journeyed from the OT to Lee's paddock via Reg Wadley (Sooo pretty) too. We are really keen on exploring the area Sth & W of the Walls & OT respectively - so Mt Ironstone (Higgs trk) would just be access and the OT a way to get back to a bus. Still, we're better informed for your contributions and have extra opinion to help the planning. We'll keep you guys in the loop re how we get on.


ps - we both love snakes (several memorable encounters at Junction/Cathedral) but the Misses is not so keen on leeches

[Paul]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me the background as to how/why/after who, the area between Junction Lake and Hartnett Falls is known as "The Never Never".

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Paul.

[Liamy77]

i always thought Never Never was slang for aussie bush / outback..... not really heard it used in tassie though.... theres nothing in the chapman guide place name bit on it either.... dunno for sure but thats all i got on it..

[johnw]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me the background as to how/why/after who, the area between Junction Lake and Hartnett Falls is known as "The Never Never".

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Paul.

Looks like it may be from Greek mythology as with the mountain names in that region. From http://anpsa.org.au/APOL17/mar00-4.html:
"The land of Greek Myths was entered from The Never Never. We walked to Pelion (home of the centaurs) Gap before climbing Mount Ossa (Greek Mountain)." ...and so on. I can't attest to the accuracy but it sounds reasonable.

[ghosta]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me the background as to how/why/after who, the area between Junction Lake and Hartnett Falls is known as "The Never Never".

Thanks for any information you can provide.

Paul.

Looks like it may be from Greek mythology as with the mountain names in that region. From http://anpsa.org.au/APOL17/mar00-4.html:
"The land of Greek Myths was entered from The Never Never. We walked to Pelion (home of the centaurs) Gap before climbing Mount Ossa (Greek Mountain)." ...and so on. I can't attest to the accuracy but it sounds reasonable.

Im not sure your quote actually illustrates a link with Greek mythothogy, all it says is the party went through the Never Never.
The most likey explanation is the use of the term Never Never to describe an area trackless outback area as in "We of the Never Never" as other have alluded to.
My guess is we will never know for certain....it may have been simply someone saying "Ill Never Never go back there" and the name stuck.

[walkinTas]

I like your suggestion johnw. Put together with the untracked outback concept it makes perfect sense. If any Australian, aware of the greek mythology, walk down the Mersey from Junction Lake to the OLT, I can see they would quickly marry the two concepts. Sounds entirely reasonable! ....we crossed the never never on the way to Pelion Gap and Mt Ossa.

[ghosta]

Following your line of thought-

If I was to write a blog which said "I entered the Biblical Lands throuht the Never Never. We walked to the Wals of Jerusalem and Herods Gate....etc" that woud be enough for you to argue that the term Never Never had biblical origins?

Have to grin at the logic!

[walkinTas]

I didn't actually read Johnw's link.

So ghosta, this might help (might not either )

never-never land
1. any remote, sparsely populated place: e.g., He grew tired of life in the city and now lives out in the middle of never-never somewhere.
2. imaginary: e.g., never-never land. Australia Decoded

never-never land
noun
1. an unreal, imaginary, or ideal state, condition, place, etc.
2. any remote, isolated, barren, or sparsely settled region. dictionary.com

never-never land
A fantasy land, an imaginary place, as in I don't know what's gotten into Marge she's way off in never-never land . This expression gained currency when James Barrie used it in Peter Pan (1904) for the place where Peter and the Lost Boys live. However, in the second half of the 1800s Australians already were using it for vast unsettled areas of their continent ( the outback ), and there the term became popular through Mrs. Aeneas Gunn's We of the Never Never (1908). In Australia it still refers to northwest Queensland or northern Australia in general. Elsewhere it simply signifies a fantasy or daydream. dictionary.com

1833 - W. H. BRETON Excursions 213 refers to Aboriginals as "The Never-never blacks" so-called because they have hitherto kept aloof from the whites.

1882 - Alexander Jenyns Boyd's book "Old Colonials" has the line “What on earth is to be done in this wretched Never Never country?”

1891 - The Never Never: is the name of a vast, remote area of the Australian Outback, as described in Barcroft Boake's poem "Where the Dead Men Lie".

Out on the wastes of the Never Never -
That's where the dead men lie!
There where the heat-waves dance forever -
That's where the dead men lie!
(Boake's Poem)

1896 - Henry Lawson wrote a screenplay based on Barcroft Boake's poem. The play was called "THE AUSTRALIAN CINEMATOGRAPH".

1901 - The Never-Never Country: is a poem by Henry Lawson (Lawson's Poem)

1902 - "We of the Never Never" is an autobiographical novel by Jeannie Gunn (pen name Mrs. Aeneas Gunn). Although published as a novel, it is an account of the author's experiences in 1902 at Elsey Station near Mataranka, Northern Territory. Wikipedia.

1904 - Neverland: (also spelled Never Land or expanded as Never Never Land) is a fictional world featured in the works of J. M. Barrie and those based on them. It is the dwelling place of Peter Pan, Tinker Bell, the Lost Boys, and others. Wikipedia. Pan is the name of the Greek god that ruled all natural forces. He was god over forests, flocks of animals, and their keepers, like shepherds and herders, and was represented with the head, chest, and arms of a man and the legs, horns, and ears of a goat.

Edit: Chronological order. Edit: more additions to timeline.

[johnw]

"The land of Greek Myths was entered from The Never Never"
Yes, in hindsight (wonderful tool of wisdom) I have probably taken that out of context. After a lot of googling I can't find any references that would link it to Greek Mythology either.

[walkinTas]

You missed it John, I put the link to Greek Mythology in for you. Neverland, Peter Pan, Pan, Greek God.

OT: (By the way, that book I pointed to in the W.H. Breton reference has some interesting reading.)

[Paul]

Thanks for the info - very interesting.

Paul.

[johnw]

You missed it John, I put the link to Greek Mythology in for you. Neverland, Peter Pan, Pan, Greek God.

OT: (By the way, that book I pointed to in the W.H. Breton reference has some interesting reading.)

Thanks wT, I was a bit slow on the uptake yesterday I think . That Breton book appears to be meticulously scanned from a copy held (originally) by the University of California. Must have taken quite a while to do it.

Another thought on the naming origins of the (Tasmanian) Never Never. It might be worth an enquiry to the Nomenclature Board. I did that once before about another location and they were very obliging. I'll try and dig up the email I received from one of the people there.

[walkinTas]

OT: Be warned, you could spend hours here - full text of rare books. This one for example! Or This one! And this one, which is sort of on topic.

And then use an automatic book scanner to do the scanning. Can even handle very delicate books.